That's a fantastically irrelevant post...not that it's out of character by any means, in fact, it's fantastically in character...

Fish on...

Todd

You are absolutely correct. I know a homeless guy, who lives in his truck and depends on a friend who lives and works on the same property. His recent hospital visits were at Valley General, compliments of taxpayers.

He doesnt have a job. Therefore, no employer can be taxed to pay his health benefits.
The only money he has, he spends on dope. The bottom line is, people like me, who dont have health insurance will spend more on insurance, than we do on health costs. It wont always be like that, but they will eventually find a way to wein me from my dependency on food and air.

if 47 miilion people didnt have auto insurance, would we be having that discussion? You would think that more than 47 million people die from starvation. We dont have social food care. Didnt they give that up in the Soviet Union?

If this is all about compassion, just let Obama tell us how much his govt health care coverage is going to cost the rest of us. From the program I saw on cnbc, the roundtable discussion, Doctor Frist, said the plan is worth 16-17,000 dollars per year. Sorry, but I cant pay more for health care than I do for a mortgage. One of those people said, americans will have to get use to spending less than 50% of their income on housing and transportation.

There are approximately 57-59 requirements in health insurance in washington state. Many of those requirements dont affect a single male, non smoker. That along with other mandates have reduced the level of competition in health insurance. Thats what it is. Its not health care. I pay cash for health care. But thats not good enough. They want access to my bank account. I dont want to pay for pregnancy care and viagra.
Just wait until the psychologists get the recognition on the government health care plan. Youll need 12 paid days of work to go see the shrink. The end result, will be less people in medicine and virtually no independent search for new medicine and other technology for early diagnosis. Rationing will become them vs us. 200,000 dollars for a premature baby or 200,000 for a heart transplant for a senior. And of course middle america will be forgotten, but the parents and future classmates at Sidwell Friends, will get the medical care they want.

Imagine having David Seuter decide your home should be demolished for the benefit of the city tax revenue. oh, that happened. I cant wait for the next Judge to decide who lives and who dies.

I didnt see any restrictions on members of the bar association.

Do you have anything to add or rebutt that doesn't require or start off with a personal insult? I could go there too, but your life before tackle isnt part of the debate.

I absolutely believe that socialized medicine WILL break the average worker's back. The little money most of us are able to now spend on enjoyment will be gone into the black abyss supporting the indigent. I'm baffled that anyone could think otherwise. Government can't run any damn thing efficiently, are you kidding me? Medical bills are ridiculously high now....no doubt about it....but some fools think that will DECREASE with government intervention!!!??? What?

I have come to the conclusion that the new accepted concept of "responsibility" is thoroughly investing every avenue available to get someone else to pay for one's choices/decisions. And coupled with that is the attitude of regarding one who chooses to live within their means and do without if they can't afford it as a chump. I've worked all my life and frankly I'm tired of supporting more and more leeches who choose to not make difficult choices. "Easy" has nothing to do with functioning as an adult, and I've already raised my children.....and no, I'm not interested in raising you and yours.

Insurance companies are not the villian, although the administration uses them as the villian. insurance companies write lots of policies for business, life, car, boat, flooding, earthquake. Yet we are complaining about insurance companies, for health insurance. If you want to know the true cost of medical insurance, you have to go back to every single expense, paid by everyone in the medical community.

None of those people work for free. Medical books can be over a hundred dollars for one book. Malpractice insurance is high due to excessive awards by a jury. Of course doctors have been ridiculed for high income. But would the same folks ridicule actors and pro-ball players who make 10 or 20 million per year. If people want to restrict what CEO and doctors make, dont forget about the very rich law firms.

The government will hire the same people from the now defunct health insurance industry and pay them just as much. You wont save a dime in the end.

If you want the best technology, you have to pay the price. Thru real competition, which we dont have, prices will come down, but only so far.... The rest is up to us. Drinking, drugs, overeating, bareback sex are just a few of the reasons some individuals make up for the bulk of the medical visits.

If you require medical insurance cover every itch, its going to cost a lot more. When people dont have any responsibility for the cost of care provided, like being billed for THREE attempts to put a needle in your arm, by a trainee, it just adds to the bill. The government RESTRICTS how many hospitals are allowed to have specific equipment, thus keeping the fees artificially high.

Part of the blame for skyrocketing health care in America can be blamed on the pharmaceutical industry.
Selling prescription drugs in Canada and Mexico at a fraction of what they cost US consumers, only hurts our health care bottom line.
Making a profit is one thing, holding US citizens hostage over prescription drugs is nothing short of wanton greed.

US citizens pay for R&D at the counter when they purchase and others control prices as they don't have to support the R&D. Not so sure that I care for it that way when my wifes cemo was a 1000 a week but I do understand the question on how do you pay for R&D another way?

In Mexico you go to the doc get script and aound the corner to the drug store. Doc appt will cost about 20 to 40 depending on situation. As Juan said in Mexico they utilize Darwin. If you are stupid enough to get prescription drugs and OD then the gene pool needs to be thinned because your not that bright. Kinda harsh way to look at it but it does reduce cost...............can't you see the PC folks in the US if this was our system. Talking heads would go crazy both L & C.

I work as a consultant to several large nonprofit research organizations. While most get some funding from drug companies, by far the largest proportion comes from the U.S. government via the National Institute of health. This has been true for at least the 30 years I have worked with them.
These nonprofits, like Fred Hutchinson Research Institute and The Benaroya Research Institute depend on federal grants and endowments for the vast majority of their funding. If the researcher comes up with a patentable product while working on a federal grant, that patent belongs to the federal government.
I am a firm believer in capitalism but the current system of pharmaceutical lobbyist pushing their addenda is wrong. Consider that the recent legislation to expand drug coverage under Medicare has a specific provision forbidding the govt to bargain for the best price. Where do you suppose that little gem came from? If you doubt the money the pharmaceuticals make just watch you TV during prime time and see how many pills they are pushing.

Here are some interesting numbers from 1999, I can only imagine this trend has accelerated in the past ten years. These are the bonuses paid to to[ executives of our 10 largest pharmacutical companies. If ypu want more data follow this:

http://www.actupny.org/reports/durban-licensing.html



$31,424,000


$15,159.000


$6,032,000


$16,486,000


$12,505,000


$4,381,000


$6,041,000


$4,093,000


$2,119,000


$2,366,000
$39,753,000


$38,983,000


$26,424,000


$22,061,000


$18,525,000


$16,272,000


$12,940,000


$11,779,000


$6,385,000


$5,042,000
$159,691,000


$107,115,000


$80,559,000


$250,681,000





$830,000


$33,667,000


$29,867,000


$104,506,000


$17,291,000

Which doesn't make sense to me. Why is big Pharma spending ad dollars trying to sell to me? I have no purchasing power. It's not like I can walk into my doc's office and say, "hey doc, I saw drug X on TV last night and I want some." I should trust my doctor to prescribe the drugs I need not what sounded sexy on the telly last night.

Of course the cynic in me realizes that Pharma is deviously trying to create a nation of hypocondriacs so we'll imagine the symptoms those advertised drugs will cure.

Spot on! I hate those f'n drug commercials. It perpetuates a false need.

Didn't say I liked the system. If you think it cost a 1000 to make a little bag of cemo then..........but that said if by profit or goverment we pay for R&D. Drugs sold outside US depending on patents and other bs are cheaper as this is not a factor. 3rd world countries get the same drugs much cheaper as they can not afford our prices.

I sorta look at this the same way as 30% of our hosp and doctors cost are covering people with no insurance or the ability to pay. Which is the thing that gets me the most. We are paying for drugs and health care all ( or most ) now one way or the other and it is all hidden and really sucks for low income and the non work place insured. To say access to health care and drugs are not a citizens right sounds good unless your sick and lack $$$$$$$$$ then it becomes BS......fast.

Point is to zoom in on one aspect of the system rather than all the parts does not work. Our greatest medical expenses are in our last 2 or three years of our lives when we become terminally ill...........which we all will get to go through. If you want to fix the health care cost then you have go after all aspects of the system not just the bloody drug companies jabbing us but all providers of all aspects of health care from birth to when we check out..........something we as a people don't seem to want to ( or can't ) get our arms around.

Or there is enough room for a Cranial Rectal Inversion I worked for the Fed (and retired) for 42 years, and from the "Inside" you do NOT want anything to do with it.

Kill 9 out of every 10 Lawyers and Presto-Changeo...the World becomes a better place.

I agree; and the performance they are rewarding is overcharging the American public. Hankster can you tell me you think an annual salary of $250,000,000 is reasopnable? The boards have absolutly no incentive to hold down such outrageous payments as they are aslo recipients of similar payment. It a good ole boy network financed by americas middle class.

Why are drugs so much cheaper in Mexico and Canada? Yes the exact same drug masxde in at the exact same factoiry is often 1/3 the price of what we pay in the USA.

I do not hate the drug companies - I hate their behaviour.

[quote=Hankster]High pay isn't limited to just the drug industry execs.

That you have right.

They don't get that kind of money unless they deliver the goods.

On that you are totally wrong.

Many of the execs that got the largest bonuses ran companies that lost money or even went bankrupt. They have seen their pay raise exponentially during good times and bad. I think they pay themselves that much for the same reason a dog licks his dick.

The oldest of adages in Business,is simplistic: "They're only benefits if you use them".

I've no qualm with the Private Sector paying wages in accords to it's profit margin,as those calls are none of my business. Where I begin to take issue,is when those wages are afforded via Gubment interaction(s),which is akin to kicking me in the nuts and running away with my wallet to pad same.

That dog won't/can't Hunt.

Invent the cure and charge in accordance.

Until then...STFUP.

Right.

Do you charge your employer?

Nice try.

I'm fraught with the bane of being exceedingly bright and it's a plight that I'm forced to deal with.

In other words...you cash them checks?

Zzzzzing...