I know this: If you spout off about how the "rich" don't pay their fair share, and then you tell everyone that you only make $18,500 a year, you can expect to get both barrels from the people who pay the freight. I would also be interested to hear just how McMahon is blessing me, as he has not disclosed his occupation other than it involves some time out in the snow. He could be a scarecrow for all I know.

Depends how good of a scarecrow he is.

This is a pointless debate like most so I will tell a little story and bow out.I tend to thank people that work any job for $18 k a year. Call me a fool but sometimes I even buy them a latte or lunch for no reason. If I get into Mr Peabodys way back time machine I remember hauling washed rock in 5 gallon buckets installing drain tiles in Dec for $2.75 an hour. I remember thinking I was real smart and asked the owner of the company why he did not just buy a backhoe and he said "why when you guys are cheaper". I may have even had an opinion like Mcmahons back then, hard not to be cranky after 40 hours of back breaking labor. Hard not to feel slighted when you work that hard and drive by people in $250k cars wearing $50k watches. The less education you have the more likley you are to feel that way. So call me a sentimental fool but I have some empathy for these people. I never have taken part in any of the programs directly but I have indirectly. My dad was drafted into Vietnam and left my mom with three kids to support. She had an 8th grade education, in the 60’s made it tough to find a job let alone a job that paid well. We ended up living in a housing project a using food stamps until my dad returned from Vietnam , about 2 years. She is a hard working lady and has been employed by the same company since 1967. She was just in a place and time where she needed a hand up. Through our church we help support several people like this that through circumstance out of their control need a little help above what government programs can provide. I see how they live and as tempting as it is to bitch about our system, govt. waste and taxes I see real people and real benefit. Is it perfect no but is anything in life perfect? If you want to bitch about your taxes I have a few people I can have you spend sometime with and once you do you will not bitch about your taxes any longer, if you do you are not human. It’s simple for me I keep my life simple, money power and material things do not mean much to me I don’t need to measure myself against others possessions or lifestyle. I understand it is not easy for others to accept that they do not get to directly keep 100% of what they earn and distribute it how they choose or to keep it or that they are carrying other people on their back because of that system. But the bottom line is we are all in this thing together and we all benefit from it from top to bottom.

Whether illegals are a blessing or a curse seems to depend a lot on the complaint of the day. When we start talking taxes, illegals become a collective pariah, because they don't pay any. When we start talking about rising food prices (particularly on produce), illegals are the only friends we have. Their willingness to work (hard) for wages far below what most white bread Americans would consider acceptable is largely responsible for the fact that produce has been as affordable as it has for so long.

Frankly, I can't decide how I should feel about that issue. Lots of issues are like that, seems to me. Take this generational argument that somehow sprang up in this thread, for instance, for which I will start a new thread later....

Great post, Tom.

That is a nice story Tom, obviously very heart felt.

That being said, in the few years I have been reading PP, I don't recall 1 post where someone has advocated not helping someone up when needed and I doubt those people exist here.

But what pisses me off is the hypocrisy of a post like McMahon's. When asked about a flat tax, his first reaction is "don't take any of my money, everyone else can do it, not me", followed by a STFU That shows a very selfish attitude IMO and I hope I am wrong, this is the internet after all.

And finally, if he had actually read the damn tax proposal he would see that the Fair Tax raises taxes on the wealthy, something he has advocated all along.

McMahon is a phuchin' idiot and Tom Joad is one MAGNANIMOUS sunofabich for feeling like buying a Latte for a dude makin' 18K....keep up the good work you phuggin' tools.

Some of you think that you're somehow support me because I don't make schit for money.

Pray tell me exactly WHAT you're paying for? I don't get food stamps, I don't collect unemployment and I don't receive handouts from anyone.

All of the oldsters are so riled up! This is a classic PP moment. It's funny how outraged many of you are.

FYI, in 2009 I paid almost $400 in taxes.

TFF....

Yeah big boy......once your mom and dads stop taking you as a deduction on THEIR tax return you'll have graduated into the realm of wearing pull-ups.

... And you're one of the cocksuckers whose had a handout his entire life. You really despise people in lower income brackets, don't you?

Get a fukin' life. Someday when I'm your age I'll be paying my fair share of taxes too -- and you know what? I won't care. In fact in about 2.5 years I'll be paying an unproportionate amount in taxes. I won't come onto PP and whine that I have to pay taxes and tell everyone I'm being cheated. I'm not going to snivel and act like people are receiving handouts when you know they're not.

Good...now finish your homework you phuckin' snot nosed bitch.

44 and I'm and oldster now. NICE! I have arrived.

No student loans, or pell grants, or assitance of any kind here in college, or any other time in my life.

Also, McMahon, I forgot about my most recent two side jobs. Working a 50 hr/week regular schedule, since last August I have rehabbed a 24 room foreclosed motel that was closed due to health department issues, and a foreclosed home. In 2 months I put in over 200 additional hours on the motel, and on the home I finished the work in 2 weeks and about 50 hours of work.

Not because I had to, but because I enjoy the labor. I'll work any young kid into the ground. You have absolutely no idea.

Another heart wrenching story, Hank! I almost cried a tear.

Jesus, I'm SO sorry you have to pay taxes. Really, I am! If I could help you out, I would.

It's funny that your father served in Viet Nam. Mine did too, but our age difference is probably 40 years. You're damn near on your death bed.

You'll never hear me crack on someone for working as long as it's legal. You come across as smart mouthed little whiny bish with a sprained vagina.

Sandy vagina, for the win!

Well [censored], that's 10 minutes of my life and two tear drops I'll never get back .. . . ..

Me, sandy? I'm not the one who blew my top and about had a stroke. I'm not the one who got outraged that someone dare make my income.

My philosophy remains: If you pay 35K+ in taxes a year, you obviously live a comfortable life and need to be paying taxes. People in my tax bracket DON'T receive handouts like many suggested. Only people who've led a privileged life and were supported by someone would think this. Also, wealthy people are the likeliest group to receive handouts. This has been shown from Bush tax cuts, the Bush stimulus package, to bank bailouts (not to mention the billions in subsidies).

Another thing true about a flat tax is that it puts a burden on the middle class than any other group.