Sorry that I've been behind the curve on this thread. Purposely recused myself from participating due to the typical way this subject goes sideways FAST in a predictably polarizing fashion.

This one has taken a much more cordial turn, moving the merits of selective fishing forward....and so here I am.

The singular constraint on gillnets accessing harvestable wild Chehalis coho in Grays Harbor is wild Chehalis fall chinook impact. Fall chinook were forecast at Tier 1.... total run-size at or below 110% of escapement. In that scenario, the fisheries are to be manged such that no more than 10% of the run is incidentally killed by all parties. The state assumes it has a 50% share in the conservation burden and so it structures its fisheries so as to cap chinook mortalities to no more than 5% of total run-size. Logically one would assume the tribe is responsible for managing the other 5%, but that's another matter altogether.

So in that sense, it is very similar to the situation of LCR spring chinook in capping the fishery based on impact. However, the abundance-based Tier Plan for Grays Harbor preferentially allocates chinook impact to the recreational fishery at the lowest levels of run-size forecast. We have included specific language in the gillnet fishery that states "without reducing the recreational fishery". Basically that means using the available 5% chinook impact on a Tier 1 chinook run-size forecast to fully fund the recreational harvest of a Tier 4 coho run-size forecast. Once that has been satisfied, any remaining available chinook impact could be spent on getting some days for the commercial fleet. In the case of 2010, there were enough expendable chinook to fund two days of NON-treaty gillnetting.... about 56 dead chinook per day is what the model predicts.

At larger chinook run-size forecasts, the gillnets get a progressively bigger share. At the point at which we have roughly 3000 harvestable chinook (surplus to escapement goal) the fish are allocated roughly equally. At run-sizes significantly exceeding that level of surplus, the allocation preference then shifts to the gillnets.... but again with the stipulation that a fully liberalized recreational fishery in NOT reduced.

Thank you for taking the time to reply Doc.

When I have a little more time today I will digest all of that and shoot you some questions.

I believe the key element of the GH Plan is the specific language that states "without reducing the recreational fishery".

The rationale here is that at low adundance, maximum benefit to society is derived by granting a harvest priority to the recreational fishery. The economic engine simply runs a lot harder when fueled by sport-caught fish. Why would policymakers squander the maximum value of an extremely limited resource by harvesting those few fish commercially?

However, at higher levels of abundance, there are simply more fish available than could EVER be possibly harvested in the recreational fishery. Once the maximum economic benefit has been realized from a fully liberalized sportfishery, additional value can be extracted from the resource by harvesting the remaining surplus commercially.

The key will be determining the run-size threshold (basin by basin) where that shift in allocation priority should begin to take place.

Ask yourself this.... would I even care how many the commercials took as long as biologic escapement needs were being met and sufficient fish were present to fuel a robust sport fishery?

I don't think there would much of any resistance if we were talking about commercial harvest at the dam and falls, the controversy is over being low holed by the commercial fleet for the entire season.

the only way IMHO to fuel a robust sport fishery is to fish over a large abundance of fish and that means no commercial fishing until the last possible minute.

Doc,

I respect your knowledge in life/job...

But this post is plain stupid.......

Where you going with this?

That attitude will get sportfishers hosed...

Keith

FREETOOL,

Where'd you go? You gonna help me understand this?

In all do respect, thanks for the compliment of a decent fisherman.... But in reality, you need to dig a little deeper to understand................ Hello????

Keith

We have a state mandate to provide meaningful sport AND commercial fisheries while conserving the resource.

Just exploring new paradigms for BOTH fisheries to co-exist without destroying the resource.

Sport priority at low run-sizes seems to be working fairly well in my neck of the woods.

Chehalis was constrained to a whopping 24 hours of NON-treaty gillnetting this season. Sports got a basinwide opener beginning Sept 16 with a 2 wild coho retention top to bottom in the mainstem Chehalis all the way down to the bay. Lots of happy folks from the feedback I've been getting. If that's getting phucked, then I say bang away!

If you've got better ideas, I'd love to hear 'em.

Keith,

I read the aforementioned post several times and fail to see the stupidity.

I agree with Doc. If you've got better ideas than I'm all ears. Otherwise calling something stupid while failing to quantify just exactly why something is stupid. Is just plain,....... well,....... stupid.

Doc I have more questions about the Tier system and who and how they come up with those numbers. Pre-run forecasts? Will or would there be mid-season adjustments if escapements are not what was expected?

the definiton of meaningful is wide open, look at the screwin we took on willipa, a no commercial fish zone while the commercials were fishing up and down stream of it ??, if this is the definition they can kiss my ass i aint fishin there anymore.

The numbers for each Tier were determined by the GH Salmon Advisory, of which several forum members are active participants.

In-season management is something we have pushed for in the past 6 years.

Unfortunately, the co-manager agreement specifically states "there shall be NO in-season management".... no adjustments mid-run.... with the singular exception of makeup days for the tribe if conditions are deemed unfishable or they get skunked for the day.

Sadly the potential for funding in-season monitoring is not something that's likely to materialize given the pending cuts WDFW is likely to face in the next budget cycle.

Brutal,........and not the answer I was hoping for. Although it was the answer I was expecting.

Thank you for the info Doc and keep up the good work.

I do agree with Doc on many of the "happy fishermen" with this years allotment. The September 16th opening was awesome...jacks and hatchery silvers were around....personnally I would like to see a September 1 opening...believe me...many years the hatchery silvers and jacks are there.

The problem is the low escapement numbers in the Wishkah, Wynoochee, and the Satsop.......we need to deal with this problem!!!!!! Until the numbers in these 3 rivers meet the escapement goals, then it shouldn't be "business as normal".

We'll see what the NOF meetings bring for the 2011 fishery.....just can't believe it'll be a liberal as the 2010 has been.

OK guys...

The river MAY fish for a day or two more before the rules BELOW Fuller change over to NON-retention of wild coho.

Chehalis River (Grays Harbor Co.) from mouth (Hwy. 101 Bridge in Aberdeen) to Fuller Bridge.
Sept. 16-Oct. 31. Min. size 12”. Daily limit 6. Up to 2 adults may be retained. Release CHINOOK and CHUM.
Nov. 1-Jan. 31. Min. size 12”. Daily limit 6. Up to 2 adults may be retained. Release CHINOOK, wild COHO, and CHUM.

The bulk of the hatchery fish (what few of them came back) have already passed thru the mainstem and into the tribs. The already high proportion of wild fish will be further accentuated in the coming month. This is exactly the scenario WDFW predicted will happen. This is prime run-timing for wild Chehalis coho bound for Wynooche and Satsop. Recent rains have likely pushed a good shot of them upriver as well. Definitely a good thing for wild escapement.

If you habitually fish Chehalis below Fuller and encounter a lot of brand new platinum coho with loose scales, please think about relocating if you are seeing a high incidence of high-finners. These are HORRIBLE catch & release fish with a VERY high mortality. You'll be sending a lot of dead fish to the bottom of the river.

Consider fishing Chehalis above Fuller where wild fish will be legal to harvest without impacting Wynoochee or Satsop stocks. Or head far enough up the Satsop where you are far more likely to encounter fish that have already hardened off (scales set and adequately slimed). These wild coho will tolerate and survive their C&R encounter much better than brand new ones. And PLEASE do the system the biggest favor you can as a consumptive user of the resource.... bonk EVERY hatchery fish you encounter!

is this good for sportfishing ??

But for commercial fishermen, it could mean an opportunity to increase their harvests, and additional fishing seasons

http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2010/aug/24/tribal-tests-of-selective-fishing-drift-down-the/

no comment ??

typical 25 dollar response.

No matter how you cut it Aunty... It's not going to be pretty on the CR "IF" this all goes through....

Keith

"Reviving imperiled salmon and steelhead stocks while boosting a sagging commercial fishing industry will require compromise and change, Anderson said."

That's what I love to see....

Keith