I find the current situation in these two countries to be fascinating and a wee bit scary mainly because the unrest is economic based and not ideology based. I think what we are seeing is a well educated, and globally wired, youth who don't see much of a future outside of peddling fruit at a fruit stand or greeting customers at a Wal-Mart. In the past these kids would flee to Europe to work and raise their families but with the current economic outlook that path is rapidly falling apart not to mention hurting those host countries own youth. This is not a really unique situation to Tunisia and Egypt alone.

The old, rich farts running this world have already got theirs and are doing what they can to hold on to it (read wall street bailout). That's all fine and dandy if the next generation has hope for a better life for themselves but what happens when, with degree in hand, there are no jobs?

Any sociology or economic PhD’s out there? Am I totally miss reading this?

Or do you think this may spread to Europe and beyond possibly to America?

Any chance we start to see policy's that promote hiring our own citizens as opposed to those in other country’s? Or do world leaders dig in their bootheels and hope the average person is happy with a few crumbs (albeit with piece and security)?

Or am I totally missing the boat here and kids today are happy as long as we keep them into video games and I phone apps?

I have many questions as I’m sure our politicians do too as I think this sort of snuck up from behind to bite them in the butt.

Always fascinating when history plays out in front of your eyes especially when no one really saw it coming!

I see the local news interviewing Egyptians here working for Microsoft presumably on one of those H1B visas. Seems that we let a lot of foreigners into our country taking jobs away from our citizens which irks me. Let the oil rich countries take care of them.

We also pour money into the middle east like giving Israel 3 billion a year. Why should we add to our debt? Tea partiers and even some Dems are upset over it. But we have so many Jews here that want to support them financially, with tax dollars, that it's tough politically.

I just don't see how the US can sustain pouring money into other countries and let them in here to take our jobs.

Government cut backs to get sound financial structure had same thing going on in Greece, and some in Spain & Portugal. It was taking away that started it their dance and that will continue in Europe and eventually the US until both get their financial house in order.

In Tunisia and particularly Egypt they have been educating the hell out of the population and Egypt had 7% growth rate. The problem is 60% ( could be off on % ) is under 30 and Mubarak has been in power for 30 years. Add corruption and authoritarian government, it was and explosion waiting to happen. The fact that the growth in the economy has been powered by a very low wage structure brought the middle class, students, public servants, Muslims, and Coptic Christians, into this thing.

Not to hi jack your thread but this thing will continue all over the world. I think freedom will grow in this world, may take a hundred years, but grow. Why? Government and its institutions ( of all kinds ) can not control the flow of information. Things like Twitter, Facebook, Cell phones, the Internet as a whole, are the tip of the iceberg and in the long term authoritarian both religious and sectarian are going to be in trouble. Kids in Africa living in huts get a very inexpensive lap tops ( courtesy of the USA I believe ) for education that connects to the web. You think 30 years down the road they will think a hut will do? I think we are witnessing the first steps where the true free flow of information will bring down dictators and authoritarian governments, even religious, one at a time but it will just take time.

FYI-Egypt's #2 on that list just behind Israel. Sort of puts America in the middle of this when we shouldn't be.

Hijack away.....Exactly the sort of discussion I was hoping for

I hope it will spread into Iran. There are tons of educated young people in Iran who are being suppressed by old religious farts.

The only thing that pisses me off is the looting going on in Egypt. They also broke into the Cairo museum and vandalized artifacts.

Isn't it funny how the young, educated, futures of countries think they have all the answers and power, but when given the chance to exercise it and bring about change they turn out to be clueless thieves and anarchists? If the unrest spread to a real oil producing country like Saudi Arabia, it could be a great thing globally, but I see it bringing a restriction to the few freedoms they have now, and an even more oppressive government. Disinformation on the Internet in the hands of these rebels without a clue could end up being the real culprit.

You mean like in 1776?

Lots of talking points (for me, anyway) in BroodBuster's post, but I'll try to limit it to a couple that are of particular interest to me.



I suspect and hope you are right. A general awakening of the younger generations is exactly what this world needs to turn the Global Economy into something that benefits more than just the wealthiest individuals. If that is what is happening, then these are indeed exciting times.



This is an important question, and it speaks to my biggest concern around the education strategy outlined by the President in his State of the Union address. On the surface, an effort to get a higher percentage of our youth college-educated sounds great, even if one does question where the money will come from. If it comes to fruition, however, we will have a glut of white collar candidates in the job market, and there won't be enough jobs to support them. Furthermore, increasing the number of people holding degrees will devalue those degrees significantly, so salaries for the jobs requiring those degrees will decline, further tilting the distribution of wealth in the favor of the very wealthy. Without manufacturing jobs and the like (which the current administration seems to be writing off altogether), the foundation of our middle class will be gone, and we will be left with two classes: rich and well-educated poor.



I'm not sure how it can be accomplished, but I think bringing our jobs back home is critical. Kids will cease to be content with toys alone when they reach working age and are unable to find jobs to support themselves and their gaming/technology habits. That may be the time when our youth follows the example the Egyptians are setting today. The way things are headed, I think we may find out soon.



Indeed.

Comparing what is happening in Egypt, Greece etc with 1776 is retarded.

BB,

I think the economic effects are already spreading to America. The manufacturing jobs that built America's middle class are mostly gone, and won't be coming back. Although college education levels increased post WWII, the vast majority of those jobs were held by high school graduates. With even more college-educated young people, it does appear that we might be heading toward a highly educated service sector class of Americans - college degrees and making lattes at Starbucks, etc.

More and more I've talked with other Baby Boomer generation people who think that their kids may never own their own homes unless their parents can help them swing it. That's been the case with peers of my 31-34 year old kids. A young couple in New York City generally cannot afford a $700,000 apartment, even if they work on Wall Street. Similar situations in D.C. and San Francisco area with "starter" homes going for $400,000 to $600,000. I don't have that much into my own new home, so it isn't likely I'll be making a down payment on one of those for my kids.

I don't know what the future holds, but I think the days of the American Empire are rapidly fading.

Sg

"Israel shocked by Obama's "betrayal" of Mubarak"

Reuters article

Whaaaaa

The Obama idmin needs to get Mubarak on a plane and out of Egypt very soon. Egypt being a mostly muslim country is one of the few that is anti Saudia Arabia and anti radical Islam. The radicals are just waiting for the US to keep Mubarak propped up as a puppet for Isreal. We need to get rid of him on our terms so we can have a peaceful transition to a coalition Gov as a bridge to a two party election. If he gets hung in the streets on the protesters terms we lose all credibility not only with the muslim world but in my opinion also here at home. And guess who would step into the power void?

Are we for democracy only when it's conveniant for our allies?

A big quadruple "duh" for that one...and if you somehow didn't believe it before, all you had to do was see our reaction to the protests in Egypt last week, back when we thought it might still blow over...the only time we're acknowledging the peaceful transition of power that should take place is after it's pretty clear that some sort of transition of power is imminent.

We really only support two kinds of Democracy in the Middle East...the kind where we call it Democracy, but it's really just an excuse for us to bomb the hell out of some country, and the kind that Turkey has, so long as Turkey continues to allow us to use their country and troops in our Gun Barrel Democracy.

Other than that, it's the old maxim..."Yeah, he's a sunuvabitch, but he's *our* sunuvabitch!"...

Fish on...

Todd

Better solution Todd? Someplaces need people like Mubarak, just like I would argue that Iraq probably needed Sadaam. Would you ignore Hitler because he was elected? Sad, but I am all for doing whatever it takes to provide security when needed.

Hopefully technology and expectations will allow true democracy to take place. World wide it seems to be happening. Could be exciting times. Just saw an article yesterday talking about the growth in China providing relief to us. I didn't have time to read the entire article but it seems they were arguing that as China's cost of living increases their goods and money will become more on par with us, making us more equal trading partners. Hopefully that will happen world wide within our life time.

I wish we could get completly out of the region, not going to happen but would be nice. I think so far Obummer is handling right,this is a Quagmire for sure.

BB,

The U.S. has always been for democracy in foreign nations only when it benefits us. If the country was leaning a little bit Marxist, we didn't hesitate to prop up our Dictator of choice, human rights be damned. It's embarassingly shameful that the U.S. supported killing thousands of brown people to benefit the likes of United Fruit Co. and U.S. Sugar. Supporting dictators who helped U.S. companies profit from sugar and bananas? Let Freedom Ring! - - - oh, so long as bananas don't cost more than $0.59/lb. There's a lotta' dirt on us.

Sg

Jordan looks like the next upset in the middle east.

Wasn't even talking about a solution, just noting that the great bastion of freedom and Democracy (that's us), doesn't actually give a $hit about Democracy, it's just a catch phrase we use to justify whatever we want to justify.

Ignore Hitler? So long as he stayed in his own country. Once he started fuckin around with his neighbors, now we have a different story. (Note that we didn't get involved in stopping Hitler until he started to affect our business...we didn't give one rip about what he was doing to Jews, Catholics, or pretty much anyone else).

We're either for Democracy, or we're not...there aren't any gray areas.

The fact of the matter is that we are not for Democracy...hell, we're barely for it here, much less somewhere else. We're for whatever makes us happier at the moment.

We'll take a brutal dictator who plays ball with us over ten democratically elected leaders who are loved by their people, but don't suck up to us.

Freedom, Democracy...blah, blah, blah...it's all about the money. Always has been, always will be.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just damned hypocritical, and if you don't think the people of Egypt know it as well or better than your average American, then you're fooling yourself...it would be refreshing for us to admit, just once, that our international relations have nothing whatsoever to do with human rights, Democracy, or even decency.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd,
You are right that we ignored Hilter until it was too late. Sometimes we can not just ignore others. As for our history of proping up bad regimes, I would agree we have a horrible record. That said, I still think there are times when democracy is not the best avenue. We were a democracy all through out the history of the United States, but that did not keep us from harming thousands. It appears that the majority had no problem with what happened in Rawanda, probably the same in Sudan. Whether or not we like it or not, in order to hold the principles that KK so boldly stated, we need something other than a democracy.


KK, do really think we have a democracy, because we don't?

Some places may need something other than a fully Democratically elected government, for a short time, or even for a long time, to get a country on track...but my point really has nothing to do with that, it has to do with the fact that we talk Democracy and Freedom out of the left side of our mouth, while supporting brutal dictators on the other, or turning our heads to genocides, because it's not politically expedient, out of the right side of our mouth.

That's the part I don't like...as I said above, we should at least be honest about what we are doing...supporting whomever, or whatever, makes the most economic or political sense at the time, and Democracy and Freedom rarely, if ever enter the equation at all.

Fish on...

Todd