Phishing for info...

In many situations, and I think this is one of them, the two sides (non-Indian commercial and sport) are cumulatively too large to share the resource. There are not enough fish to go around. Maybe, if we put in about 50 years of restrictions on harvest, development, pollution, water diverions, and so on then we could recover the runs to a size large enough to support the two groups. If not, one needs to go away.

Well, there's a start, we're on common ground now.

I think conditions could be better for us sporties and still have a seafood industry. I don't think sporties would ever begin to tap the tuna resource, or the deep water bottom fish, for a couple examples. I think a lot of sport fishermen would be willing to make some tradeoffs to get some improvements too.

Whomever "takes" from the resource, it should not be exploited beyond it's capacity to renew, or even rebuild if there is a viable potential.

Can we consider this common ground too ?

You're dreaming..... It won't happen....

Keith

Is the internet not the perfect place for dreaming ?

Remember, I started out asking why this multi bazzillion dollar economic hammer never seems to swing...and I came to that question by reading about it on the internet.

Yah sure, what the hell. They dragged Puget Sound to death. Lets make some trade offs. Keep dreamin Dragger.

What are some of your ideas for improvements to the situation ? Do you propose shut down every commercial fishery and seafood market, and restaurant ? Do you only want to shut down commercial fishing on species that migrate into fresh water ? You must have an opinion on what would be better since you seem to be very unhappy with the current situation...I promise not to laugh as long as you put forth a little effort, that last remark was pretty weak.

And built a fricken metropolis right down to the edge of the water, built dams on the rivers, and in general reproduced like rabbits, etc, etc...

This topic pertains to where we are at right this second, and what might be a good path for tomorrow.

Ah yes, Aunty wants it to stop when she is on the spot...if you don't have any ideas you could just say so.

Sports catch 1% of the West coast albacore harvest.
So what were you considering trading?
End all LCR mainstem commercial harvest, shift the 2% mortality allocation to the sport fleet, commercial harvest from the SAFE Areas, sports maximize the economic potential.
No more allocation wars, abbreviated bag limit or seasons.

I don't have the answers, I was hoping to start an interesting conversation with some ideas hitting the table.

What would happen if there was no commercial market for King and Coho salmon ? Could there then be a practically endless sport season with very liberal limits ? Would the sporties then allow other renewable resources such as Pink and Chum salmon to become commercially managed ?

What about end all commercial fishing/crabbing in inside waters ?
Can the Native net fishermen be influenced to avoid endangered stocks/species in exchange for more fish in total ?

Who/What will fund the hatcheries ?

I know the tuna are largely managed by commercial fishing, same thing for black cod, and several other species... I think there are a lot of fish that can be harvested commercially and keep the seafood industry afloat. What about halibut ? With an endless salmon fishery could the sporties get used to getting their halibut at the restaurant/market ?

Bottom fish ?

Just putting some stuff on the table for discussion.

Im already laughing. Join in. We are suppose to give you ideas to benefit you? Who elected you negotiator? Restaurants and grocers are not guaranteed a supply of seafood at the expense of the diminished resource. You miss the dead end sign?

The restaurants and grocers can get them from the Tribes. Or, we can stop selling wild-caught fish as we have done with wild-caught ducks, geese, deer, etc.

With this massive economic hammer looming over the heads of policy makers, it would seem anything could be done...

I always hear complaining about mismanagement, I was just wondering if the complaining could somehow be converted into constructive criticism...

By your definition, a serious discussion is where you talk, and others nod ?

Oregonian:

You initiated this thread with a rather absurd statement and have added absolutely NOTHING of value to the discussion. Rather, you have merely kept sticking a hot poker into valuable and informed input from others.

And when this was gently and politely pointed out by AuntyM you responded with another post that provided no information but, rather, simply attacked the poster.

I just wanted to point out my perception of your inability to add anything meaningful to this discussion.

So what have you personally done to represent your interests and/or the interests of the resource with your politicians or ODFW? Hint: This thread does not qualify!!!

Oregonian's question is an important one, and I think the answer is that we sportfishers are too hung up on our personal agendas to find our common ground, pool our financial resources, and beat the commercials at their own game (lobbying, for those of you who missed the intent). The reason commercial interests have dominated regulations for so long is that they are organized and putting their money where their mouths are. Sporties are clearly pumping more money into the economy, but that money is not being spent in political circles, which is where the balance of power lies.

Is that the answer you were looking for, Oregonian?

I agree with FleaFlickr-
This whole thread (other than a few comment) has been a good one and full of thoughts and ideas. Oregonian has made some interesting statements, I never read into his statements anything other than trying to get people to open up. I don't care if he is a commercial or sports-fisherman or both, it really does not matter as long as ideas keep coming out and people get involved. Attacking each other is exactly what the "other" side wants! They stay focused and with one voice, as soon as we do the same, we will win.
There is no easy answer, but if we don't keep talking about it, nothing will happen that is good, that has been proven for the last 30 years!

FF since you registered only one year ago, you have missed quite a lot of the effort. Olympia gave us no chance of saving the commission. Advocy is stronger than you think.