I like the public school system CONCEPT because I think that contributed heavily to a large American middle class. The system has problems, protecting lousy teachers might be among them. The most serious problem in public education is PARENTS who send their children to school unprepared to learn, without enough sleep, without a decent breakfast, without appropriate clothing, without a "learning attitude, without enough love and caring at home. There should be alternatives to the standard public school, including charter schools.

I'm a product of public education and accidentally managed to get an OK education. My kids are products of public education, and because their parents took some effort to be involved, they got darn good educations. They took all the advanced placement and honors classes that were available to them. My oldest daughter's biggest bout with trouble came in 10th grade when the teacher (also the basketball coach of our state championship team) of WA state history admonished her for reading a book from another class. My daughter's untactful reply was that she could teach this class without studying because the bar was set low enough for the football players to pass it. Her candor wasn't appreciated, but neither did the teacher completely disagree with her. The mainstream classes aren't always the best use of an honor student's time, but it helps them better understand why they take honors and AP classes. Both girls attended highly selective colleges and universities and are now more abnormal than their father, thanks in part to public education.

Sg

Almost any study of charter schools or something like the Kipp program have an inherent problem in attempting to track them. Because it takes an effort to get into them, it can be assumed that there is a parent in the background who cares. An educator from tacoma changed my mind on this years ago. Someone challenged him on why private schools performed so much higher on less money. He pointed out that there weren't a lot of crackheads paying for and driving their kids to these schools each day. Then he pointed out that at that time, one out of three kids in the Tacoma School district was involved in some sort of special program. Downs syndrom, autism, blind, wheelchairs, deaf, violent behavior, etc... they all have a right to education and most of this will be done by the public school system. The cost of this puts public schools at a great disadvantage.

Good read SG. thank you.

Jgrizzle,

You have watched a documentary, does that now make you an expert on the topic of education? I watched Sicko awhile back, does that make me an expert on the health care system? Based on some of your comments it seems to me you have an axe to grind. When is the last time you been in a public school (aside from picking up a kid or going to sporting events?).

Did your documentary show any successful public schools? Did it show underpaid teachers working 100's of ours overtime without pay? Or show how some teachers spend their own money to buy supplies that the district cannot afford?

What many people do not understand is private and charter schools can be selective in who they admit in their schools. By law public schools have to provide an education for everyone; mentally handicapped (Jtard), emotionally disturbed, non-english speaking, homeless, out of control brats, etc. These same schools are held accountable by the No Child Left Behind Act. If they do not meet basic requirements set by the state they will be placed on probation. after three years of no gains they can lose their funding. Charter and private schools do not have to play by the same rules...

Having said that, is there room for major improvement? without a doubt. Are there bad teachers? You bet. Although, many of the worst teachers are retiring or close to it. What teachers are required to do in order to get certified now is much harder than it used to be.

So before you decide to slam public education as a whole you might want to spend a little time in an actual school. watching a biased movie and then acting like you are an expert only makes you look like an ass clown.

Now I'm done.

Race to Nowhere is a better doc. You can hear it in the comments here and also in the doc Waiting for Superman their is an entitlement culture in this country we believe that we are owed many things just because we were born and live here. All the tools are available to get a great education in this country one just needs to reach out and grab them and not wait for them to be handed to them. I agree with the comment about bad parents but it is not limited to the trailer trash it includes parents that work 60 hours a week to amass status and possessions.

When I complained to a public HS counselor that our son's opportunityy to get into a university was being compromised by the way course were structured i was told "well, not all our students go to college".

Parents certainly need to be involved but the system meeds to have, as its goal, the maximization of performance by all students. Each student entering the school system should be moving toward a goal that will support them once they graduate.

I know it doesn't make me an expert in education, but it does talk about alot of the stuff we are discussing. I wasn't trying to "be right" as much as I was trying to trigger a debate. There are alot of important things that need to be taken into account, and I think your guys' feedback has helped myself bring light to those issues, and impact my own understanding. I think what bothers me the most is that when our nation's education is compared to global standards, we are too far down the list. I think good public education is more of a nescessity then a privlage. The world is changing, and if we want to stand a chance in competing on a global scale, I think it's going to have to start with the children. All these kids are going to run this nation some day. I don't think that if something is working, it should be overlooked and considered unrealistic. If the problem was easy to fix and didn't ruffle anyones feathers, it would be easier to change things. I do know teachers, and I think it is a travesty that the good ones don't get rewarded for doing what they are there for.


I wish I was a kippster.

I should add that I'm a college student and some "teacher reform" is taking place at my school. Good teachers are being rewarded, and the good courses that they teach continue. The bummer for us students is that, as state funding for the schools is being cut down and good teachers are being payed more, us students are having to pay for it. I don't know all the details. They are also doing something with contract teachers. But I don't mind, because I'd rather pay more to learn, then pay less just for the label of a "college education." I understand that these changes can only be implimented on logical scale, or else the benifits of an education will be outweighed by the costs.

The smartest kids I knew growing up, were the ones who also continued to learn when they got home. I think I'm promoting the school reform so much because I feel kids should get the chance even if their parents aren't there. While the neighbor kids were in their room studying, I was out shooting stuff with my bb gun.