Just because someone practices a more difficult method of angling doesn't make them an "elitist". What it does is make them a thinking angler.

A "bait chucker" (I like your phrase) is a person who hasn't come to that stage in his life where he feels the need to make things more difficult. He's still stuck in numbers of fish or size of fish.
Remember that making things more difficult generally lessens numbers caught or size caught.

And if you get a yahoo like that who also thinks his way is best... then you got a person who has some lead between his ears.

I fly fish by choice. It's my choice and I don't try to ram it down someone's throat.

What I do try and ram down there is that they should think and not just shoot off their mouths to be heard. Usually in that case the person who wants to hear them most is the person doing the loudest talking.

Anyone who thinks the "powerbait" argument was over which angling method was the most correct has that lead between his ears. What it was about was angling ethics, cleaning up after yourself, cleaning up after others who are messy (and there's a bunch of those) and trying to remove "lead" from anglers who call fly fishermen elitists..

Fishfreak, I would think that you of all, since you profess to be a big brother, you would understand the part of assisting others in ethics and thinking in more than just an egocentric manner. I mention "egocentric" as thats the methods kids think in.. them first and others second.. if they even take the time to think of others.

Egocentric thinking is what I observe when I usually see a gathering of bank fishermen... and what's left over when they depart to go back home.

I've fished with some of the posters on this board, FishinfellaS for one. I went with a bunch of strangers last spring on a lake clean up. Tied flies with others from this board. Yanked a few's chains with my stories of bank fishing trips....

But there's a few you you new people I have my doubts about.

So... next....

I think that I just had to have my say. I've been reading alot of posts these last few days and had to speak my piece.
I'm not against any type of fishing as long as people don't break the law when they do it.In fact I usually get along with most people.
And I'm going to add one more thing before I go. They used to plant the rivers with the with catchable trout,But that was before most of you were born.
As for leaving bait containers on the banks. You ought to see all the worm boxes alond the upper Sauk river in the summer. It's a no bait river.
Just an old man Bit*hing :p

I do want make something very clear from my previous post. I support all types of fishing - just ask Carl C or Tom J if I like to catch and release - YES! And I will agree that fly fishing has a higher skill level than tossing bait or trolling (my favorite method). I was speaking from the point of view of a PETA person to illustrate how positons that we think are superior can be twisted given a different point of view. I don't think fish have a memory of pain. Of course none of us will really know unless The Buddha was right and we all come back as fish. In which case you catch and release guys better handle me with respect! And you power baiters better bonk me quick - no tossing me on a stringer to die a slow death please.

To Mike: who points out that PETAS believe C&R flyfishers torture fish rather than
killing them let me ask: Would ya rather be tortured briefly or killed and eaten
if you were a fish?
Besides who cares what PETAS think except other PETAS. Fish have very little if
any nerve centers in the bony tissue in their mouths. They are probably frightened
when hooked and yanked around, but doubtfull if they hurt much.
When you meet a PETA to argue with tell them: Well I believe if GOD didn't mean for
us to eat fish and animals, HE wouldn't have made them out of MEAT.

To MCougar: Who ask do I eat fish I have to reply I have eaten one or more
fish of nearly every type Washington supplies. I used to be a catch and kill
steelheader of some proficiency and also trout at a young age, before I became educated
around age 30.

I still eat a few (between 10-20/yr.) trout per year. I get them exclusively at brook trout lakes
which I know are overpopulated or at Catch and Kill lakes where I know they will
be eaten anyhow.
If you think that makes me a hipocrite, think again. Conservation is Wise Use not NON
USE.

Point taken, but consider this - did you ever imagine the trapping initiative that passed banning traps? (and also the hunting dog issus)A classic case of a non-user group dictating the rights of a user group. Who's to say that in our most liberal state of Washington we couldn't see a similar ban on various fishing methods, be them catch/kill or catch/release?
As to the kill vs. torture issue - it's not briefly tortured but tortured for it's own sake to be tortured again another day. I'm trying to get into the opposition's head and think how they would think. Actually, that particular group would love to ban all fishing regardless of the method or catch/kill/release.

If thet ever get their way and ban fishing because it's cruel to kill fish. What will they do next. Ban the killing and eating of meat animals. Cows,sheep,horses,chickens,ducks,deer,elk,bear,cougar,turkeys,and etc. the lists could go on forever. What are we to become,a world of plant eaters. Then some would complain about eating plants because they suffer.
It seems like it never ends,If people don't comlain about one thing they complain about something else. It's just our nature.
I think this is enough and we should get back to what this board is all about.

FISHING. I would like to hear some reports on fishing.
Just an old man that has nothing better to do at the moment. Jim S.

Old Man, Thank Yooouuuuu! I am all for hearing about more fishing!!

Have been on vacation for a few days and spent the last couple hours reading these interesting threads. . .

Just wanted to agree with FF and ZL in that most of the responses have been totally misguided and off point. I don't believe that they were insulting/denegrating/bashing baitfisherfolks, but rather are trying to convey a conservation message. Conserving both the quality of the environment on the lakes/rivers (trash reduction) and the quantity/quality of fishing opportunities for all.

As a former baitfishing troutivore, I have seen too many unfortunate situations where people routinely (knowingly or unknowingly) violate the anti-'grading' law. Yes, thank gosh for cell phones, but often there just are not enough DFW officers employed in this state. Heck, we regularly see posts on this website of people boasting about 30 or 50 fish days while using worms and/or powerbait. I think many folks just are unaware of the grading/baitcaught rules.

While still an overgeneralization, after I began C&R flyfishing exclusively 10 years ago, I noticed that 'managed quality' waters were noticably cleaner and, go figure, had BETTER FISHING! There's probably a reason for that. I would guess that the people who care about conservation and good fishing (that's why they fish the special regs waters) are also the ones who care about picking up their trash.

Having said that, I agree with ZL and FF that the continued use of our state waters as grocery stores and garbage dumps will bring about the ultimate demise of the sport for all of us. The responsibility of remedying this situation lies not on flyfisherfolks or baitfisherfolks or C&R folks or troutbonkers or any group, but the ultimate change must come from the ethical behavior of the individual regardless of the fishing method used. Unfortunately, that brings us back to the need for so many laws and regulations - the ethical behavior of some individuals is dependent upon the profit they wish to derive from their behavior. If they want a cooler full of trout, then they will rationalize their behavior by whatever means necessary. If they're too darn lazy to haul their trash out, then they'll come up with an excuse for that too.

Now I'm off from the pulpit and into my pontoon boat. . .

Hey Old Man! I just posted another 6 reports today. Some great fishing is going on out there. I think we've flogged this horse enough. Send me a fishing report next time you go out.

on this site??? i dont think so...

Thanks Stifler, I was going to say that myself. I recall one post, but it wasn't clear as to the method being used. I try to not post reports that have blatent regulation violations. I don't need the aggrevation!

Well Mike I read your reports. But I don't think that I'm going to travel that far at this time of the year. From where I live those places are a bit far for now.

They're suppose to plant some ponds up in my area in March,but they haven't yet. According to the WSF&G they are to plant #5's in there. Now that would be fun on a fly rod.

10,000 fish between March and June I think.
Jim S.

I am headed out the door with my fishing partners bear and casy{dogs}
We are going to go powerbaitin!!!{notice I did Not say fishin}
I am going to use little ,sticky sharp treble hooks that will most certainly hook the fish in the GUTS.
I was told that there are some TRIPLOIDS in this lake and I will hopefully kill one of those overgrown science experiments.(If it ain't nature it is not worth savin)
And when I get my limmit{how many is that?}I will leave looking back on a nice clean launch because instead of crying on a websight. I picked up all the trash, yesterday.

I come over hear because another long steely season is over and I always celebrate by hanging out at my favorite launch and powerbaitin with some of my favorite retired guys.I printed this post up so that I can share this with them.I guess many of you think it is wrong to sit by a lake waiting for a pole to twitch enjoying good conversation with a friend.Thats too bad because ya do not know what you are missing.
As far as trash goes JUST PICK IT UP!!!!!.I am a married man with no kids.I always have extra room in my trash can.I bring home an easy bag a week of trash from our rivers and lakes.It sucks that the trash ends up where it does but it sure feels better to JUST PICK IT UP than it does to cry and point fingers to sanctify ones self.
I can fully apreciate wanting c/r lakes to enhance the fishery.As the population grows there gets to be less and less that is hidden from the masses.To alot of us fishing is more than a day on the lake and quality fisheries are needed to satisfy that need.
I do not waste time with people that think they are better than others.Plain and simple.I get a good picture of all the ETHICS involved with the fly flickers every fall at CHICO CREEK.



Weather is turning nicely from steely to trout weather!I get to go from FISH ON to GOT ONE!

What kind of power bait do you use. The turbo or the regular. I wouldn't waste my money buying that crap. Besides it is starting to go up in price. Just think how many flies I can tie for the price of power bait.

I used to fish Chico Creek when I was a kid. Used to have a lot of fun fishing it. We would start out where it emptied out of Kitsap lake and follow it down. You probly can't do that any more because of all the private property.

Just an old man mussing. Jim S. :p

Stifler & Mike:

Originally posted by Trout Daddy:
we regularly see posts on this website of people boasting about 30 or 50 fish days while using worms and/or powerbait.

Stifler's reply:
"on this site??? i dont think so... "

Well, FYI, I found these in about 30 minutes from archived posts:

Date:: 28 Apr 01
Wilderness Lake

We started out by trolling just worms. We caught only the small planters. We were able to release most of them without their bleeding
________________

Date:: 5/21/01
Beaver Lake

All between 9 and 10 inches. Used worms. Catch and release.

___________________

Date:: 5/8/01
Pine Lake

Me and my buddy were fishing with worms. Almost instantly I got a hit, not a big one, just a ten incher. Then I cast it out again and brought in another fish. This one was a fat twelve incher. I released both fish. I've seen a lot of dead fish out there this year, which could mean that we won't have a lot of large fall rainbows this year. I'm not sure what's going on.

____________________

Jan. 8, 2000
Lake Washington

We were trolling for Trout using down riggers equipped with,
wedding rings, pop gear, and a worm. continued trolling as we
reached the Coulon park area we started getting hits. Nice Rainbow trout 26"
long and about 5 lbs. we snapped the pictures and released the fish to be
caught another day.

____________

Date:: 06/09/01
Lake Goodwin

I changed to a wedding ring tipped with a small ball of power bait on a large split shot. I won't tell you how many fish we caught and released (you wouldn't believe me anyway) but they all fought well.

___________________

Date:: 3-26-01
Bradley Pond

Caught and released 5 of the planted rainbows (7" - 9") on a worm spinner.

_________________

Date:: 5-3-1
Clear Lake

Fished mid day trolling Wedding ring and worm. Caught and released limit of small 8 inchers.

_____________________

Date:: 9-24-01
Silver Lake

CAUGHT FISH WITH WORMS DRIFTING ON BOTTOM WITH ONE LITTLE SPLIT SHOT ...RELEASED THE ONES I CAUGHT...ALL ABOUT 10 INCHES RAINBOWS

_______________________

Date:: 5/5/01
Spanaway Lake

Used a slip sinker and floating Powerbait fished a couple feet off the bottom. It was windy so I just let the wind blow me back across toward the boathouse. Drifted probably half way across then rowed back and repeated. Caught and released seven trout(8-16") in two hours. They are there if you want them.

____________

Date:: April 30, 2000
Lake Kapowsin

Fished the lake with a partner for about 8 hours. Using wedding
spinners tipped with worm, we caught and released about 12 rainbows
ranging from 8-12 inches. Seen quite a few bass in the shallows
one was about 7 pounds. All in all a good day.

____________________

April 17, 1999
Spanaway Lake
Started at 10:30am and fished for "bows" about two hours with no luck. Then floated powerbait 8ft below the surface with a slight breeze allowing a slow drift. Caught my limit in 40 mins. Released another 12 during the same time. Largest was 3 lb rainbow.

________________

Aug 28,1999
Cottage Lake

Caught many small trout and released all the healthy ones. Then I got into two larger, about 13-14 inch rainbows, on garlic marshmellows and cheese eggs.

___________________

Sept 26,1999
Green Lake
We were using orange powerbait and the guy next to us were using worms. That guy left with 4 rainbows averaging about 12-14 inches and we caught 6 rainbows. The biggest one was about 13 inches. The trout were so damn active that when I cast the bait in, they hit before I can set the rod down on the rod holder. By the way, we didn't keep any of the fish we caught cuz I have a feeling that the toxins are still in the lake and it wouldn't be safe to eat so we released all of them.
___________

I respectfully disagree with your comments about there are no (or few) posts bragging of lots of baitcaught fish that have been subsequently released.

Great Posts guys. It should make the guys that are in Denial, or are Rationalizing
take a look at themselves in the mirror.

While I personally think a person is plain STUPID to do this while baiting when you could be flyfishing
and conserving these released fish.....I must point out it IS LEGAL to catch and
release 5 fish only on general reg. water. But you MUST stop fishing when you reach
FIVE (5) because you have just killed them anyhow. That's the LAW!

Hey Trout Daddy, let me wipe the egg off my face and I'll post a responce.
I know - it depends on your definition of the word "is".

If you keep trying to get more people to fly fish,there won't be any room left for all of the oldtimers. I'm to old to change my tactics. Jim S.

Trout Daddy,

just 2 points...

1. you said "on this website". the reports you referenced to are not from the Piscatorial Pursuits site.

2. i saw no reference to "30 or 50 fish days" like you originally said in your post.

im not disputing the idea that you are trying to get across, im with you on the baitfishing/C&R issue. but i am calling you on the fact that you made up these numbers. it doesnt help your argument and you lose a lot of credibility with the members on this board when you give numbers that cant be backed up.