In your well-researched and obviously expert opinion, could you please share which NW health insurance carriers are on the brink of failing in the next couple of years?

The insurance companies are not driving reform. I'd like to see a reliable source stating otherwise. Really, I would.

In reading the meaningless drivel of this thread, I finally found one statement that closely mirrors my own view. This, by alanmikkelsen:

"Until we accept the inevitablity of death in our lives, and adjust our attitudes accordingly, I don't see much change coming, despite all the hope I have......"

It isn't health insurance reform that this country needs. It's a mindset change. People die. It's sometimes terrible, and often frightening. Insurance companies are doing an INCREDIBLE job of keeping costs down.

It's a shame that we think we can sit around eating Twinkies all day long, drinking beer and watching TV, all the while contributing - oh, somewhere in the range of $50-$150/month for a few years of health insurance, and then when (surprise) our hearts begin to fail, we can run crying to the insurance company to fork over $250,000-$400,000 for new ones so we can screw them up, too.

Make basic, preventive care affordable to those who want it. A visit to the general practitioner in the northwest costs $120-$210 on average. Charge people $30/month and let them go to the doctor twice a year for a checkup. If you elect a colonoscopy once a year, you should expect to pay around $600 - roughly one-third of the cost.

The problem with healthcare is that no one knows how much it really costs to get sick. A friend of mine complains that his oral cancer drugs cost him $85 last month (GASP!!!). I showed him that his oral cancer drugs cost his insurance company nearly $17,000 in the same amount of time.

Health insurance is cheap and misused and misunderstood. It's education we need, not reform.

BWP - I'm disappointed. I asked one question and you didn't even answer it. Instead you made jokes and insulted me and created an argument of your own.

I'll counter your argument when I get home from work, but I'd really like to see which insurance companies are calling in favors with congress and asking for mandated coverage.

In the meantime, reread my post and see if a good night's sleep let you see a few things you couldn't last night.

"How about this for a New Rule: Not everything in America has to make a profit. It used to be that there were some services and institutions so vital to our nation that they were exempt from market pressures. Some things we just didn't do for money. The United States always defined capitalism, but it didn't used to define us. But now it's becoming all that we are."

"there's health care. It wasn't that long ago that when a kid broke his leg playing stickball, his parents took him to the local Catholic hospital, the nun put a thermometer in his mouth, the doctor slapped some plaster on his ankle and you were done. The bill was $1.50, plus you got to keep the thermometer.

But like everything else that's good and noble in life, some Wall Street wizard decided that hospitals could be big business, so now they're run by some bean counters in a corporate plaza in Charlotte. In the U.S. today, three giant for-profit conglomerates own close to 600 hospitals and other health care facilities. They're not hospitals anymore; they're Jiffy Lubes with bedpans. America's largest hospital chain, HCA, was founded by the family of Bill Frist, who perfectly represents the Republican attitude toward health care: it's not a right, it's a racket. The more people who get sick and need medicine, the higher their profit margins. Which is why they're always pushing the Jell-O.

Because medicine is now for-profit we have things like "recision," where insurance companies hire people to figure out ways to deny you coverage when you get sick, even though you've been paying into your plan for years.

When did the profit motive become the only reason to do anything? When did that become the new patriotism? Ask not what you could do for your country, ask what's in it for Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

If conservatives get to call universal health care "socialized medicine," I get to call private health care "soulless vampires making money off human pain." The problem with President Obama's health care plan isn't socialism, it's capitalism. "

Bill Maher.

Here's a plan that will sell itself......cannot lose.


Free medical coverage.......free.....as in fking free for everyone who is a citizen of the US up until age 18......because kids shouldn't bear the injustices of their parents.

After that.....pay up, baby....you are now enlisted.

What do yo think?

If I have to answer right now, the answer is always "no." It's a good start, but needs a few more details for complete buy in. From what I've heard, everybody being enlisted and paying into the pool is a major part of the concept.

Sg

I'd drop the age to 16, since that's the legal employment age. Start paying in as soon as possible.

No??? Really???? Fk Me. that seems like a shoo in to me..... you know, the ol' heartstringpullin' "save the kids" thing.....

Man, I can't believe you said NO.....you drinkin' again?....still?

from what I've seen in this country... even if everybody is enlisted in the program you can bet the only ones paying into the pool will be the middle and upper classes...

Ok, now this irritates the beejezus out of me and here is why.

What the UK Has in common with "obamacare" is beyond me. but lets forget that for a moment. As a past "QA reviewer for most of the major Health insurance companies in the US, Let me explain a few facts;

Currently, Healthcare companies in the US are doing just this very thing as a "Quality Assurance" Procedure. How many of you have had to get a second opinion before your provider wanted to do surgery? How many of you who needed surgery, had to wait while your doctor had to get "Prior Authorization to perform your surgery? Are you aware that your surgeon has to get authorization "after the fact" even in emergency situations. That your health insurance company can, and does decide an emergency as determined by your doctor(s) may not be an emergency, and can deny that surgery after you have had it.

Health insurance providers have, and do deny coverage for cases stated in the original post here in the US. When i was reviewing a case of a premature baby, it was becoming evident that the care would exceed a million dollars. As we reviewed the daily charts of this premie, we referred to the baby as our "Million dollar baby", and we were all deeply commited to its care. The CEO, called the nurse reviewers and QA people into a video conference and demanded that we tell the parent to take the baby off life support. The butt chewing we all received for not demanding this was done ourselves was outrageous. By the time the conference was over, the nurses and QA reviewer all quit on the spot. But the CEO called the hospital administrator and cut off all care. This was not the first time i had witnessed something like this, but it was my last. I have since left the Health insurance field all together. I have a conscience.

People, Wake Up, this is our health care, Corporate profit outweighing both medical care, which saved this babies life, and the "Right" of all of us to be treated with dignity, respect, and receive care that is between us and our doctors. This is the current system we live with. Dont blame this on "Obamacare", this has been in effect since the first HMO started in 1978, and continues today. When we all, conservative and liberal demand better we will get it. and not until. As a footnote, this baby survived, and lives a productive, normal life at the age of 15 today.

Sorry this is my first post, and a rant, but i just cant stay quiet on something so important.
really, I'd rather be; justfishin.

Based on the Just Fishin' post, I repeat my post back on 9/22 in this thread:

Never forget that insurance companies are in the business of collecting premiums, not paying claims.

I rest my case.

Just fishin, if Obama said it was a good idea to stop hitting yourself in the foot with a hammer, not only would all the R's in Congress immediately run out and hit themselves in the foot with a hammer just one time to prove him wrong...the R voters would keep hitting themselves in the foot until their foot turned to oatmeal.

This hasn't been about health care from the very beginning, because everyone already knows exactly what you put in your post, and that health care these days has nothing to do with health, or care...just money.

All the R's know that, and all the partisan R supporters know it...they will, however, continue to vote against their own interests and the interests of the country on straight partisanship.

How the Republican leadership and loudmouths on the radio have convinced about half of America to vote against their own interests and for the interests of the top .5%, I have no idea...but if anything is going to change in this country, they either have to get on board with it...or stand on the tracks and get run over.

It wasn't always that way...but it sure is now.

Fish on...

Todd

You are right about some of the Democratic members of Congress Aunty. Baucus, Conrad, Lincoln in the Senate and the "Blue Dogs" in the House are definitely the ones holding reform legislation up.

Todd is talking about the opinion of the American electorate though mostly. While the R's in Congress don't wield a lot of power to stop a bill from being passed... the right-wing noise machine, with the help, blessing and financing of the insurance and pharma conglomerates and the Republican Party is doing it's abject best to sway public opinion with their campaign of misinformation, propaganda and out and out LIES.

Because a good many Americans are stupid and easily manipulated due to their prejudice and biases, this campaign has been somewhat successful. Because it has... Democrats in red States and in conservative, rural districts have been afraid to support reform for fear of losing the next election.

So... even though the R's are the minority in government, they've still been able to have quite an impact.

I think it's high time that the progressives in this country start to speak out like the conservatives have and get this reform legislation, complete with a robust public option passed!

NYT polls find a slim majority in favor, and the Kaiser poll finds a significant majority in favor...

Reading a Rasmussen poll is like going to an NRA meeting and taking a poll on Rosie O'Donnell...and then thinking it represents a cross section of America.

Not so much.

Fish on...

Todd

some numbers I want to see...

-how many of the currently unisured believe that health care premiums will be force on them...

-How many of the currently insured like the policy they are currently insured with and are afraid that they will have to pony up to cover the currently uninsured...

do you really think government health insurance is going to look out for anyones interest? Its f'n insurance for God sakes... you can only pay out what is paid in minus profit and overhead... And I'll take a privateers profit over a government overhead anyday of the week

government run health care is going to look out for one interest... and that is how many votes it will get me in the next election... as far as I'm concerned the only thing that government health care has going for it is a huge tax base to draw from.

"Not a penny added to the deficit."
Let's see now, government administration costs plus actual pay out to doctors, hospitals, etc., minus premiums divided by the number of working stiffs minus the unemployed equals budget neutral. I don't see a problem any where in all that, do you?

In fact, in order to cover the varying unemployment numbers alone, the premiums will HAVE to be too high to cover those times when unemployment is its highest. That means there will be a profit pool which can be used for other non related uses......perhaps a refund? Oh wait that would be another hierarchy of administration.

I know enough to know that I don't have the answer, but then that's not my job, is it?.....I vote people into office who are supposed to figure this stuff out......instead look what I get....people taking more money away and telling me that it's for my own good. If you can't figure out that adding more expenses to your monthly bill will lessen your profits, I don't know what to say. Force our "Elected"s to accept their own product and maybe we'll get something worth while.

So am I hearing now that the party that was declared dead months ago is keeping the liberators from freeing the captives??

[quote=blue water pro]I honestly believe that most people do NOT understand our current health care & how the for profit works against their interest.[quote]

BWP - Still waiting for that list of insurance companies lobbying for reform.

I contribute $57.81 per paycheck for my insurance. That brings the monthly total to a whopping $115.62/month. I would encourage anyone else reading this to actually find out how much you contribute to your insurance, too. It won't be no $550.

Fact - insurance companies are in the business of collecting premium.

Fact - any denied claim (money a company doesn't pay out) means more money for the company at the end of the year (duh).

Fact - health insurance is only expensive to the policyholder if he never goes to the doctor. $300/month premium = $3,600 annually. No claims? Should have put that money in the bank. You just lost $3,600!!

Fact - health insurance is an amazing deal for the policyholder if she gets cancer/in a car wreck/breaks an arm/needs knee surgery/has a baby. $300/month in premium = $3,600 annually. Knee surgery = $60,000. $500 deductible + 20% coinsurance to a $2,500 maximum (thank you ins co for the maximum!) Policyholder was billed $60,000 and only paid $6,600!! Insurance saved her over $50,000!!

Fact - premiums will go up for the policyholder the next year. Look up the term "loss ratio."

Fact - an insurance company can't cancel the policy at the end of the term. Look up the term "guaranteed renewable."

BWP - you act as if it is a bad thing that insurance companies cover healthy people. The FACT is, health insurance companies need the premiums from the healthy people to offset a very minor part of the population that is sick.

Insurance companies negotiate with doctors to SAVE money. This, in turn, keeps the premium costs down for you and me. (Remember LOSS RATIO?)




[quote=blue water pro]I honestly believe that most people do NOT understand our current health care & how the for profit works against their interest.[quote]

I'm with you on that one, BWP.

Oh, also fact - Insurance companies owed not one red cent to anyone injured or killed in the attacks on 9/11. Acts of war are excluded from coverage in every insurance policy out there.

Out of the goodness of their hearts, insurance companies paid over $9 billion (with a B) that they could have rightfully kept.

Thank you insurance companies.

You want reform? Educate yourself on the costs of disease.

It doesn't stop with Insurance companies. Ask why we pay more than the rest of the world for medical devices and drugs that are invented and produced right here. Not only do we provide substantial tax breaks for that R&D we also pay up again at the till. Real reform would mean we US citizens pay the least amount and the rest of the world ponies up to reimburse us for all of that R&D we provide them.

Don't you care about the rest of the world?