http://www.komonews.com/news/local/60903862.html

So this 19 year old guy interupts some thieves stealing his stereo, he comes out with a rifle and shoots one in the head because he was reaching in his waste band. I am a CWP holder and hate thieves as much as the next guy but I think this was over the line. He is being charged with 2nd degree manslaughter, and I agree with the charges.

My car has been broken into several times, but everytime I run this scenario over in my head I cant imagine that I would actually kill the guy running away with my stereo, what do you think?

i would make sure he had a weapon. if he did he is fair game.

I would too, the problem I see is that the guy was running away carrying a 27lb speaker and supposedly he reached into his waste. Upon investigation it was found he had nothing on him but a screwdriver. Cops may get away with things like this but not 19 year old untrained kids.

I think this guy should see no jail time and thieves should be warned that if they are stealing, they have a good chance of being shot.

Maybe they will begin to think twice about stealing.

A Mosin Nagant headshot for the win!

Nice pull..


That's how I see it...

He'll walk. This world needs population control, sounds like a good start to me.

You don't want to be a guy caught depriving another guy of his tunes.

Charges should be dropped, and he should get two free shots at the other two accomplices who were in the get away car. If he nails them both, he should receive a marksmanship award and get a citizenship award in any case for helping to make the world a better place.

It's impossible to discourage stealing as long as it's illegal to shoot thieves. If more thieves are shot and killed, then there will be less stealing as most thefts are committed by repeat offenders.

Sg

Good shoot to me.

Actually I heard that the police report indicates the defendant was aiming to hit the thief in the legs or something, probably hoping to not have the 27 pound sub-woofer dropped and damaged, but accidentally hit the bad guy in the head. Personally I don't think we should hold that against him, especially if he can make good on the free shots I proposed in my earlier post.

Sg

+1

If you play with fire.... you might get burned!!!

If your going to steal, be prepared to pay the consequences

The thief is dead now, but I'm sure we'll hear what a great guy he was from his friends and family if this goes to trial......

Has anyone heard if charges have been filed against the other thieves that didn't get shot?

+ 1 on thieves get what they deserve.

That's when "drop " guns come in handy..not that I'm condoning this.

I think it was giving him the wood shampoo after shooting him that brought charges.

i don't know DF - i didn't see anything in the article that indicated he properly field dressed his kill

Pictures or it didn't happen.

Wood shampoo was completely unnecessary. Bullet hit him in the back of the head. Killing doesn't get much cleaner.

Come on Aunty, that Obama base of support remark was uncalled for and untrue. These kind a guys don't vote. The defendant may be prosecuted, but only because society is becoming dysfunctional. Society cannot function when it rewards lawbreakers and prosecutes citizens who take actions to defend society's presumed or alledged values, i.e., not stealing sht that don't belong to them.

Sg

Not sayin' I have much/any sympathy for thieves. Would like to see them get their day in court and be prosecuted. But Salmo, aren't some of "society's presumed or alledged [sic] values" also "innocent until proven guilty" and "right to trial by jury of one's peers"? Didn't the actions of this vigilante go against these presumed or alleged values? It could be argued that when we stop prosecuting vigilantes we are actually undermining the true values of our society.

Guaranteed that if some dude is running away with my speakers against my wishes he is dam sure guilty.

edited to add...I doubt that I woulda' pulled the trigger over a set of speakers as most people on this board know I am far more reserved than THAT.

R v. W. That gets us to another issue. He may actually be guilty. But do you really believe that death is the fitting punishment for stealing speakers? Does it seem right that whoever catches a criminal in the act gets to decide on the spot what punishment they deserve?

Edit to add: I didn't see your edit while I was typing my response. Seems like we are in agreement that death over a set of speakers is over the top.

Brant----I edited as you were posting.....but no I don't think death is the punishment for stealing...a good cane pole flogging or amputating the offending appendage seems more fitting.imho

Then a nice Pork roast and some Chianti.........

Can you just participate in a conversation without spouting off this kind of propaganda crap? It's getting tiring.

If I felt threatened I would defend myself. Other than that,shooting another human being is inexcusable. Have any of you ever seen a man get shot? I have. If you haven't I hope you never have to. It's easy to sit behind your computer and say shoot the thief bastards. I hate thieves as much as anyone but there is no way this was justified unless the guy's life was in jeopardy. Sounds to me like some snot nosed kid who watched one too many movies.

I think shooting at a thief should be expected when these guys steal. The mortal head shot at 70 yards with a Mosin Nagant was obviously a mistake.

Sometimes you have to speak in a language that is understood by those that are offending. You cant threaten hell to an atheist and a little bit of fear can go a long way with these creeps that think the world is their personal wal-mart. Putting them in crime college for 6 months doesn't seem to do anything.

I have a friend in NV that leaves his doors unlocked and his garage open and never gets ripped off. Why, you ask? Because there is a VERY high probability that the owners are home, well armed and WILL shoot. Slimey little thieves dont want to take that risk.

AuntyM, it isn't just this administration, but you are right, too many people thinking they can train a rattlesnake, and when it bites it is society failing at rehabilitation.

That's an obsession to COD 4 right there....
JD

Brant,

Absolutely innocent until proven guilty and right to a trial by jury are part of society's values. If the thief wanted to exercise his rights, he should have dropped to the ground when so ordered. He didn't and suffered what I consider the natural and logical consequences of his actions. The problem as I see it is that the thief made a fatal error in assuming his actions were not subject to adverse consequences, but it turns out that they were. That is how it should be. You only get a trial by jury and get to be presumed innocent until proven guilty if you are captured alive. In this case the thief was attempting to elude capture when he kept running instead of dropping to the ground when ordered. He gambled with his life and lost.

You seem to be trying to turn (like a good defense attorney) the rules of problem ownership around and make the real victim (Mr. Sheen, the car and stereo owner) into the perpetrator when any contextual analysis shows that the burglar was the perp and not a victim of any kind at all. If the burglar obeyed the law, and the normative expectations of society that you don't steal other people's stuff, then the burglar would still be alive today. There are two tragedies here. One that the thief was a dumbshit, gambled and lost, and two, that Mr. Sheen has to live the rest of his life knowing he killed another human, even if the human was behaving like a scumbag at the time, Mr. Sheen will probably feel far more remorse for the burglar's loss of life than the scumbag burglar would have ever felt for stealing Mr. Sheen's stereo speaker.

It's my contention that by prosecuting people who are defending their property or life, we are in fact undermining our social values regarding honesty and "thou shall not steal." I'm not necessarily condoning vigilanteism. Mr. Sheen is charged with using excessive force. I'd like to ask the prosecutor just how much force is acceptable? Should Mr. Sheen stand on his balcony and just watch the burglar carry his stereo speaker away? How about throwing a rock? Hell he would probably miss, but what if he got lucky and hit the burglar in the head. He'd probably still be dead, so then rock throwing at burglars is also excessive force? See how rediculous the analysis gets? Where do you draw the line? What action is the property owner legally entitled to? Any? Oh, he can call the cops - - fat lot of good that's going to do, and you and everyone else knows it. Either the owner is entitled to take some action to defend his property, or he is entitled to none, because there is no line that can be drawn between doing nothing and doing what he did, take a shot at the thief after a verbal warning to drop to the ground, that makes any sense at all.

OK you get your chance. You tell us - and the jury - what reasonable alternatives were available to Mr. Sheen other than what he did. Letting the thief get in the car with the speaker and drive off never to be seen again and filing a police report is not a reasonable alternative because all evidence points to the conclusion that only an exceedingly low percentage of burglary items are ever recovered, and that the police are wholly ineffectual at preventing burglaries or finding and convicting burglars and recovering stolen property. Burglary is profitable, and that is the simple reason why it is such a popular crime. The only way to make burglary unprofitable is to shoot and kill a high enough percentage of burglars that they can't make any money at it due to risk of death. Incarceration could be an alternative, but as this case illustrates, the damn burglar won't drop to the ground when ordered, so he receives a natural consequence of his action. And society benefits.

This is fun.

Sg

You're lieing again. Or is this just another nuance that no one comprehends but you?

A 27 pound subwoofer? Give me a break.

Sounds like two turds fighting over last place.




FREE BIG STICK

He got what he deserved!! Show up at my place trying to steal and you will get the same!! garanfukinteed!!

If a Nagant is your subwoofer defense weapon of choice................steal another guys speakers to put a firearm on layaway. Hopefully whatever you buy will reflect the discriminating tastes you obviously have by owning a speaker that weighs more than two house cats.


FREE BIG STICK

I give him 2 demerits for not getting the follow up shots on the guys in the getaway car. . . .
Steal my [censored] while I am home and see what you get, one warning shot center mass . . .

I give a warning shot too...One to the chest of the first thief warns the second I aint fukin around....

When someone decides to steal my stuff, they steal a portion of my life. It was my time that I chose to spend working for the money to buy whatever was stolen. Well, everyone only gets just so much time, so in effect, the thief chooses to steal my life. And his punishment is that I get to pay for his defense, incarceration, feeding, clothing, medical expenses, etc.

I figure that if you steal from me, YOU owe ME.....not the other way around. We are not civilized.....we're just stupid.

i think this would have been legal in texas

You're right there.

Maybe some day I will tell the story of catching some punk stealing two portable 5 gallon gas tanks out from my garage on night down on Alki...let's just say he didn't get too far...and the Cop that showed up was one cool dude. Brings a smile just thinking about it.

I would love to be the guy that says, "if someone steals from me ill kill the mo fo" but realistically I have been a victim of this same thing before, on several occasions, and I have several loaded guns around me at all times. To be honest, I have hypothetically put my self in this position several times in the past and I cannot bring myself to pull the trigger. I mean, my life is not being threatened and I have no fear for my family. If you are willing to shoot someone for stealing your speakers where do you draw the line. I have neighborhood kids running through my yard all the time pulling flowers, breaking branches off my trees and all kinds of shennanigans. My life and well being is not being threatened anymore by a speaker thief then by these hooligan kids, am I justified in shooting these kids for vandalizing my property?

Even for me you know NOTHING about me. Presumptuous self righteous Aunty M. It's all about the administration. Riight! Have you ever been subjected to random violence? I have. I have watched the legal system fail long before this administration. Don't blame Obama for it. But what would I know. I'm Vapid Angler

Yes,you call the police,that's the right answer. It's a stereo speaker! Is that worth a human life? Don't get me wrong thieves are fucked up. So is alcoholism and drug addiction which is most likely the reason why people like this guy steal. Don't tell me you have never known any addicts? Alcoholics? Why not kill them.

What do I know,I'm a smarmy bleeding heart liberal. Hell,just let Ted Nugent blast them all. Bunch of slapdicks....

Per Wa. State law this guys actions are clearly illigal. Justifiable homicide in this state is pretty clear. We are free to shoot to defend ourselves or any other person, from imminent danger, or to stop a felony.

Before pulling the trigger folks need to basically ask themselves how it would look to a jury as that is what a prosocuter will be asking themselves.

As for me you can run off with anything I own and I'll call 911, unless of course your inside my residence, with only one exception. Try and run off with my dog and I'm dropping your ass!!!! She makes for one very cute witness and I got no problem explianing my actions to a Jury!

Anyone who owns and carries guns in Wa. needs a copy of Dave Workman's pamphlet on the subject.................

[url=http://www.danddgunleather.com/pages/washington_gun_rights.htm][/url]

[


[/quote]

Yes,you call the police,that's the right answer. It's a stereo speaker! Is that worth a human life? Don't get me wrong thieves are fucked up. So is alcoholism and drug addiction which is most likely the reason why people like this guy steal. Don't tell me you have never known any addicts? Alcoholics? Why not kill them.

What do I know,I'm a smarmy bleeding heart liberal. Hell,just let Ted Nugent blast them all. Bunch of slapdicks.... [/quote]


Seems to me the thief was the one that decided first that stealing the speaker was worth the gamble that he might lose his life.

If a speaker is not worth a life
then a thief should not take a speaker.

If it is illegal to shoot a thief caught in the act
then we need to change our laws.

Let's see - it's OK to kill someone who is stealing a subwoofer. And we are fighting the Islamic fundamentalists, why????? Seems like we have a lot in common with them....

I think our system is broken.
We send killers to the county fukkin fair.

OK, everybody......hands up those who have at sometime or another stolen something! That's right. Get 'em up there. Alright now all you Mfkr's up against the wall.

Ready..........

Aim...........







FIRE!!!




:cough: :gag: :ugh:





Due to you liberals, my tools are gone more than once without a trace....my radio, same.....the list goes on......

Also due to you libs, I'm still here and I stole a few things in my past. A nickel bag of peanuts from the grocery store when I was in grade school, some items from the hardware store, crab from a friends freezer.........other stuff......I don't steal any more and never did time or was even prosecuted even though I was caught a couple of times. Pretty fortunate for me, I'd say.

All this stuff happened years ago and now I hate you thieves, would shoot your asses in a heart beat, cut off your hands and maybe your heads, set you on fire and piss on you and your kids.......because I'm like a reformed smoker looking down my nose because I'm so much better than you bastards.........or am I?

The law system is [censored]..........

Guy blatantly steals another persons belongings. Won't stop or drop it.... Dude shoots him in the back of the head and now will spend his life behind bars or end up a Carni....

Wish I was on his Jury..... I'd free the kid.

I've had my truck broke into twice over the years, it's violating......

My dad had his cabin broke into once, again violating.

Someone comes onto my property and I catch them in the act of stealing, they're getting a bullet as well. But, I don't think I'd make the dudes head a canoe.......... I'd shoot him in the legs or ass, inflict enough that he would have to turn himself into a hospital.

Keith

How many times have you heard in the media of a citizen defending themselves or their property shooting and wounding a felon, only to be sued by the felon for damages???

Remember these words..

"I was in fear for my life. It appeared to me that the person was reaching for a weapon and that he meant to do me or others nearby grievous bodily harm with that weapon. That is all I will say at the moment, as I need to talk to my lawyer."

I was in fear for my life. It appeared to me that the person was reaching for a weapon and that he meant to do me or others nearby grievous bodily harm with that weapon. That is all I will say at the moment, as I need to talk to my lawyer."

+1 especially the lawyer part. Don't say anyting more than your name, rank and serial number and keep your lawyer on speed dial.

1-800-rvrfshr ?

Avid,

I did call the police. I know legally that's what we're supposed to do. But in fact it is a near waste of time and energy. My stuff is still gone. And the little shithead that did it, did it before, and is still doing it, and will keep on doing it until one of us neighbors gets as lucky as Mr. Sheen and pops him for the final count. And then whichever one of us it is will recite from memory what Dogfish posted. Of course it's not the preferred outcome. No one wishes the shithead ill will. We just want him to stop breaking into places and stealing our stuff. But he won't. And eventually his luck is gonna' run out. Society is obligated to take measures to protect itself, or we're no longer a society. It's not about the value of 27 pound sub-woofers; it's about the social value of right and wrong; you steal and you bear adverse consequences.

Sg

I had my car broken into in Arizona, and i was up when it happened. I had my paintball gun/gear by me and a full hopper of paint as i had a paintball tournament the next morning and couldn't sleep. Anyways i hear the sound of a window breaking, so i peek out the window and see 2 guys, 1 guy on guard and 1 guy riffling through my stuff. I opened the front door and unloaded a whole hopper on these guys as they ran there ass down the street to there car, which was parked at the end of the block. The police where called and eventually they found the guys about 3 miles down the road with paintball splatters on there car....
Funny [censored] that still makes me laugh to this day. If any of you have ever got shot by a paintball gun when your not expecting it, it doesn't feel so good. I fired off 250 rounds, which i estimate 90% hit there mark....
If i had a gun by my side, i would have no problem shooting the thieving bastards in the leg, steal someones stuff, and you deserve more than a slap on the wrist. That's whats wrong with are system, drug offenders/thieves just get a slap on the wrist and do it over and over again. They get shot and something tells me they will think twice before doing that crime again.
Just my opinion.....

As a reserve deputy in Whatcom County I arrested the same little puke 9 times, in 2 years. Theft, dealing, stolen property, domestic, etc. Habitual criminals need to be culled.

The guy who got shot appears to have had no interaction with the Waashington Court system, but it would be interesting to see what his friends records were like.

Oh THANK you salmo for enlightening me. I think I'm gonna go kill me a f'in petty thief,and anyone else who breaks the law. You guys are [censored] barbaric. Frankly I call BS. You ain't gonna shoot anyone.

If the consequences aren't severe enough for you start y'all better start writin!! It'll never fly though. Too many decent folks adhere to the rule of Thou Shalt Not Kill. EVER.

Never heard that rule.....at least not the EVER part.....

When is homicide justified ? Am I missing something? Who made you God to say when it's justified to take a life??

The "Rule" is thou shalt not kill...as far as a commandment goes.....but there are "justified" killings.
I wouldn't expect a poosie like you to understand..... self defense to a girl like you is doucheing after anal sex ...now go outside and piss into the wind some more.

Avid sounds Livid.

Livid Angler......hmmmmm


Sounds like one who could kill.

Avid,

If the criminal justice system worked, and thievery weren't epidemic, and if the occasional slaps on the wrists worked, etc., I would agree with you. But our society has become pretty much dysfunctional with regard to the criminal justice system. There is NO justice.

Strangely I do agree with the notion of "thou shall not kill," but recall that it is in the same list that includes "thou shall not steal." So if somebody has a chronic habit of stealing, I really do think tagging their ass serves them right, justly right in fact. Whether or not I would actually shoot if I had the chance is uncertain. I could be a bit unstable about the matter; heads, I shoot; tails, I don't. Hard to say.

Sg

I would never shoot anyone for stealing any property, with the exception of maybe someone hurting or stealing my dog. The possibility of doing time over shooting someone for stealing stuff is not worth the consequences to me. An Ass beating would not be over looked though. Now if my life or someone elses was in iminent danger that is a whole different story.

I deleted my post because I don't want to promote any ideas that killing over thievery is OK. I just think the consequences are far too great to kill for "stuff". It kinda burns my butt to admit it, because I hate having shlt stolen, but the price is just too high to shoot the mfkr. Most "stuff" can be replaced, but a one-of-a-kind piece of crap leech....never mind.....that ain't working, either.

Killing is for "have to" situations. Period.

My 2

Funny part is Restitution... What a joke... When my truck was broken into the first time I had to go to court and "prove" the stuff that was recovered was mine. In the midst of it I was awarded $1600 in restitution to replace what was broken and not given back...

Guess how much restitution I've seen over the last 12 years....

You got it $000000

I still remember their last name... NGUYEN.... Given the chance I would love to get my hands on those little weasels..... Had I been a few minutes quicker I would have caught them in the act.

Keith

Had to bring this back up.....

For the simple reason I know Avid personally, and think the world of him. Get to know him and you will understand his feelings on this matter.

I dont always agree with him, and he knows that.

That bieng said......................

Stealing sucks!

I believe in eye for an eye.

Death for stealing speakers does not equal eye for an eye.

That bieng said, the bastard would have paid if I caught him.

He would have lived, but he would have been better off bieng caught by the police.

Now, I never said anything about a good ass beating










Livid Angler

If a cop had done what this kid did, the cop would be charged with Murder, not manslaughter and lose his/her job in the process. This kid made a very poor decision to use deadly force on a theif running away and unfortuneately he will have to live with the consequences of that descision for the rest of his life.

The kid is screwed. First off, he talked and now his story is locked in and the evidence is going to show that his life was not in danger. Next, he did it in Seattle, so he will have a jury that is drawn from a population that doesn't like guns much anyway. The kid's statement that he just wanted to wound the guy is probably true, but I bet he has never practiced shooting at a running target from 70 yards away. That bullet could have very easily missed and struck someone innocent and as it was the bullet continued on after leaving the tweakers head. Good thing it did no harm after that.

Now consider the trauma the kid is going through and unlike a police officer, he does not have free access to professional help and support. I would bet a year's wages this kid is not sleeping and is suffering emotionaly and mentally.

This kid better hope that tweaker doesn't have any relatives living in this country, because if he does this kid is going to be sued. Think about that; what it will cost him to defend himself and more then likely he is going to owe the survivors thousands times the value of that speaker in a judgement. That will stick with him until the day he dies.

This poor kid is so screwed. It was a life changing decision. Was it worth it? Well, that kid is going to have to answer that for himself. My guess is this kid wishes he had just let that tweaker run.

I don't think the kid was trying for the head shot at 70 yards. If he emptied the clip after the dirt bag went down I would consider it excessive use of force. Being an oversize extremely slow man 12ga loaded with 00buck would of been my choice. mainly for the safety of my neighbors