http://www.cbbulletin.com/394852.aspx


Any bets on which one is going to have the highest mortality rates?

Tangle net will most likely have the highest mortality rate. What do I win?

How's 'bout instead of theories, we see if WDFW will answer point blank questions about both the intent (which I think the news release has already done) and most probably result on sport fishing from the development and implementation of selective LCR commercial fishing gear? Anyone want to bet that they waffle?

Sg

Salmo, they've been very clear in every single news release about the "experiment" from day one...the intent is to grant increased access to hatchery fish for the commercial fleet.

They don't even bother pretending otherwise, except for some very vague "may help" wild fish for some reason or another, usually by tying in the removal of about 5% of the hatchery fish off the spawning grounds, which outnumber the wild fish already by about 5:1...removal of a few more percent of them from the spawning ground won't do dick.

Whoever thinks the DFW's will say "Geez, you commercial guys have done so well at reducing your mortality per encounter, we've decided to reduce the allowable impacts (which is a fed issue, not a state issue), and give a goodly portion of your current impacts to the sporties so that they can continue to kill upwards of 10% of their wild fish encounters" is expressing so much naivete as to be laughable.

Fish on...

Todd

Coho could be a toss up since you can basically say boo at them and they keel over dead. Probably right on the Kings though.

In case you didn't notice, this debate is basically the same old rerun every month.

I propose we just post this whole thread for September and call it "the best of " and call it good.

A "full season" is not the same as "plenty of fish around to catch"...we can fish all month right behind the commercial guys and have a "full season", full of lame fishing.

If the non-tribal share is fixed, and the commercials get more, where do they come from?

It's not from the Easter Bunny...it's from us.

Fish on...

todd

Go ahead and test your theory. I'm curious.

Somebody please tell me where I can get some eagle egg omelettes!

Like he said, they've already answered the question...repeatedly...just not directly.

Fish on...

Todd

Wow. Really?

Fish on...

Todd

Aunty,

Could you go in to some detail about how that "share will increase in order to catch more hatchery fish?"

The shares don't really have to change at all for sport fishing to suffer. If commercial gear is more selective, and can catch 5,000 chinook in a 24 hour opening instead of 1,000 for a given number of ESA encounters, the sport fishing upstream of that point is going to be less successful, regardless of what the "share" is.

More of the evil hatchery fish can be harvested, but if the commercial harvest increases significantly, then regardless of shares, the sport fishing will occur with fewer fish in the river, and sport fishing success is positively correlated with salmon abundance. Increased commercial harvest means lower fish abundance, which translates directly into lower sport harvest per unit of effort. I don't see how it can be calculated any other way.

Sg

It can't...which is why "selective fisheries" are a gift to the commercial industry, not a boon to sportfishing or the resource, so far as the LCR springer fishery is concerned.

As I've said dozens of times...CnR, just like selective fisheries, are great tools when used in a situation when they benefit the fish and the fishing, and are useless if the situation is not appropriate for them.

In this case, it's wildly appropriate...if you're a commercial fisherman. Otherwise, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other to the resource, and a definite loser for sportfishing.

Fish on...

Todd

it amazes me how you think, when the commercials have a new method with a lower mortality rate than tangle nets for spring chinook it will take them longer and allow them to keep more hatchery fish before they reach there allowable esa take, does that totaly go over your head ??

then we have this commercial selective crap targeting hatchery coho, fall chinook, heck i wouldnt be surprized to see it in willipa and grays harbor, this is a recipe for sport fishing disaster in this state unless you like to fish and not catch anything.

At least we'll have a longer season to catch few fish...

Fish on...

Todd

Kinda like area 10 open for albacore all year with no limit.

...or a six fish limit on the Cowlitz when there are seven fish in the river...but, hey! It's a long season!

Fish on...

Todd

I don’t know about the rest of your theories, but I’m going to test my theory in the coming years by still catching Chinook on the CR without gill nets just like I’m accustom to now. Please excuse me now I’m having a craving for some cake.

In other words - the fishing sucked but the opportunity was awesome.

Which is precisely what the DFW's have been giving anglers with a 45 day 'season' that opens on March 1.

That is very funny. Sad but funny. Irony.


LuckyLouie, there is always something different brought to light when this thread repeats itself. When I first got on this list, at least 5 or 6 people would be cursing and spitting by now, and this time around people are challenging the ideas and not the individual. That's progress for us.
We are a little like sand paper, rubbing off some of the rough edges with each encounter.

Toddster, I understand the argument about how selective methods commercially would lead to more hatchery catch and potentially less for sporties. I think that allocation method is flawed given the changed dynamics of the fishery. We have to do better. Precedence is one thing, engaged decision is another.

SalmoG, Part of the problem, a big part, is that we don't have any clear indication of intermediate and long term plans by WDFW as to how the state actions would change given various outcomes of selective methods research. Yes, the stated intent is to increase harvest of hatchery fish via selective methods, but what is the planning for the numbers of hatchery fish released in the future depending on the outcomes? This is not a transparent process.

It is clearly not "fair" that sporties and general public taxpayers foot the bill and sporties contribute greatly to the financial weal of the state, and that commercial interests are "subsidized" by that. Yes, the public benefits by being able to eat caught fish, but the financial costs are carried by many and the benefits go to the few.

Not really a "free" market.