I know a number of you have experienced this first hand, and I have second hand to date, having a few more clients go on the past due list than normal.

Well tonight, at our school board meeting I had to decide on one of three options, which would essentially put 1 or 2 teachers who I know, who have taught my kids, out of a job. Talk about gut wrenching.

We went with the lesser of all evils. Instead of taking a big bite of crap, we took a little one. The person I affected the most was in the room, and I feel so bad. She left before I had a chance to talk to her.

I really wish that the State would fund adequate education, as mandated by the State Constitution. While I realize that I am a politician (albeit I have done my best to be the most politcially incorrect one out there, as I doubt many others have essentially called someone a pussy and told them to man up and deal with life in an official meeting), I have a great amount of disdain for those at the upper levels in our government. I can have an effect on a small community, yet I have no control of those who make decisions in the food chain above me.

Worst night I've had in years. Sorry for getting sand in my mangina. Time for a beer.

man i know what you feel like we just sent out rif notices to 24 teachers. i hope we get to keep some of them. when you have to cut over a million from a 17million+ budget after cutting 800,000 last year. a lot of good friend gone.
we are now looking at other staff. it is the kids that end up on the short end.

Larry,

I know you know the feeling, and I'm sorry that you know what I mean. It sucks.

I had to lay off 6 guys(30%) back in October. Not an easy thing to do when you have worked with them for a long time. Sorry you had to do that Dogfish

In the Snoqualmie Valley School District they are going to lay off several teachers and also cut out middle school sports.............what's next, each child must bring a desk and chair from home to sit in?

Dogfish-

I had to do my lay-offs last spring - I really enjoy that "hinkey" feeling when I have to give "the speech". NOT! None of those people are currently working as far as I know.

My wife works in HR for our county and is responsible for benefits for lay-offs and retirement. Last month she had to process 100+ employees. Due to new legislation (federal), she also has to go back to 9/08 and rework COBRAs for all employees laid off or fired. Due to predicted budget shortfalls, the next round of lay-offs will "only" be about 60 people.

We should be lynching people on Wall street and raiding their bank accounts. We should hold their servants in government accountable too. "They say I'm a dreamer, well I'm not the only one." I don't think Lennon intended my sentiment though.

It's bad all over...just not AS bad here in Wa.

It does suck even more, by putting a face to a statistic....

Mf

im getting a raise, so i guess i have nothing to complain about.....i dont think the crappy economy has hit my area, not sure if it will.

Yeah, I've heard the price per pound goes up as summer approaches, just pray they never legalize it and ruin the profit margin.

In our district we had to cut almost 300K out of a 6 million budget. We managed to due it without RIFing anyone, primarily because our sup't. got the ball rolling by voluntarily giving up 6 days. The rest of the administrative staff followed, then the certified staff, the classified, the coaches, etc. So, everyone will get a little less next year, but no one will get the shaft. The biggest budget reduction we've had since I've been on the board, (we've had a chronic enrollment decline) but the least painful.

I know exactly how you feel Andy. Sorry for your rough night.

In January we had to lay off 4 people, out of 8 production hands. One had been at the company 4 years longer than me. I went to each of their offices, sat with them, and gave them their notices. I hated it, it still feels bad. These people were all supporting their families making 50-60K salaries, one was a single mother. I felt like puking for a week.

My wife is one of the 24 larryb talked about. The thing that pisses me off most about the state/school districts and their lay-offs, is the seniority system. It seems like in every district there are a lot of teachers, who are past retirement age, are practically phoning it in, and they are pulling the biggest salaries. Then you have your new hires, the teachers in their 20s and 30s who not only give a crap, they take part in all the extra-curricular stuff and make a bigger difference in more kids lives. Not only that, their salaries are smaller. I understand rewarding years of good service, but dammit, this is America, when you no longer produce you should be put out to pasture (IMO).

That is a reason I like small business way more than government or corporate work. Getting paid or keeping your job because you earned it makes so much more sense to me. When I did my lay offs, I kept two who had been with us less than 2 years, but their upside is better and they just got more done than our longest tenured employee.

I gave a long lecture to my interns a few weeks ago about how a government job is the least safe thing to have since you can get laid off no matter if you are the best at your job or the worst. The only safe job is one where your boss lays awake at night worrying about what life would be like without you, and can do what it takes to keep you.

Rant over.

today i'm going into work to sign my severance paperwork, then it's into the unemployment line for me.

it's bad enough with the economy right now, even worse to be in a dying industry.

When I took on my first manager's job at a company bleeding red, I had to lay off my nephew. His wife was 7 months pregnant with their first kid. It never gets easy, especially when the person is productive and you know when things pick up you won't be able to bring them back as they have another job or have moved.
It's a big part of the reason I turned down the manager's job where I am now. Too old and tired to look in the face of a valued, good, productive employee with kids that run to your desk to say 'hi' when they stop by the office and have to tell them to pack up their stuff.

We cut one office staff person through retirement, ended an Asst Principal position as our school remodel will be done next year, and our Sup/Principal gave up 10 days. Cuts were made from the top down.

Tough one.

We had some kids there who actually echoed what RR was saying. One young woman said that "there are a lot of the new teachers out there that teach with so much more enthusiasm, and you can see that they really care and it it difficult to see them possibly lose their job, while a few of the older teachers just show up and collect a check". This was from a 13 year old young lady, one of Hunter's good buds..

Poor teachers, It blows my mind that we can make cuts from what already is too little....
This economy sucks. I feel very fortunate in that my company appears to be bucking the tide. We are actually hiring Geologists and Engineers right now in our Seattle office.

The title and escrow busines is also picking up. It remains to be seen if it lasts but the new orders are both refis and sales. We've hired one new person and may hire a couple more.
I've been working 1/2 time since the first of the year (mutual decision) and have gone to full time (arrggh) a couple of days a week.

Definately noticed a positive trend in the real estate business the past month or two. Not slammed but busy for the first time in a year, think the worst is behind us but many people are hurting right now and I feel their pain...

this prob wont come out right how i write it but...

the High School i graduated from had a lot of money issues, rather than laying off teachers they opted to cut ALL of the after school sports...it may just be me, but i feel that is the best decision there is....i dont have kids, i dont mind paying for kids education thru taxes, as these kids will be running the world when we are older...but i do belive that the after school sports should be held up more with the Parents...there is no reason why some of the away games cant be carpooled more by parents instead of busses...and so on...after all kids go to school to learn...that is the most important thing...i did a lot of things to pay for me to swim when i was in High school...none of it was funded by the High School, i mowed lawns and raked leaves, washed cars and took up a night job at a pizza place, just to support my swimming habit...put some of these kids to work...i got weeds to pull in my backyard i would pay the neighbor kids to pull gladly..but these kids are lazy now a days....c

I don't think a very high percentage of the obese kids are volunteering to play sports.

I was waiting for the politician/union link to be made. Very well said. It's not just on the state level with the teachers union either.

Are you joking??? You cut admin jobs and the world will come to an end. We all know that they are what makes the world go round....

Hunter mowed 2 acres with the DR Filed mower today. He earned his $15. It isn't lazy kids, it is lazy parents.

i totally agree with lazy parents making lazy kids...i just think that the parents should pay for sports...my parents had to and i had to help...i dont think that the obesity in children has anything to do with it...their parents are the ones that need to motivate them...im not saying to not have the after school sports, just for the parents to pay for them more than they do now...i didnt pop out some kids and expect everyone else to pay for thier entertainment...not trying to be rude, just think they need to step up...after all education is what school is for...c

Plenty of schools have gone "Pay to Play" for their sports. It is pretty easy to do in districts that have higher median incomes. If the district has 20 or 30% free and reduced lunches (i.e. welfare) it is much more difficult to do. Again, it comes down to the parents and what they can give up so their kids can play the sport. My wife's family lives in Irvine, CA and they are a Play to Pay school. The median income in the area is pretty high, and at the beginning of the school year they have to pay for everything. They fill out a check list and turn it in when they register, it has dances, sports, clubs, cheerleading, everything. My wife's uncle writes a check for a 3 or 4 thousand each school year.

So, if your stance is the poor kids shouldn't get to play sports, then that makes sense.

no i dont think poor kids shouldnt get to play sports, just think Pay to Play is a good idea...when you are looking at laying off teachers and you still have sports being paid for by the schools that should be something they look at...i didnt have money, and you could pretty much call me poor when i was younger but we came up with the cash for me to travel for swimming...belive me, i know what it feels like to qualify for Olympic Trials and not be able to afford to go...had we had more time we could have raised the money...poor kids work harder IMHO and can make it happen...most schools the richer kids are the ones who play most of the sports to begin with...c

Chuck -

Open the .pdf

Copy the text

Paste the text in the reply box... unless it's 50 pages worth... then we'll just take your word for it.

What pays for things like JV sports, music programs and other extra-curricular activities?

I'll give ya a hint... conservatives hate them.

I hate to side track, but I will anyway. Sorry to hear about the cuts in Washington. The schools down here in California have had a steady diet of cuts for the last 40 years it seems. Hankster can probably spin that up to a problem with the democratic party but that is another topic. When I was growing up the class sizes were in the 30s, teachers being on the bubble has not been uncommon. But my real question is Dogfishes thread heading, how many of us are actually getting hit by the current financial situation. For my wife things are tenuous we are watching and waiting. For me it is an uptick my boss is retiring and I am taking over his position of running field operations for a construction company that does almost 300 million a year... so kind of a mixed bag. So come July 1, 2009 I am changing my screen name to sir and you may address me as such.

Wife's job is secure, juvenile probation officer. I took a $20,000 pay cut this year. No effect on me.

Poor economy = non-traditional loans. Loansharks are busting more kneecaps.

It is definitely affecting me directly in two different ways. #1 is that my firm does a lot of real estate development engineering and since no one is loaning on real estate, no one is developing it. Every now and then someone wants to use their cash feserves to plat out some lots, but not nearly like a couple of years ago. So, we have pushed hard on the other markets (commercial, industrial tennant improvements, and a little public works) and managed to keep body and soul together. But it has been a pretty stressful few months.

SHAZAM!!! While I was typing in this thread, I just got a phone call from a site manager that a major tennant improvement project that I had a proposal out on got approved. This project will fund 20% of my firms gross for the next 2 years.

#2 is that I am currently remodeling a home, and since so many of us are looking for work, I am getting good pricing and great service on my little projects. I have a plumber installing my hot water heater, and gas lines for it, the range, 2 fireplaces, and the pool right now, and his bid came back below my budget number. First time in the entire project that happened!

Rocket, the developers that have available funds are getting the best GC bids I have seen in decades, people around here are so hungry, the bigger subcontractors are buying jobs right now just so they don't lose valuable crew members, once they are gone they are gone.. Normally after our pricing comes in we have to "value engineer''cutting scope to fit into our owners budget, now we are doing just the opposite adding scope to fill the owners budget. Keep in mind these owners already have the money if the lenders would just open their doors a little it would make great strides in getting construction rolling. As those who know, know construction is the bell weather of the economy...

One of my sons lives near Columbus, Ohio, and his sparring partner is a real estate agent that is swamped with business. first time home buyers mostly but you have to fill up the top of the funnel first.
We had the biggest order day, both sales and refis, Monday since the real estate market tanked. Still not sure we've hit the bottom price wise but things seem to be on the up swing.

The issue with some of the lenders, especially the community banks, is that what were once "guidelines" for the percentage of capital employed in lending for acquisition and development (A&D) loans has now become a number written in stone.

An example is that we could lend up to 500% of our capital (equity) if times were good, but as markets slowed we would move back down to that 300% figure. Essentially based on that we could lend as much as $250 million, and then cut back to $150 million as it slowed.

Now we can ONLY lend $150 million, and because we have a number of stale developments where things have halted somewhat due to markets crashing in Whatcom County and the Oregon coast, keeping our use of capital at 374% in A&D loans ($187 million), we can't add new projects until we clear off at least $37 million in old projects, plus the amount of whatever new projects are out there that want to be added.

Now this is an oversimplification of the actual process, but it is the general idea. Our little bank is on the low end of the scale as far the employment of capital at 374%. There are many banks that are above 500%, so that is partly why banks haven't opened the purse strings. The other is why would they invest in a soft economy when there are already so many stalled developments out there.

The solution is to sell the glut of projects to first time home buyers, which is happening, but that takes time. The media is also of little help as they instill a bunker mentality, scaring people into inaction. Also, there are those who are trying to time the market, which few will do successfully.

Not just one issue. Many.

Andy, you have given me a better understanding of lending practices I agree timing the real estate market is like trying to time the stock market. It is generally a mistake .With income property it is more of a gut feeling, interest rates are at historic lows. Tons of real estate on the market priced to sell. I think it is a pretty good time to buy real estate. I continued to buy in the stock market through the mess and am in recovery in more ways than one. If I happen to find the perfect real estate I will pick it up. Recovery hurts the people sitting on the sidelines waiting for the perfect time.

Andy gave me that speech on the phone the other day and it really helped me out. I, in turn used the knowledge to explain banking behavior to some contractors. They were impressed that I was so smart about that stuff, thanks Andy.

Cash is king right now. I am involved with some projects where the current owners/proponents are realizing that they don't have the horsepower to complete, and they are going to have to look for someone with cash. Unfortunately, all the hard work, sleepless nights, and brutal meetings are going to end with them getting raped by someone with the cash to complete the work.

I had another project that just ran into a bunch of problems during construction. They had to go back to the bank a couple of times during the process. The second time the bank said no, which basically would have killed the project. The owner realized this and told the banker either he got the money, or they became owners of the problems. The banker realizing he had no choice went in and stood up to his board. They relented, the project turned out to be a success, selling lots right after recording, and the banker who was about to be fired, got offered a senior partnership at his bank.

Did you notice that one of the banks you were talking about was taken over by the Feds last Friday? Be prepared for a few more.

Yeah, I did notice that.

I had heard that rumor a couple of weeks ago, and the rumor was true.

Some banks, like ours, are offering excellent discounted pricing and terms on financing lots in our inventory to clear out the "deadwood". This financing usually only applies to lots currently in the inventory of the bank, not some other lot you find on the street.

Our lots, for example, can be financed at 4.99% fixed, 25% down (cash), 30 year amortization with a 5 year call. 1% fee. Compare this to a lot at 8%, 2 year note, if not in our inventory.

Other requirements are a credit score of 675+, DTI under 40%, and the lots are required to have an appraisal.

There are some good deals out there for folks looking to build in the future.

Spots I know of include Bellingham, Clatsop County, OR, Westport beach access lots. Just sayin'.

Explain 5 year call?

balloon

Explain 5 year call?

Although the loan is amoritized over 30 years, it is due in 5-as in a balloon payment.

call = balloon