#550354 - 10/29/09 12:40 AM
Boeing went "boing" right outa here
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WINNER
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
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Second Plant for the Dreamliner?.......gone. Headquarters.......gone. Will the whole company pull out?
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Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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#550358 - 10/29/09 12:48 AM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: ParaLeaks]
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April Fool
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 15727
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Mngmnt wants to break the Union...and would love to move everything to "right to work states" that is their goal.
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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein.
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#550372 - 10/29/09 01:35 AM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: ]
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April Fool
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 15727
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Average wage in Everett is 26.00 per hour..average wage in S.C is 14.00 per hour...you do the math.
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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein.
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#550382 - 10/29/09 02:09 AM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: ]
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ISO Chrome
Unregistered
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The average price for a gallon of gas in WA is $4.15 gal. South Carolina price is $2.51
Huh? I just filled up yesterday and paid $2.79 gal. Not sure where they got their numbers at. ISO
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#550383 - 10/29/09 02:09 AM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: ]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 4166
Loc: Poulsbo, WA,USA
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Everett has the Navy Base. Charleston lost their shipyard years ago.
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I'd Rather Be Fishing for Summer Steelhead!
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#550385 - 10/29/09 02:15 AM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: ]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4317
Loc: South Sound
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The average price for a gallon of gas in WA is $4.15 gal. South Carolina price is $2.51
Huh? I just filled up yesterday and paid $2.79 gal. Not sure where they got their numbers at. ISO Hank won't be bothered with such trivial matters such as facts. They interfere with his entire world view.
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#550405 - 10/29/09 07:17 AM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: ]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3091
Loc: Bothell, Wa
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The only way the state could have avoided this is to make the state a "right to work state." But with the unions (and indians) running this state that would be shooting themselves in the foot so off to SC for the 2nd line. The libs and unions would rather lose the war then admit their errors.
I wonder if I'll like it there??? I hear the fishing is pretty good and have heard much much much better things about the women. Hmmm!
I'll find out soon enough as I'm spending a couple of weeks there around the holidays.
p.s. As for the wages a junior workforce will not be making on average as much as a senior workforce. In this case <5 yrs @ SC and >20 years @ PS. The wages should even out over 20 years or so.
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"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler
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#550407 - 10/29/09 07:51 AM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: BroodBuster]
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WINNER
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
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The weather can get ugly in that area......real ugly. Glad I don't have to make the decision of whether or not to move. Cost of living/doing business here is a huge incentive to get out. Higher unemployment here means more fishermen on MY rivers.... All you bastages.......OUT!
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Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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#550452 - 10/29/09 12:08 PM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: Jerry Garcia]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
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It's not just about busting the union. I've lived my entire life being blackmailed periodically by Boeing. Only now they don't hold as much clout around here as they once did. I think it's more of Boeing picking up it's toys and going somewhere else to play...somewhere where they hold more sway over the populace...and can hold that populaces feet to the fire when they need to. SC should be careful what it wishes for as the demands have only just begun. Once entrenched they'll find out what Boeing is really all about.
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"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella
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#550455 - 10/29/09 12:13 PM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: stlhead]
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April Fool
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 15727
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Response to Second 787 Line Announcement October 28, 2009 - "Boeing has betrayed our loyalty once again, walking away from our discussions just like they walked away from Seattle eight years ago to move to Chicago. We tried very hard to reach an extended agreement with Boeing. We listened closely to what executives said, and suggested ideas to meet their needs. We offered concrete, real-world solutions. But I can tell you now, no matter what Boeing says or implies, the truth is this: We did offer Boeing a 10-year contract, and even offered to go longer than that. And when we did, they seemed stunned, and stopped talking. It was obvious to me that Boeing wasn’t really interested in working with us. They didn't take our proposals seriously and they never offered any proposals of their own. Most of the time, they didn’t even take notes. It's now clear that Boeing was only using our talks as a smoke screen, and as a bargaining chip to extort a bigger tax handout from South Carolina. I haven't reported this before -- not to our members and certainly not to the media -- because Boeing had asked for confidential talks. My word means something, so I said nothing, even while the company was leaking half-truths to reporters. When our team asked Boeing if 10 years was going to be enough for them, they didn't respond. And when I asked them to confirm that the extended contract would secure the second 787 line for Washington state, their reply was only: "Well, it would be helpful." But they would not commit to anything. Still, we tried to get a deal, because I know that's what our members and our community wanted. To do that, we were willing to discuss any issue to get a deal that we could recommend to our members. We floated ideas on health care costs, wages, pensions and lump sums. None of this mattered to Boeing. They didn't want solutions, but only a scapegoat. Our seven-week strike last year is not the reason the 787 is already more than 120 weeks behind schedule. Instead of investing in our shared future and a highly talented workforce in a region ideally suited for aerospace, Boeing has decided to double-down on its failed 787 strategy and place an ill-advised, billion-dollar bet on a strategy that’s a proven loser.”
_________________________
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein.
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#550482 - 10/29/09 12:50 PM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: Salmo g.]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2533
Loc: Elma
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It clearly is a labor cost issue. Any negotiations with unions up here, were merely a smokescreen to get more concessions from SC.
I have worked with some folks who came from the Naval yard in Charleston when it broke up, and as a general rule, they weren't smart enough to pour piss out of a boot before they put in on.
Within 2 years, I imagine that there will be real issues with the quality of the labor force in SC. That point was made above in that the work force will be 20 years "younger". If you are a Boeing employee around the Everett area, you could probably score a much higher position in SC in a couple of years. Skilled labor for that particular plant is going to be in high demand. I imagine that if you travelled to that area this time of year, it is pretty nice. Summer time, forget it.
Simple fact is most of the major manufacturing in this country is going to be moving into Right to Work the red states. It has been coming for the last 10 years.
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WDFW - Turning outdoorsmen into golfers since 1994.
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#550714 - 10/29/09 11:08 PM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: Irie]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 09/08/02
Posts: 418
Loc: Seattle
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I don't know about the quality of work done by a machinist here versus in SC, but something about paying people $14 an hour to build a commercial plane that I may be flying on doesn't sit well with me.
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#550817 - 10/30/09 01:16 PM
Re: Boeing went "boing" right outa here
[Re: Achewter]
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Carcass
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 2190
Loc: Post Falls Idaho
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Several years ago my buddy who supervised about 30 software folks at Boeing came to work and found that everyone but him was being layed off. Seems they could hire 12 Russians at the cost of one worker here. My buddy said it was sad indeed, but if the company didn't do it, they wouldn't survive.
Too bad that over the years the relationship between the Union and the Company has sorrowed to the point, where the spoken goal by the Union in the last strike was to break the company. When those kind of things get said, your not even thinking anymore.
Its all about labor costs, but at the same time, its more about the failure of both sides to maintain a healthy relationship based in reality. The Union and the Company own this together. But, as usual it will be the average worker who pays the price.
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