Best line of this whole thread

Glad u confirmed that fact SG ... I also thought that was the case ... there isn't much that the Q's don't net ... even the little Moclips and Copalis get netted too.

Tough for them to stay on their beds when they are getting yanked off them daily in the CnR area's which personnelly I think should be closed not one of the Quil. waters actually has closed waters and with the attack raft mode now in force it is pathetic the harrasment these fish receive we are our worst enemy's and should definitely not be pointing fingers, great topic Bob!!!PEACE

I never thought I would see so many,and this passionate,arguments about what is killing our fish.

I know the equipment and people opperating it are reliable. My fear is that the numbers that we get (kings) are manipulated to encourage the spending of money on the peninsula. They say there are more coming than there really are. I too have a few days on the Kenai and have been watching the sonar counts my whole life. I do think the Sockeye numbers are more accurate.


Raft river,

I have seen the Raft slithering thick with Steelies when I was in high school, not sure weather they were hatchery or not. Alot of fish a few times that I fished it, I'm sure they don't get returns like that any more.

It would seem that if we got our house in order, we could ask others to put theirs in order also. Limit our impact to the natives by C & R and less time on the river while stocks rebuild. Consider closing the river to all during the time the native's return. Then maybe we could get the native fishermen to use alternate methods of fishing, meaning no more gill nets and a way to pass on native fish without harm. When and if the stock ever rebuilds reopen to all with a reasonable take with the best interest of the species in mind by all. Just to simple is'nt it.

Ya, honesty would make or break that system. Kind like the honesty of the red counts we have today from the tribes have affected our current #s
I just think that used in the way it's intended to it would be a very useful and effective tool to help manage runs with some accuracy while still allowing maximum use of the resource.
Thanks for the feedback!!!

The Bio is right but there is more to the Raft. It has an old hatchery on it that is no longer in use. It was netted for Broodstock only as thats were the QIN got its Silver stock. But is not netted anymore even for that and never has been for commercial sales of seafood.

There are no hatchery steelies but a fair number of Nates. Most of the guides practice C and R on this stream only. Some still kill...
The silver run lasts into January on this stream and is very good. Last year we saw Silvers in there in feb looking for Steelies. I have walked all of the river and although it has been logged before, many, many years ago, it has not in along time. Its kind of a cerimonial river for the QIN. At least it dosent recieve the intence, close to the banks logging most others do.

Bob, This was a great posting.

No doubt all: "Due to Ocean Conditions and other unknown and / or uncontrollable factors"... *

*(why dont you have a "douchebag" emoticon that I can insert here?)

I think that it is important to recognize that wild anadromous fish in the Pacific region have evolved throughout many millions of years over a geographically huge area- from California to Alaska and from Russia to Japan- not just in one river system at a time.

The management of wild steelhead and salmon here has focused on "one river run at a time". And they have collapsed each run in exactly that manner- "one by one". Then applying the same methods to other runs they have repeated the same results. These wild fish should have been enjoying far greater protections long ago than they already do now. And I do agree that far too little is being done for them now.

We sportsfishers are indeed a big part of the problem. Especially now that the overall numbers are so low. And some of the so many guides out here on the Olympic Peninsula are approaching wild steelhead fishing in a reckless and ruthless manner. Sickening. Yes, of course the netting is destructive, tragically so. And we have commercial net and longline fishing on the coasts and offshore too. So many natural and unnatural foes for these fish. All we want to do is go fishing, and most of us release wild steelhead anyway.

So we argue over who should be giving up how much, who is to blame etc. Certainly Catch & Release fishing done responsibly is not a major impact. But what if there are not enough fish left for even that low impact activity to be sustainable now? I have yet to find a biologist who can say what the critical low population number is, the "point of no return" number. Of course if they knew this for sure they would have closed all of the fishing by now, the runs would not have tanked, perhaps it shoold have been closed long ago. But instead they continue deal making with all of the "stakeholders". And the harvest continues. And the runs are collapsed or collapsing. WDFW Managers have defended continued harvest of Wild Steelhead on the Quillayute rivers as "sustainable", similarly they have supportd harvest on the Hoh Wild Steelhead runs as well. The last rivers we have with countable wild fish and they are killing them off faster than they can spawn.

The only solution I can see that would be immediatley impactful would be an all-out boycott on wild steelhead fishing of any kind, and heavy social protest and media perssure on the tribes, harvest guides and sports etc, the fish buyers and brokers and seafood resteraunts, chefs etc.

If the sportsfishermen themselves boycotted the WDFW sanctioned Sportsfishing Season on Wild Steelhead it would put them into a terribly embarrassing public position. How would they write that off?

Something radical has to happen!

As if losing the fish isn't radical enough for us?

The scary part is the thought of losing support from the sports sector in fighting the powers that be after these rivers have been closed to C&R for long enough. Another words a lot of interest lost over a period of time while the nets continue to kill without the pressure of the sports voice. This is very complicated and the longer the issue is debated the wild runs deplete that much more.

Join the fight for alternate commercial fishing methods that could RELEASE ALL NATIVES UNHARMED even in rivers.

www.CCAPNW.ORG

If we are truly concerned about the health of the fish stocks here on the Peninsula then why don't we just stop fishing for them altogether? No catch and release, no hatcheries, no fishing at all. Shut them down for 10-20 years and eliminate our end of the problem while giving us some ammo to throw at the tribes. Might not work but nothing else is either so why not try it? I would stop fishing altogether if I thought we could get the tribes and commercials to do the same.

Times up. The answer is; our alliance should be squaring up against commercial fishing interest instead of pointing fingers at each other.What are they? A constortium of businesses that have started and developed seafood markets around the globe long ago. Our game we started above from so thick with fish to critical mass was cause by global demand over the years.When we hit the middle point just starting to slide down toward critical mass there was public concern. Commercial fishing Interest main tools of choice:
1) Commercial fleet to supply product
2) Money from selling and destroying seafood bio mass
3) Politicians
A. To introduce and support their legislation to try to continue to get more and more share to keep with demand while destroying seafood bio mass at the same time.
$$$ is the driver and in their greed they could care less about fish.
Decade after decade after decade of legislation has been introduced by their interests with little to some resistance.
If you don't like what you see when you go fishing, it's time to find a grass roots outfit that plays at their level, that strikes and adds legislation, has lobbists, and has the ability to play in the
commercial fishing interests arena that is their 'POLITICAL DOMAIN'. All help will be needed if we want the good ol' days back.

When the CCA is willing to jump into this fracas ... I'll toss 'em some coin. Right now, they won't touch this stuff with a ten foot pole, so no $$$ from me.

There's lots of avenues to explore ... from accurate counts to going back to a strict number quota rather than a day quota that also has been skewed way out from previous years with the addition of a number of anglers and the extended use of driftnets.

None of these challenge the right to net, but increases accountability which lately seems to have gone out the window.

Agreed. If we are going to spend time and money establishing forecasts and conducting counts, we should maximize the benefits of those efforts. Furthermore, I think we need to start planning harvest limits so that they aim to steadily INCREASE escapement, as opposed to maintaining the status quo, which is clearly not working.

I think the point missed is the population of the world, everyone wants a piece of the pie, someone said there were 1.5 millon in the state now 6.5 million and growing. I do remember the older days of rivers with no one or few on them and fish to be had by guys that probably compared to today were not that great of fisherman but as we as humans keep expanding and taking more and more of the resources with the better technology that all use to get their share,its just a matter of time until lots of our resources start fading away and then its remembering the good old days. What we need is a good old fashioned plague, may the strong survive

Bob, this is how the CCA jumps in with both feet, and we have a lobbiest working behind the scenes at this time. This bill will make alternate commercial fishing methods legal which they are not at this time. Its a start.


HB 2266 - 2009-10

Concerning commercial salmon fishing gear.

Sponsors: Representatives Simpson, Orcutt, Dunshee, Upthegrove, Priest, Wallace

Yup ...GreatGrandpa could catch a hundred fish a year but he had two boys, Grandpa and his brother could still get fifty, still not to bad, but they each had two boys. etc etc etc

[qoute=cobbler cruiser]Do you really think you'll put the steelhead rod down? From reading your posts over the years, your just as passionate and crazy as any of us diehards. Not to be disrespectfull Keith but I don't foresee that happening! It's in our blood and represents our northwestern heritage dude!......alright I'm done. Scuse me. [/quote]

Honestly............... I'll sell out. It's my last goal with steelhead. I've caught my share, more than really. But I've never landed a 30. I'll sell out when I land a 69+ pound king in the lower 48 as well.

Well..... Call me negative but the writings on the wall. Excuse me for stepping up and saying it.... There's too many people and too few of fish anymore. Hatcheries will be on their way out in a matter of time and there won't be enough wild fish to supplement harvest. Go CCA.......

I'm headed out tomorrow to go and CnR Kings that just a few years ago was an amazing catch and kill fishery, yet another down the drink........................

Aunty......... The Sky is Falling........

Keith

I'm new to this board after following it for some time. This topic seems to have run it's course but before it goes away I have one question that seems to be missing in this discussion.

No one can dispute that our runs (both hatchery and wild) have been declining. Over that time there have been some minor adjustments to harvest policy but overall harvest (both sportfishing and commercial) has remained unchanged. The only expection seems to commercial netting (both tribal and non-tribal). What used to be a couple days a week now ends up being 5-7 days a week. The Boldt decision basically divided the harvest 50-50 between tribal and non-tribal, something we've had to live with like it or not.

Now for the question. Who is doing the counting to ensure that counts are equitable? I've had many streamside discussions with fellow fisherman and with some minor exceptions they agree that the netting schedule takes a far greater number of fish than the sportsman catch. In reality the current system begs for all sides to cheat, especially the tribal netters. The rational being that if you don't get your share someone else will. The additional problem with the tribal netting is they are on the honor system and WDFW can do little to stop them because they little control on how often they can net. Correct me if this is incorrect but tribal netting schedules are set up prior to the season with little regard made to the size of the particular run. Also netting in the lower areas of the river they have their shot at the fish before anyone else.

If we are going to do anything to change the current system all parties are going to have to give an honest account of how many fish are being caught. Otherwise at the present rate it's only the mater of another decade and there won't be any fish to fight over. We need an ongoing and healthy discussion on this or it will become a mute point down the road.