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#609046 - 07/03/10 03:39 PM Income Tax Initiative 1098
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4497
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Well 1098 appears to going to make the ballot in the fall. This should be a thing to watch as proponents present it as tax the rich & feed the poor. Opponents will say oh yeah rich now but our legislature will use it to get all of us sooner or later.

Well both are probably right. This link is to a wire service article about it. http://www.washingtonstatewire.com/home/3874-income_tax_seems_assured_a_vote_this_fall.htm

Read the article and understand why our tax system makes it so damn difficult for venture money ( people who have money to invest ) to create jobs. It is the S status corporations that I find most interesting and how the tax laws require income to be reported.

As the song said........... Tax the rich, feed the poor, till their are no rich anymore.................... song didn't say what the hell we do then.................... move to Mexico I guess.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#609048 - 07/03/10 04:01 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Rivrguy]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Rivrgy, I haven't read the initiative, so I don't know if this is coverec or not, but let me say this.....State income tax has been approved before, but was thrown out due to what is known as, "the uniformity clause" in Washington State's constitution.
I don't know if this intiative addresses that issue, but if it doesn't, I doubt it will fly......approved by the voters or not.
I'm pretty sure that a Constitutional amendment is required.....which should be interesting considering Eyeman's intiative requiring a 2/3 majority to increase taxes........
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#609050 - 07/03/10 04:14 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
How ya doin, Sandy?
Just what part are you referring to there, Genius?
Watch it, now.
I know your health might be a little shakey, and we couldn't have your lovely personality endangered.
Lay it on me.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#609053 - 07/03/10 04:19 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4497
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
KK he may not be able to read but has a point. Did not think to get the link but that was the conversation and some blogs.

Boiled the arguments ended up being as Slabby put forward on one side. BS called by the other BUT that provision and court decision is there. Proponents seem to feel the make up of the present state supreme court would allow it to be implemented ( basically striking down the old decision ).

My thoughts................... two years out then Belize so don't care but it will make good entertainment if it passes and the money and attorneys pile in.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#609056 - 07/03/10 04:23 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Rivrguy]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Here's a little C/P for you.....

I had to go find it because, you know, I might not be right....

In 1932, following passage of the only income tax initiative to be approved by state voters, the
Washington Supreme Court declared that for purposes of taxation, income is defined as a class of
property. Article IV of the Washington Constitution states that all taxes shall be uniform upon the
same class of property. Therefore, any income tax proposal either would have to be consistent with
the Constitution’s uniformity restrictions, or would likely require a constitutional amendment in order to
be implemented.

There is a chance that today's legislature may over rule the concept of income being property...but they haven't yet, Mr. BMI.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#609062 - 07/03/10 04:47 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ParaLeaks]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4497
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Yup, went back and found that attorney's blog and he was right with you. So it seems to be a fight on two levels. First the voters, then the courts as to if the present one will over ride the past court.

If the legislature tried to change definitions then more legal challenges and posturing. Hell this thing could provide years of entertainment.

Well lunch over back to the yard to get done as going to get a running start at the Patron tonight!

Everyone have a good 4th and stay safe. beer Well reasonably so, no need to get carried away!
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#609087 - 07/03/10 09:17 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Rivrguy]
Irie Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4317
Loc: South Sound
If an income tax in WA goes into effect, would sales tax be done away with?

Didn't think so.

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#609090 - 07/03/10 10:26 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Irie]
sodfarmer Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 298
Loc: sleeping in my duck blind
If income tax goes into effect ,will property tax go away ?
NO

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#609113 - 07/04/10 02:02 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Rivrguy]
Doctor Rick Offline
Free Prostate Exams

Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 1544
Loc: Sequim
Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich no more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzrUqAtUcpU



Edited by Doctor Rick (07/04/10 02:09 AM)

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#609123 - 07/04/10 08:07 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: sodfarmer]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Personally I'd like to see a tax system that addresses longevity. In other words, the longer you stay in your home, the lower the tax rate. Transfers a more appropriate burden onto those who move or speculate.....addresses those who live by the old "a house is not a home" thing.

Sales tax is a BAD tax as it is toughest on those who can afford it least, and IMO should be done away with completely and immediately.

As far as I'm concerned, our present system makes the underlying statement, "We'll tax you into the poor house and then put you on a program when you can no longer keep up."

And where are the politicians addressing these problems? No doubt in the back pocket of those who are least affected.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#609148 - 07/04/10 02:21 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ParaLeaks]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
SH,

You are describing Oregons system in regards to income and sales tax. It doesnt take much to qualify for the income tax.

CA has both. They all spend too much.

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#609285 - 07/05/10 09:19 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Fast and Furious]
driftfishin Offline
Fry

Registered: 07/05/10
Posts: 31
Sales tax takes consumption, income tax taxes wealth creation. Income tax doesn't hurt the rich most, it hurts the middle class most.

The rich generally don't have "income" or a paycheck. They have huge offshore accounts, tax shelters and income tax free municipal bonds. But they pay sales taxes when they buy yachts, pearl necklaces, mercedes, fur coats and eating out.

The poor guy with a beater car, buying food at the grocery store and spending most of his income on rent, doesn't pay hardly any sales tax.

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#609290 - 07/05/10 09:49 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: driftfishin]
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Who here can name ONE single person or company that went bankrupt because they were "overtaxed"?

Just one...
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#609320 - 07/06/10 12:11 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: driftfishin]
Irie Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4317
Loc: South Sound
Originally Posted By: driftfishin
Sales tax takes consumption, income tax taxes wealth creation. Income tax doesn't hurt the rich most, it hurts the middle class most.

The rich generally don't have "income" or a paycheck. They have huge offshore accounts, tax shelters and income tax free municipal bonds. But they pay sales taxes when they buy yachts, pearl necklaces, mercedes, fur coats and eating out.

The poor guy with a beater car, buying food at the grocery store and spending most of his income on rent, doesn't pay hardly any sales tax.


Actually, that's a complete steaming heap of crap.

Sales Tax systems are the most retrograde of all.

An 8% sales tax taxes all people roughly the same, it's just a much heavier burden for the lowest income levels to cover that expense on a week to week basis. For example, if you make $2000/mo you pay $80 in tax on your monthly purchases, it's going to be a 4% monthly rake, but if you make $8000/mo the same expense would be 1% of your monthly income.

Simple math. You failed. Welcome to the darkside.


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#609332 - 07/06/10 12:49 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ]
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Ya gotta see the show... it's a dynamo!
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#609351 - 07/06/10 08:08 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
"You will also not be allowed to fail without someone pointing it out."

New sig line for you, Sweetie?

rofl
rofl
rofl

How does "ego-maniac with an inferiority complex" fit, Mr. Opportunist?
Look in the mirror at your pathetic self and see how it fits.

(not a chance, right?)

So Laffin' rofl
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#609352 - 07/06/10 08:27 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: 4Salt]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Originally Posted By: 4Salt
Who here can name ONE single person or company that went bankrupt because they were "overtaxed"?

Just one...


While I can't name a company, simply because I don't care to research the complexities, there are numerous....no, make that one Hell of a lot of Senior Exemptions to the tax burderns of this State.....and the list is growing. Senior Exemptions are not only a factor of age, they are all about income. And for everyone on an exemption, you and I pay their share. I'm not judging whether or not that is or is not a good idea, just stating the facts.

Senior, and any other, Exemptions are all about "not being able to keep up"....hence the "put you on a program" I mentioned earlier.

On a side note let me say that it is my considered opinion that no one should be allowed to vote on a tax that they are exempt from. In a State where the senior population is booming, and so are the exemptions, the vote can/could/has been skewed by folks who have no dog in the fight.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#609356 - 07/06/10 08:50 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Originally Posted By: Kanektok Kid
Slabby:

You're worthless, best try keeping up over at Gaymfishin'.

The bar is low enough over there even you might clear it.

Naw..........................what was I thinking, you couldn't keep up on the short bus,


Just can't help yourself, can you, KK?
Now it's the unfortunates on the short bus?
You are a piece of work.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#609584 - 07/07/10 02:06 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ]
jvaughn50 Offline
Egg

Registered: 07/07/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Orting, WA
I have written three tongue and cheek initiatives this year. Inspite of the humor, each has a serious message. The most publicized was my Initiative 1069 to change the state seal to a tapeworm dressed in a three piece suit attached to the rectum of the tax payer. Around the vignette the words "Committed to Sucking the Lifeblood Out of Each and Every Tax Payer.

My second initiative addresses the personal income tax and is a rebutt to Bill Gates Sr Initiative 1098. Please get the word out to as many people as possible.

I wrote a tongue and cheek initiative that is a serious rebuttal to Initiative 1098. Ask yourself four questions:


1. Why would Bill Gates Sr. sponsor an initiative that would tax the rich?
2. Does it have anything to do with the fact the legislature is preparing to give Microsoft a $100 million tax break and amnesty for $1 BILLION in tax evasion?
3. After two years do you believe that the legislature would change the law to tax everyone?
4. After reading section 1. below, do you believe our state is any different than Connecticut?


Panhandling and Pick Pocket Tax For State Legislatures In Lieu of a State Income Tax

An act relating to education and fiscal reform; adding a new section to Chapter 82.04 by creating a 40% tax that will be applied to all monies received from the panhandling efforts, otherwise know as campaign contributions, that are from special interest groups. In addition, a 20% tax on all Democratic legislatures that voted to suspend Initiative 960 and increase taxes or pick the pockets of Washington State tax payers in order to pay for promises made while they were panhandling on the campaign trail. The 20% tax will be applied to all wages, salaries and other compensations received directly or indirectly from their elected office. The panhandling tax will also be used to offset or recoup tax dollars lost from Indian Casino revenues.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

Part I

Policies and Purpose
Sec. 1. Whereas Initiative 960 was approved by the voters to prevent the following:

In 1991, Connecticut was facing a revenue shortfall of about $2.7 Billion. Using that crisis, Connecticut's governor pushed hard for a state income tax. After a long stalemate with the General Assembly, the bill eventually passed. At the signing ceremony, Governor Lowell Weicker sounded optimistic. "When I sign this budget, Connecticut will be closing the book on its past and it'll be facing toward the future."

Now, 17 years later, we have a pretty good idea of what that future looks like: The income tax that was passed to close a $2.7 Billion deficit has been raised several times and now brings in over $7.5 billion a year. Add in the $350 million a year that the state currently receives from Indian Casinos, and Connecticut now collects nearly $8 billion more in revenue than it did in 1991.

Despite all of those extra billions, Connecticut is still facing massive deficits $1.2 Billion this year and another $6 to $8 Billion over the next two years. How could this happen? In Connecticut's case, out-of-control spending was the culprit. In 1991, when the so-called crisis was happening, the state's total spending was about $7.6 billion. In 2008, the total spending was $18.8 billion, an increase of 147 percent. To be fair, the $7.6 billion in 1991 dollars would translate to $11.4 billion today, but that still means the brainiacs in Hartford are spending 65% more than they were in 1991.

The point is that government knows how to get bigger. Try as they might to slim down, the natural order of things will always take over and ensure they grow larger than anyone thought possible. The only way to stop that, or at least slow it down, is by taking away their source of food: money and power. For this very reason the voters of Washington State passed Initiative 960 in an attempt to remove the tapeworm that is attached to the lower intestine of the taxpayers.
SEC. 2 Whereas, the Democratic controlled legislature failed to implement budget cuts, curb spending, eliminate wasteful spending and continued to spend tax dollars in order to provide favors to special interest groups, with a deficit in the next biennium that is projected to be as high as $8 billion dollars. In spite of this over $150 million dollars was identified as pork barrel spending by the Washington Policy Center’s Citizens Against Government Waste.
This serves as evidence that there was never any serious attention given to reduction in expenditures and that the legislature is committed to picking the pockets of the Washington State Tax payers while continuing to pan handle large sums of money from special interest groups.
Examples on Panhandling include:
1. Washington taxpayers are being asked to pay more than $2.5 million for a community Inviting House, Longhouse and Museum, which would primarily benefit the Suquamish Indian tribe. Yet, the tribe’s leaders are hardly short of money. They operate the nearby highly-profitable, and tax-exempt, Clearwater Casino Resort. $1.5 million for decorative lights on the Tacoma Narrows Bridge
2. $ 442,000 ”SAyWA” advertising campaign
3. $142,000 for Animal Massage practitioners.
4. $66,000 for Christmas Tree Inspections
5. $44,687 for Medicaid Checks for Services to Dead People
6. $31,723 Payments for paying WA State Ferry Employees to Ride the Ferry after Work
7. $254,694 Pension Payments to Dead People
8. $19,050 For Sole-Source Contract to Review Governor’s Communication Operation which appears to be another quid pro quo scenario since the principal owners of the firm gave a total of $2,922 in campaign donations to the governor. This contract comes on top of an earlier contract of $12,000 to another consultant to review the Governor’s communications operations and relations with the press.

Examples of Pick Pocketing include:
1. B&O tax increase on service businesses.
2. Limit on preferential B&O rate for manufacture of certain agriculture products.
3. Suspension of sales tax emption for livestock nutrient equipment and facilities.
4. Cigarette and tobacco tax increase. A tax of $1 per pack of cigarettes has been added.
5. Tax increase on carbonated beverages. Soda and such are taxed at 2 cents per 12 ounces. The bottler is exempt from the tax on the first $10 million sold. Tax is in effect from July 1, 2010, through June 30, 2013.
6. Sales tax on candy and gum. Candy and gum are subject to sales tax effective June 1, 2010.
7. Temporary sales tax on bottled water. From June 1, 2010, to June 20, 2013, sales tax applies to bottled water.
8. Beer excise tax. The excise tax on beer is increased from 26 cents to 76 cents per gallon. Microbreweries are exempt on the first 60,000 gallons sold.


Part II
Conclusion


Washington State Laws that apply to monopolies are focused on issues related to trade and commerce. If we purchase bottled water, gum, soda pop, candy and beer, we pay tax. The tax is on our sales receipt and the more we purchase the more tax we pay. Many business, particularly in southern Washington suffer from the fact that Oregon does not possess a sales tax and many residents cross the border to purchase products to avoid paying our nationally high sales tax.
On the business side of the equation, since 2008 six countries have announced plans to cut their corporate tax rates: Canada, Hong Kong, Korea, South Africa, Spain and Taiwan. In an interview in the Korea Times, Choi Kyung-hwan, a member of the new Administration's Presidential Transition Committee, said, "The corporate income tax reduction is not a matter of choice, but a matter of life and death for Korea in an increasingly globalized business environment.''
In a refrain that is equally applicable to the U.S., Choi went on to say, "Hong Kong and Singapore, which impose significantly lower corporate taxes than Korea, have further slashed taxes recently to draw more foreign investors. Also, France currently levies a 34.4 percent corporate income tax but plans to reduce the tax to as low as 20 percent. Unless Korea cuts corporate taxes, we will not be able to win over multinational firms."3 Note: Washington State is at 39.2%
The point is that taxes are directly related to trade and commerce. As a result, the monopoly laws that apply to trade and commerce are applicable in regards to the actions of Governor Gregoire and the Democratic majority in the Washington State legislature in regards to suspending I-960 and passing laws to increase taxes that directly impact trade and commerce. We contend that the actions of Governor Gregoire and the Democratic legislators vote to suspend I-960 to be a violation of the following RCW’s
RCW 19.86.020 Unfair competition, practices, declared unlawful. Unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce are hereby declared unlawful.
RCW 19.86.040 Monopolies and attempted monopolies declared unlawful. It shall be unlawful for any person to monopolize, or attempt to monopolize or combine or conspire with any other person or persons to monopolize any part of trade or commerce.
RCW 19.86.093 Civil action — Unfair or deceptive act or practice — Claim elements. In a private action in which an unfair or deceptive act or practice is alleged under RCW 19.86.020, a claimant may establish that the act or practice is injurious to the public interest because it: (3)(a) Injured other persons; (b) had the capacity to injure other persons; or (c) has the capacity to injure other persons.
By conspiring to create a monopoly, we contend that Governor Gregoire in conjunction with the Democratic members of the Washington State Legislature, violated RCW 19.86.020, RCW 19.86.040, RCW 19.86.093 and caused financial injury to the citizens of Washington State.
One specific example is that the Business and Occupation Tax know to be the most repressive tax in Washington State history. On July of 2005, Governor Gregoire stated during a meeting with the Clark County High-Tech Council that she was looking for ways to reform the B&O tax to make it less onerous on business and four years later in February of 2009, in a speech to the Association of Washington Business, Governor Gregoire stated that she would like to overhaul the business and occupation tax, calling the tax, "ill-conceived" and harmful to small businesses.
By creating a monopoly to illegally suspend Initiative 960, the Democratic Party was able to pass a number tax increases. One in particular was to raise the B&O taxes by 20% on service industries which Governor Gregoire repeatedly admitted was harmful to small business. This clearly violates RCW 19.86.093 (3)(a)(b)(c).


Unfortunately, collusion and violation of monopoly laws for which individuals in the private sector are prosecuted are conducted as standard operating procedures in Olympia. As a result, it is time to tax the tapeworm that is attached to the lower intestine of the tax payers.

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#609610 - 07/07/10 04:25 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: jvaughn50]
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13446
I really like your idea of taxing campaign contributions. Maybe you ought to get that initiative going for the next cycle. Who but the politicians and the interests who own them will object?

Sg

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#609635 - 07/07/10 07:03 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Salmo g.]
IrishRogue Offline
Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1714
Loc: Yarrow Point
Certainly the ABSENCE of state income taxes has had a real impact on my life in Washington:

a) I moved here to take a job with Microsoft, which Gates & Co. did NOT found in WA, but rather moved here from New Mexico. Beyond being Bill's home, I understand that the absence of a state income tax actually won Washington State a large prize for the past 30 years.

b) We regularly recruit and hire employees from out-of-state, and bring them here to stable, high-paying positions. The lack of state income taxes lets me offer comparable salaries to them as they are paid by my out-of-state competitors, and for the employees it's like getting a raise...

I'm very mixed on this legislation.
_________________________
The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan

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#609696 - 07/08/10 12:08 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Doctor Rick]
Idaho Mike Offline
Carcass

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 2190
Loc: Post Falls Idaho
Interesting how so many people in this state think not having an income tax somehow makes their tax burden less. Wake up folks, many states with an income tax actually give their citizens a tax burden less then that of Washington.

http://www.retirementliving.com/tax_burden_2008.pdf

Personally, I think creating tax policy through intiative is very poor. But, the failure of the Legislature and the Governor to make the tough political decisions to re-vamp the tax structure is even worse.

The state isn't over spending. We all know the state has to balance the budget and it is being done through short term fixes, such as cuts and targeted tax increases that don't hurt too bad politically. What the state isn't doing is dealing with the long term consequences of this recession.

By the way, special interest money is only money that isn't being spent on your interest.
_________________________
"90% of Life is just showing up and doing the work". Tred Barta Sr.

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#610112 - 07/10/10 04:02 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Irie]
driftfishin Offline
Fry

Registered: 07/05/10
Posts: 31
Originally Posted By: Irie
Sales Tax systems are the most retrograde of all.

An 8% sales tax taxes all people roughly the same, it's just a much heavier burden for the lowest income levels to cover that expense on a week to week basis. For example, if you make $2000/mo you pay $80 in tax on your monthly purchases, it's going to be a 4% monthly rake, but if you make $8000/mo the same expense would be 1% of your monthly income.


Cool. Everybody should pay their fair share. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's get rid of the sales tax and just send everybody an equal bill for the government cost.

Actually, that's not fair. The poor use government services way more than the rich. When is the last time you've seen a millionaire on welfare, food stamps or even riding the bus?

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#610113 - 07/10/10 04:24 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: driftfishin]
Irie Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4317
Loc: South Sound
Originally Posted By: driftfishin
Originally Posted By: Irie
Sales Tax systems are the most retrograde of all.

An 8% sales tax taxes all people roughly the same, it's just a much heavier burden for the lowest income levels to cover that expense on a week to week basis. For example, if you make $2000/mo you pay $80 in tax on your monthly purchases, it's going to be a 4% monthly rake, but if you make $8000/mo the same expense would be 1% of your monthly income.


Cool. Everybody should pay their fair share. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's get rid of the sales tax and just send everybody an equal bill for the government cost.

Actually, that's not fair. The poor use government services way more than the rich. When is the last time you've seen a millionaire on welfare, food stamps or even riding the bus?


You mean like no-bid contracts, federal subsidies, free State Patrol security details*, and "tax incentives??"

Ever bother to look up the costs of mass-transit, welfare, food stamps, & subsidised housing as opposed to kick-backs, contracts, and tax shelters?

Didn't fuggin think so.

A simple Google Search and 2 seconds with a calculator might shatter your entire stupid-ass world view.

Dumb schit.

Then again, if you weren't a complete retard, you wouldn't have posted anything as stupid as you just did, so I shouldn't even bother.







*Damn skippy! WA's corporate elite get State Troopers as permanent personal body guards courtesy of the average taxpayer.

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#610301 - 07/12/10 03:04 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Irie]
Krijack Online   content
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1527
Loc: Tacoma
Oregon has a state income tax. A little story about how that can work out. My wife was living in Portland when we were engaged. She had been quite sick that year and as a result she had lost her job. Because she wasn't feeling well she took a lower paying job at the location her cousing worked. They were both about 22 years old at the time and making a whopping $5.00 an hour. Her cousin had a 5 year old child from a teenage pregnancy . At the end of the year my wife had made just under $11,000 thousand. She ended up paying about $2000 in state taxes, social security and such leaving her a net of about $9000. Her cousin recieved a earned income tax from the state and from the Feds In addition, she was getting free daycare for her child which was running about $600 a month, food stamps of about $300 a month, and Section 8 free housing. At the time I figured out that her income, if you count the benefits, was about $32,000. Almost 3.5 times what my wife's income had been.

Any state income tax will eventually become full of exemptions, benefits and loop holes. As regressive as a state sales tax is, at least most of us can not get around not paying it. My gut feeling is that the second we get an income tax, we will see corporate exemptions, earned income credits, and thousands of other loop holes and exemptions. Those of us in the middle class will end up paying much more and spend more money to accountants for the priveledge to do so.

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#615022 - 08/07/10 04:26 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ]
JohnQ Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/21/08
Posts: 843
Loc: COF in the Upper Left Hand Cor...
Just a Stinky Little FYI on that particular Initiative Signature gathering . . . . . . .

"More corruption in good old Washington - State. By a good old union boss. Strange. I never heard a word about this fraud, did you? Washington is home of dishonest Democrats, and proud of it. The further down you read, the worse it gets.

Subject: INIT{WA}: The I-1098 Signature-Fraud Case: And the Name is --?

I have written several comments about *gathering signatures* on petitions - I find that a waste of time in most ALL cases.

The situation with *initiatives* is a little different in that most of the time the state initiatives are placed before the voters to be voted on . If they get the most votes they become law. However, in Washington State, there is a short time frame in which the legislature can GUT the initiative and that has happened several times - to the conservative initiatives - never to the leftist initiatives.... especially since the Far Left loonies have controlled Olympia which has been many years now.

Let me remind WGEN readers in Washington State of the $30.00 license tab fiasco. Remember Gary Locke saying he would guarantee they would never be higher than $30.00? What are you folks paying today?

Plain and simple - if the voters would CEASE to elect non-constitutional promoting people into office we could then begin the needed act of REPEALING all the unconstitutional legislation that has been passed. We don't need to "reduce spending - reduce taxes". We need to eliminate spending and taxes via repealing all those pieces of legislation (I won't call them *laws*) that have caused the phoney 'need' to spend and increase taxes. If we had candidates who would run on the promise of not passing any new legislation of any kind until all the unconstitutional legislation has been repealed the taxes and spending would go DOWN because there would be no need to feed that LIE that we need all those fraudulent agencies, personnel, CZARS, foreign aid - subsidies, and on and on. If we REPEAL the blood sucking parasites it is an automatic increase in the betterment of the tax paying American citizen. Not only would the COST of government drop like a rock but those restrictions placed on our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS would be gone.

I hope readers would begin to think of REPEAL rather than NEW Legislation. Why add more to the mix - why not burn off the bad material that has caused this mess? Go to the ROOT - stop chopping at the fingertips and split ends. Why are so many so afraid to do what is right?

Jackie Juntti
WGEN idzrus@earthlink.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The I-1098 Signature-Fraud Case: And the Name is --?

The Worst-Kept Secret in Olympia – A Witness Tells All

Elections workers process initiative petitions at the state elections office.

By Erik Smith, Washington State Wire, Friday, August 6, 2010

http://www.washingtonstatewire.com/home/4504-the_i_1098_signature_fraud_case_and_the_name_is.htm

OLYMPIA, Aug. 6.­Last month’s signature-fraud scandal in the campaign for Initiative 1098 – this year’s income-tax initiative – might be a dead issue by now if it wasn’t for one thing.

Until this point, no one has named the name. At least, not officially.

The name of the Service Employees International Union official who is thought to have forged 349 names on election petitions has been whispered all over this capital city, but it hasn’t been released in a formal way. Officials of the secretary of state’s office, which oversees elections, provided the name to the I-1098 campaign shortly after the questionable signatures were discovered, when election officials were still reeling in shock. The campaign and its leading supporter, SEIU, chose to disclose that the woman was a union official. But who was it? There’s been a cone of silence at the Capitol ever since. Attorneys decided the release of the name might get the state in hot water.

The state is under a court order not to release initiative petitions to the public, because of an unrelated lawsuit filed by backers of last year’s anti-gay-rights measure, Referendum 71. And attorneys for the elections office decided that applied to any information on those petitions – including the name of the woman who is now under investigation by the Washington State Patrol.

Yet there were plenty of witnesses to the discovery – at least 30 signature checkers were going over the petition sheets when the name was discovered. They all knew the name. There were others in the room at the time as well. They heard it, too.

And a public records act request has led Washington State Wire to an email that identifies the name – and a witness unconnected with the secretary of state’s office who saw the whole thing.

And the name is – ?

Well, let’s let the man tell his story.

Meet Eddie Spaghetti

Edward Agazarm, best known as ‘Eddie Spaghetti,’ is one of those players in Washington state politics who seldom shows up in a headline, but who has a great influence on the process. Spaghetti – everybody calls him that, he says – is one of the founders of Citizen Solutions, a firm that runs paid signature drives for ballot-measure campaigns. Since 2001 his company has collected millions of signatures.

This year his crews hit the streets for three initiatives – I-1053, the measure that requires a two-thirds vote of the Legislature for taxes; I-1082, the measure that would allow private insurance companies to compete with the state worker-compensation system; and I-1100, which would junk the state liquor stores and allow retailers to buy alcoholic beverages directly from manufacturers.

Spaghetti was at the elections office July 13, as election officials were finishing their random check of signatures for I-1082 and getting started on the next one – I-1098. Initiative Supervisor Teresa Glidden passed out big stacks of petitions and told the signature checkers to get to work.

And it didn’t take them long to find the problem.

Said Spaghetti, “Teresa just plopped this stack of petitions on my desk and said, ‘Look at this!’ I looked at ‘em, and I could not believe it.”

The signatures were all in the same hand, with the same pen. And there was something else he noticed. The sheets were neat – not rumpled, not folded, not torn. No petition looks like that when it comes back from the field.

He looked on the back, where the petitions are signed by the signature gatherers. Looked like the same handwriting.

Said Spaghetti, “All of them were signed by Claudia McKinney.”

Goes Straight to Google

Spaghetti said he watched in amazement as the signature checkers were told to look for any other sheets signed by McKinney. They also started looking at every petition sheet to see if there were any other tell-tale signs of fraud. Spaghetti said he had never seen such a thing – at least nothing as obvious as that. If anyone at the I-1098 campaign had looked at the petition sheets before they turned them in, he said they would have spotted them in an instant.

Emails that circulated within the secretary of state’s office back up the story. Election officials eventually found 20 of the woman’s petition sheets. Some of the signatures were legit, others not. Ultimately they say they found 349 signatures they believe to be fraudulent. Signature fraud is a Class C felony under Washington state law, punishable by up to five years in prison, a $10,000 fine, or both.

In a July 13 email, assistant state elections director Shane Hamlin said, “Teresa called me immediately after discovering these suspicious petitions. She said the handwriting looks like the same handwriting of the person who signed the petition gatherer declarations. She also reports that the names appear to have come ‘right out of the phone book.’”

The gang down at the elections office got an even bigger surprise when they went to the Internet and looked up her name. Elections director Nick Handy wrote to Secretary of State Sam Reed: “Googling [name withheld] shows a fairly prominent union official with SEIU, the Service Employees International Union.”

Who is Claudia McKinney?

Here’s what they found:

A June 7 blog posting on the SEIU Local 775 website that identified McKinney as a member of the state home-care worker bargaining team.

An April 14 blog posting on the same site that identified McKinney as a member of a Local 775 team that went to Missouri to organize home care workers in that state.

The June 7 blog posting has been altered since the fraud investigation was launched. McKinney’s name is nowhere to be found. Meanwhile, the April 14 posting no longer can be accessed from the union’s main page, but it can be reached from the direct link above.

Spaghetti saved a copy of the original blog posts and appended them to an email he sent to Reed. So the original version is part of the official record.

A Voter-Registration Violation?

McKinney is hard to reach. There are two listings for that name in Internet phone-directory records, both of them for apartments in the Sea-Tac area. But the phone is disconnected for one and there is no telephone listing for the other.

Ever since the story started getting around, there have been plenty of people interested in reaching McKinney. Among them is the King County elections department. That’s because there may be another crime involved.

One of the surest ways to locate a person is with voter-registration records. The law requires that a voter provide a birthday -- McKinney is 52 -- and a physical address. The address ensures the registrant votes in the correct district. Voters can provide a separate mailing address, but they have to swear they’re telling the truth about their residence, under penalty of law.

Voter registration records show that McKinney gave the address of an EZ Check Cash outlet just south of Sea-Tac International Airport at 19019 International Boulevard, also known as Highway 99. She listed her address as No. 267 – but it’s a post office box, not an apartment.

Kim van Ekstrom, spokeswoman for the King County elections department, said her office received a number of inquiries about McKinney’s voter registration after the signature fraud investigation was launched in Olympia. Strangely, she said, none of the calls have come from the news media.

Now her office wants to talk to McKinney, too. “We’ve tried to contact her to request a change of address but we have not been able to reach her,” she said.

Failure to provide a correct physical address for voter registration purposes is a Class C felony with penalties just as stiff as for initiative signature fraud. But in practice the crime is rarely punished. All King County wants is an updated card.

Voter registration records indicate there are 33 other voters living at the same address.

An Enormous Embarrassment

The affair has been an enormous embarrassment for SEIU, which has vowed sanctions against anyone involved in signature fraud – perhaps even revoking union membership. The union paid $345,000 to help get the income-tax measure on the ballot, and provided a legion of signature gatherers who circulated petitions for free. That augmented the paid drive the campaign ran at the same time. One persistent element of the rumor sweeping Olympia has been that SEIU was running a signature-gathering contest, and the signature-fraud suspect may have been working to win an all-expense-paid lobbying trip to Washington, D.C.

That part of the story appears not to be true. Although blog postings demonstrate that there was a signature gathering contest, and there was a winner – SEIU member Noel Bain – it appears that the contest was run by Local 925, not McKinney’s Local 775. The blog said he won with only 300 signatures, and clearly that wouldn’t have given him the top score if all union members were involved. Local 925 officials have since said that there was no winner, and blog postings referring to the contest have been deleted.

In an email message, Local 775 vice president Adam Glickman betrayed what may have been a bit of weariness with the story. Glickman said, “WE DID NOT HAVE A CONTEST FOR SIGNATURE GATHERING. PERIOD. ANOTHER LOCAL UNION DID. NOBODY WON. STORY OVER. We will look at pursuing sanctions if the person is found guilty of fraud.”

It’s a matter the campaign has to take seriously, of course, said I-1098 spokesman Sandeep Kaushik. But it appears the problem was a lone volunteer out of hundreds who worked on the campaign, involving just 350 signatures out of 385,000. “We don’t want this in any way to detract from the good and tireless work people did to get this on the ballot this fall.”

Spaghetti Blames SEIU

Spaghetti says the campaign isn’t an innocent victim. Somebody should have looked at those petition sheets. That’s what the pros do.

Spaghetti sent an email to Reed right after the signatures were discovered – and on this one, McKinney’s name wasn’t blacked out. Paid signature gatherers get a bad rap, he said, and he wanted to make sure everyone understood McKinney was a volunteer.

“As you know, I have been before our legislative committees nearly every year and testified that the greatest risk of such crimes comes from the overzealous volunteer, not the paid professional,” he wrote. “The instant case certainly bears this out. Claudia McKinney is NOT A PAID PROFESSIONAL.”

After Spaghetti got home the day the signatures were discovered, he said he went straight to his computer. He wanted to make sure McKinney hadn’t gathered any signatures for him. He was relieved to find out she wasn’t in the database.

“I think SEIU didn’t do right by her,” he said. “Her life is going to be ruined now. Chances are she’s going to get convicted, she’s going to have a criminal record. She’s not a young woman. She was let down. They should have caught it.”"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, kinda reminds me again of Chicago
_________________________
Upstanding Member of the Porcupine Social Club, ergo, the Old Prick in the Upper Left Hand Corner.

AuntyM -- What Crab Audit???? Not That POS Senior AssHat Published!!!!

Hey Mr Childers, have you corrected that Scofflaw Spreadsheet Yet?????

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#615196 - 08/08/10 10:53 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: driftfishin]
wntrrn Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 2562
Loc: Edmonds
Originally Posted By: driftfishin


The rich generally don't have "income" or a paycheck. They have huge offshore accounts, tax shelters and income tax free municipal bonds. But they pay sales taxes when they buy yachts, pearl necklaces, mercedes, fur coats and eating out.



I-1098 sets the "rich" level at 200k. Not quite what I'd consider rich.
_________________________
I swung, therefore, I was

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#615230 - 08/09/10 01:10 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: JohnQ]
topwater Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 442
Loc: Rocky Mountain High
Originally Posted By: JohnQ
long cut and paste


first, i'm opposed to signature fraud, and i'm even more opposed to paid signature gatherers who work on both sides of the aisle. the fact that there are companies out there whose sole purpose is to get initiatives on the ballot makes me a bit sad.

but your post seems to be more about attacking a republican "enemy" than about fraud. you're talking about less than 400 signatures by one person, but using it to attack labor unions.

my opinion, this is another breitbart / fox style BS story like acorn, black panthers, and sherrod.

attacking unions about initiatives is missing the true problem... the fact that the initiative process has been used and abused to attempt to destroy the state government and the essential services it provides by legislating poorly from the ballot... and it's only going to get worse due to the recent activist supreme court ruling on corporate spending in elections.

it also shows that the debate has shifted from actually discussing the issue of income taxes to issues totally unrelated. too bad.

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#615296 - 08/09/10 02:32 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: ]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4497
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Link to update on polls for the thing and who is financing it. It appears Bill Sr put up 500K as some other well healed AND the state employee labor unions and others which should not surprise anyone.

Oh yes dead even with 18% undecided.

http://www.washingtonstatewire.com/home/...er_for_2012.htm
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#615406 - 08/09/10 11:26 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Rivrguy]
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13446
I don't see taxing the rich like that actually raising much money, unless there are a lot more rich people in this state than I think. The way this will raise boucoup revenue is after two years the legislature can tinker with it, and apply the income tax to any income class or all of us, while leaving the sales tax at its present rate. I'm OK with a state income tax if there's no sales tax, or maybe a balance between the two, but I do fear having both a high sales tax and high income tax.

Sg

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#615462 - 08/10/10 05:43 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Salmo g.]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
no vote.

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#616201 - 08/13/10 08:07 PM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: topwater]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4497
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Link to the wire service feed and OFM's info of the financial impacts of the initiatives out there. The income tax thing has more revenue attached than pro side says / anti nothing new.

What I did not know was that WA had a about a 50% tax of the cost in booze... did not see that coming.

http://www.washingtonstatewire.com/home/..._management.htm
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#618436 - 08/28/10 12:05 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4497
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Update time. Two links but the one about PT's thought is interesting but both are entertaining.....sorta............

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/archives/219438.asp?from=blog_last3

http://www.washingtonstatewire.com/home/...say_experts.htm
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#618652 - 08/30/10 05:20 AM Re: Income Tax Initiative 1098 [Re: Rivrguy]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
They just raised taxes and still they expect anywhere from 2-3 billion shortfall depending on who you talk to. California has one of the largest economies on the planet, both state and sales tax and they have about a 20 billion dollar shortfall. Federal spending has only narrowed the gap on Pauls end. Peter is bankrupt. Bill Gates and the other whales have already said they will donate up to 90% of their wealth. So really the only guys left to pay it, are some doctors lawyers and business owners or investors. Ironic that the rich never seem to donate extra money to the government.

There was a recent article about suggestions of expenses or changes to help balance the WA budget. One guy brought up the idea that the million dollars boats and planes should have a lower tax burden because the owners already keep them out of state due to high taxes. Since the boat or plane is kept out of state, Washington also loses the jobs and revenue to keep that property running. The luxury tax passed by congress in the 90' was repealed a short time later after the luxury boats manufactures lost business and began to lay people off. Its a win win for lawmakers. Add taxes and then collect campaign contributions in order to secure more tax deductions. Ive read some of the various deductions provided by various congressman and the dems are just as fond of taking care of big Business and contributors as the other party.

Anybody know if the persons involved in the million dollar screw up on highway 16 at Tacoma has been fired? Last year 77 million went to pay for land for the stilly tribe to oversee. They cant sell it, but there is a lot of land for sale and the taxpayers cant afford it. Seems to be plenty of road work going on, especially the concrete section resurface work, where pins are installed in the section joints. The grout used is wearing away and the concrete is still cracking and giving a rough ride after a period of time.

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