Doesn't matter Marz. You think different than they do therefore you are lumped into the heap with the real wingnut right.

No real debate here,......just left and right, black and white.

People cling to their political identities like 3yr old children clutching their favorite blanket. Should they give even an inch, then they would be going back on the years of diatribe they have posted here.

A sad state of affairs really.

Keep convincing yourself deficits don't matter KK and pray at the alter of Krugman that you are right.

Although, history shows a different outcome for those who choose to willfully ignore the consequences of monetizing debt. Ask your socialist buddies in Europe how their little experiment is working out for them

I understand you are so clung to your world view that it would be blasphemy for you to acknowledge this. In your case it seems the mind has grown stale and stagnant with age. So much for that "change".

I'm not a seller yet although I am positioned to be. Gold has a long way to go. Talk to me in December

I'd say both.

Oh the Irony....
California is the laughing stock of the nation due to it's insane liberal politics.
I'm constantly trying to defend my hunting & gun ownership on the outdoor message boards I play on.
And who rips the almighty Mecca of liberalism?
Another hard core liberal.
Wow.

It ain't so!!!!

Guess it's time I explain myself.....

4Salt I promise you, I am not a wingnut! I started this tread because this is the debate that's going on all over the country and amongst all races and political persuasions. It's a very emotional subject that need's light and political attention, without the shouting and name calling. I got this from one of the most respected liberal minded and caring people in Seattle. She helps others as best she can and is not a hater. She is very intelligent and educated. Both her and I are not a racist. Because we care to share, discuss and look deeper at this issue, does not mean that we have to ware the label Wingnut.. For me the issue is the need for legislative action regarding immigration laws, or the need to offer work permits in order to stop the extreme suffering that persist now. How about having them apply for citizenship and pay taxes and contribute to the general welfare. Surely we can find a legal solution.

Building Higher walls will not solve the problem or silence the screams of a hungry child on the wrong side of the ditch. Both parties are avoiding the issue and counting on our continued screaming and yelling, and not looking for resolve. Ignoring the voices of the people that are funding (tax Payers) this dysfunction, offers no answers. Yelling racist, or using the "N" word does not work, as all it does is creates a lot of noise and static while avoiding a civil solution to the problem. Have you heard of the threat to our Social security funds (that people paid in all there life) being depleted because of this issue? If it's true, we should care and demad answers, because those are our mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers that are being affected.

Instead of giving the banks all those trillion to take out of the country, maybe some of that money could have gone to help Mexico and it's people? I promise you, that issues involving Social Security for those that paid or are paying into it, and concerned about it's use, does not qualify that person as a racist for asking questions relative to any issue that threatens it's future. Because somebody is screaming "racist" louder, and getting attention because it sets off an alarm that triggers a reflex that has us jump into our bunkers(democrat, republican. liberal, conservative, etc.), while others are questioning how some (that don't qualify and not even a social security card) are getting this money that they have earned, and was deducted for SS retirement. Now they say it's (SS) running out, and to question inappropriate use of these funds is t be labeled a racist? I think not!!! I would rather they print more stimulus money, and use it to fund this dysfunction, or have it voluntarily deducted from passionate sympathizers earnings at a rate of say 25% in order to facilitate the issues involved(i.e.,Medical, housing,etc.).

I posted this to get reactions and input as to what others were thinking. I don't want the continued demoralization of a people (Mexicans) by requiring that they crawl on their belly's and begging in order to do us a favor (labor) in order to survive and care for their family's. The problem is that the Mexican and American government refuses to look at the realities of whats driving this dysfunction. The system on both sides of the boarder is set up in a way that results in the misery and suffering of those not lucky enough to crawl to Mr. Man's Apple orchard's or lettuce fields. The so called grunt work that they do( some say other American wont do), should pay a wage according to it's value. Food has more value that some paper shuffler in a suit and tie taking home 100 g's a year, and commuting 100 miles a day to an office to fake work ( to many chiefs and not enough Indians) . We need to rethink and organize so that the system is more equitable, fair and self sustaining, and not the dysfunctional and toxic mess it is now. The various diseases ( cancers, etc.)we see now are a direct results of the toxic ( physical, emotional and spiritual) mindset and behavior that most of us are program for. All I'm saying is that we can do better with running to get our guns and acting barbaric. I'm sure there are many like myself that will chooses to be true to their hearts, before surrendering to a reflex to duck and run to a bunker, and began firing noise at anything that challenges the imagine rightness the labeled (democrat, republican, liberal, conservative, etc.) box we get locked into. I'm still and Independent, and will remain so. There are many more that think like I do when it comes to getting us out of this mess.

Ideally, I would love to see a world without boarders, and all people having a right to a place under the sun as divine beings that are also blessed with the special gift called human life. That would be my wish (keep dreaming). It would be wonderful to expect our leaders to do the right thing in resolving issues, instead of the polarization, and offer up bait that will appeal for the hateful voter. That goes for both parties!!!! In the last election, I worked my tail off to get candidates elected and with success. I will continue to be politically involved and hope that I can support the best of the choices offered on the ballot. However, I see the potential of all my recent work getting erased, simply because, yet again the mass stupidity button gets switch on , via media and scarcity and presto......you get the picture.

After all, there ain't enough X, Y, Z to go around, and the ego wants it all.

You really are the King of the Pillow Biters aren't you? ,..........and Quatre Sel your faithful concubine

How did I know that you'd take one statement I made and twist it with your own childish logic. Then proceed to ignore the rest of my comments. Your tactics are old and tired, like you.

Your thoughts don't seem to travel much further than your limited scope will allow. If they did you might come to realize that I might have diversified myself sufficiently to whether financial storms good and bad.

To put it in terms you can understand,.....the market does good,....I do good,......the market does bad,.........I do good. One area of investments might not always perform but one will,......keeping my accounts in the black.

That said I have no wish, nor have I ever stated, that I want the wheels to fall off. Show me where I have or quit putting words in my mouth. If that's the only route you have to take it shows what a complete waste of space you are.

I have plenty to lose if the wheels do fall off. Which is why I have stated many times that the monetization of debt as opposed to liquidation will lead to currency problems in the fututre,.......as is being witnessed in Europe right now and as has happened to every fiat currency in the history of mankind.

Don't blame me that you're too stuck to your world view to pull your head out of your a$$ to take a look around and witness what is happening right in front of your face.

another topic derailed...

A few years back (Bush admin.) the left was preaching dread jut as much as the right is now. I am not saying it was unfounded, but there are plenty of issues with the current expensive solutions too. Both sides will have plenty to bitch about as long as there are 'sides'.

Once again proof that those caught up in drawing lines in the sand are solving nothing more than self confidence issues.

Back on topic, I read there was a woman raped behind a Safeway in Edmonds the other day and the rapist was an illegal immigrant... I am not saying that illegals are criminals but would better immigration enforcement resulted in this woman not being victimized?

Is there any viable solution to the immigration issue besides "building a big ass wall" or making legal US citizens that may be a little too brown feel victimized?

+ 8,000,000,001

Seems you imply that crime will rise or fall in direct proportion with illegal immigration. I highly doubt that.

Just a few ideas:

Make it easier for the illegal aliens who are contributing members to American society to become citizens.

Improve the conditions in Mexico.

Legalize weed.

So you are saying it will have no impact?

No impact on the rate of crime? absolutely. Well it would probably raise it. Crime rates are based upon a percentage of the population. I'm willing to bet the rate of crime amongst illegals is much lowr than among legals.

Oh, that's is the topic.

I would hope that to be the case, but the actions taken in AZ seem to suggest differently.

From my own experience, most illegals seem to obey the law more than the average American citizen out of fear of being deported.

Bottom line, I don't think profiling is a good solution but the federal action on immigration has been pretty weak, possibly forcing AZ to initiate federal attention to this issue by implementing this law.

Now this may not be the most PC post on this topic, but even though we live in a society that preaches against racial profiling, in this day in age I believe it to be at least a little necessary. On a whole, I am a little more leery of a sketchy looking middle easterner sitting next to me on a plane than I am a person of Spanish origin. I would not say that is being prejudice, more like keeping up with the times.

I do not know the ins and outs of what Arizona is trying to do, but why is it wrong for an official to approach anyone of Spanish origin and verify their right to be in this country. We have a big enough problem in this country with illegals that the people of Spanish origin that are here legally should understand the need to enforce what is right. If I was in an area where a crime had taken place and the description of the perp matched what I look like, then would I not scream bloody murder if someone verified whether or not I was the culprit? That is not to say that it would not suck to have a run in with the fuzz over a crime that I did not commit, but that is a part of life and I would get over it without trying to file a farcken lawsuit. I realize that it comes down to enforcement doing the right thing, but what is the right thing?

It is irritating how soft America is getting with EVERYTHING. And for those of you who think that illegals are only doing the jobs that no one else will do for nothing, then you should go to any construction site and see who is doing a majority of the skilled work. I would venture to guess that they send more money home than they put back into our economy.

Flame away if you like, just my two cents.

Lavro8 - I am tired of the Spaniards too! Although I have a hard time telling them apart from people like me until I hear their accent.

7 hour work days, with a 2 hour lunch siesta. NOT in my country.

He did promise... personally I think it is far past due.

One question remains though, how do they stop (or at least slow) the influx of illegals after a "pathway to citizenship" is implemented?

As long as US residents/citizens hire illegal immigrants, the US-Mexico border will remain porous. The solution is NOT a 2,000 mile long fence or wall manned with armed guards ordered to shoot anyone crossing. The solution is so simple even the stupid Dems and Reps in Congress could fix it by passing a law making it a federal crime, punishable by imprisonment to hire an illegal immigrant. But that would piss off the Senator's and Congressmen's constituents who hire those illegals. So they won't do that. If they do anything at all, count on it being complex and ineffective. Sound like a betting guy, don't I?

Sg

Remember that same wall to keep people out,.....can be used to keep you in.

Just ask the East Germans about that

It ain't any lack of common sense by Congress... or any stupidity on their part either.

It is the fact that the monied interests who control them and this country want illegals here competing for jobs, driving wages down, corporate profits up and keeping the citizens so preoccupied, fighting amongst themselves over what to do about it that they continue to completely ignore the fact that they're gettin' screwed royally by these very interests.

After all... it's SO much easier to blame Raul, his wife and 6 kids for all of life's troubles.