I was looking at this post and I couldnt see anything illegal with what the guy was doing... Maybe you guys could help

-----------------------------------------------Date:: 7-6-02
Thanks-to:: Dan

I fished the lake today and caught one rainbow keeper. Seen one man from another country, won't say which country, but anyone that has fished the lake this year will know. Anyway I counted eight fish on his stringer. Three perch, one rainbow keeper and four that were under four inches. This keeps up and there won't be any good ones next year. WHERE IS THE GAME WARDEN??? People have told me that they have called Washington Fish and Wild Life about taking of to many fish but nothing was done. WHY? "Oh well it was good lake to fish."
"PLEASE GIVE THE FISH A CHANCE TO GROW UP."

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I couldnt see anything wrong with the catch, maybe you could help??

I think this part is the illegal part. Minimum size for keeper trout is 8 inches.

It does not say which lake was fished, but I belive that there is no size limit on trout in lakes. It is eight inches in rivers or as listed in the regs.

Jim, you are right. There is no minimum size for lakes, reservoirs, and beaver ponds. Just rivers. That is kind of weird. Why would someone want to keep such a small fish?

I pondered the same question on Jameson lake and others many times Carl.
That September October late season is primarily on spring fry plants that run
anywhere from 41/2" to 7" with a lot at 5-5 1/2".
I guess the answer is "Because they can" and because they don't know any
better place/way to fish.
That fella in the story had a legal limit of trout,but I'd still call it a moral violation.

The bigger question for a lake like Jameson is why the F&G doesen't close it
completely and let that fry plant grow to any size.
Relates to the question of why F&G doesen't close some lakes alternate years
so you baiters can get a less expensive larger trout than stocking pen reared
triploids at great expense.
Makes tooo good a sense I guess.

Here's the violation. He had 5 trout and continued to fish. Didn't make any difference on the size of the trout as size doesn't matter in most lakes.

yeah but it didnt say he kept fishin... i guess if he did keep fishin it is but still.. seems like everyones usin the site to post accusations instead of fishing reports.

As for letting the trout grow... I think there should be a higher keeping size, like 10 inch at least... maybe 12

And there is a problem. I had a reader contact me about the jet ski debate that got mixed into the reports on Clear lake. For me it's a question of what do I edit and what do I leave in? I hate to start taking out parts of what people submit, but if this is becoming an issue with a lot of readers I will. Let me know if it's an issue.
Thanks.

Did you mean all people that fish with bait or are you just generalizing? I hope that your not insinuating that all bait fisherman have no judgement or moral obligation to the sport. Or is it that you feel that your way is the best and only way. Not only do I Fly fish I also use Spoon.s, Spinner's, and lake trolls. I have been fortunate that I don't have to bank fish, not all people are. Anyway I was hoping you weren't trying to slam other folk's method. Take Care.

I agree. There should be a size minimum on lakes. For me, I only keep fish that are at least 15 inches.

Carl,

There used to be a size limit on lakes, but it was removed a couple of years ago. I really don't see a need to go back to it (minimum size).

On westside lakes the minimim size would be governed by the smallest planter size made by the state.

If you are at a lake and catch five trout, you can continue to fish for warmwater fish. Your gear must be consistent with what you are fishing for if you are going to convince an officer that indeed you were not fishing for trout. If you happen to catch a trout and let it go, then no problem.

As far as minimum size, the minimum size of planted trout is generally going to be eight inches. BUT, in cases like some of our waters, fish that are less than eight inches will get planted out as excess fish from the hatcheries.

Cowtliz Hatchery dumps their excess fish into South Lewis County Park Pond and into Swofford Pond. These fish are generally 4-6 inches. Unfortunately they do show up in the catch sometimes and it makes anglers pretty unhappy. Which I understand.

But we either plant them or bury them and its better to plant them out even if it means they are feed for warmwater fish/birds. Some will grow up but most won't make it.

We have a few other lakes that we do this in as well (Lake Sacajawea in Longview).

Our fingerling lakes are closed during winter (Mineral Lake, Swift etc.) to protect the little guys and let them grow up.

I don't know if the above scenario goes for other lakes in the state or not, but it might give you an idea of why there are some little fish that do show up.



stace

Thank You! Stacie for your input. Once again, you have answered some questions I have always wondered about but never thought about asking.

Stacie forgot to consider the fry planted lakes that are left open untill end of
September or even October. By then those fry plants are big enuff to get a gob
of powerbait or a worm/egg in their throats. Thousands are "graded" on Jameson
each fall and I suspect on other lakes too. Most die. Many others end up in the fry
pan at 5-6"...yum,yum,yum. What a waste.
I can understand the removal of the old 6" limit that waz in effect for most lakes.
It does no good to put a limit on the fish size if you allow the lake to be baited
because the baited fish caught stands about a 90% chance of dying anyhow.
The theory is let them keep the 5" fish and you will get less total mortality on the
population. The theory only holds true if there aren't many thoughtless baiters
doing C&R baitfishing (grading) looking for the limit of older,bigger trout.
Hang out at Jameson for a week with your eyes open and you'll understand
what I'm saying.

Our only fry plant waters (down here in Region 5) are our high lakes. The others are fingerling waters which we plant out in July - August.

I asked about that too - fingerlings actually being planted when the lakes were still open - and the response I got was they don't get affected - but honestly, I am not sure how true that is.

Like Fish said, they are big enough to target bait and could easily get caught, in my opinion. It may be that not enough of the population would be affected to make a difference.

For instance, we plant approx. 100,000 fingerlings into Mineral in July and August. The lake closes at the end of September. So for at least two months they can be targeted. But there are still a lot of catchables in the lake. I don't know what percent would/could be affected by angling pressure. I am sure there have been studies done... but I don't know the answer myself.

I'll have to find out why we don't plant out in September. I am sure the answer will have to do with room availability at the hatchery and water issues at the hatchery.

I will let you know what I find out.

Again, the stuff I talk about relates only to the Region I work out of. They could be doing entirely different things in other areas of the state.



stace

arrgh i wish i could argue with you sooo bad Fishn... But I cant. It really is a few baitfishers who make us all look bad...

BBVD. I couldn't agree with you more on what you said about a small amount of people making messes at the lakes and rivers. If everyone carried out their junk. I don't think that we would have any thing to complain about. And then this would be just a fishing site.

But you and I know that this is just not going to happen. Wouldn't it be nice if it did.

Re: Stacies' last post. Isn't in regretable that all the lakes in Region 5 are so degraded
with predatory scrap fish that the most economical plants of all (fry/fingerling plants) can
only be done on high lakes.
You're right it makes no matter if you're only planting keeper sized trout for immediate
availability. And that probably covers most of W. Wash now that nearly all lakes are
trashed with perch, Bass, Crappie,bluegill,tench,Carp,and catfish. The suspension of the
Lake rehab program guarantees that all lakes in W. Wash will be unmanagable like those
in region 5 unless you fishermen go to the public hearings and support/rally for the
program. Our glorius leader of F&G would dearly love to be able to satisfy you with
scrap fish and a small planter dump every year.
OH, FOR THE GOOD OLE DAYS.

As for the situation in E. Wash there are still quite a few lakes that are managed as trout
only waters and planted with a spring fry/fingerling plant. Most or all of them are rich enough
that by September those fat little 5-7" spring fry can get a gob of bait in their throats and THEY
DO in massive numbers on the popular lakes like Jameson ,W. Medical, Blue,Park,etc.
On a few lakes like Wapito they sometimes put in a fall C&R only season to protect spring fry
plants but by and large they seem not to care about the mortality.

Oh, and BTW, the resumption of the lake rehab program on these E. Wash lakes(most of which are now showing degraded fishing due to scrap fish) is not a sure thing thanks to your Director. You anglers must show up at the public hearings soon to come or you can kiss off the good fishing in all the productive waters of E. Wash including the quality waters like Chopaka that the "midnight biologists" stock with smallmouth or other reproductive nightmares.

If you really want to get an eye-opener of which lakes used to be trout lakes vs which ones are still trout lakes, get a copy of Ernie Wolcott's books "Lakes of (Eastern/Western) Washington and check out the old planting data. There is two volumes; Eastern and Western WA.

I was researching some old plant data on certain eastern WA lakes and was surprised to see the state used to stock them and even put Brook Trout in some of the hotter seep lakes.

Thanks for the assist Zen.
I sometimes think when I get the blank stares that
these young whippersnappers really have no idea of what they've already
lost and disbelieve that they will loose the remainder unless they get politically
active and fight for it.
Look at Europe fellas.....Carp and Tench, unless you're
willing and able to fish private waters. Take it or leave it.

Speaking of the Potholes I've gained great insight as to why the fishery in so many
of those lakes is POOOOOOR. F&G can only plant Fry/fingerlings in all those lakes
under jurisdiction of the Feds at the Wildlife Area Offices by agreement with the
Feds. Or at least that's what I'm told.
The motive is likely pure and simple. The Wildlife Reserves customers are Duck hunters and Ducks.
They don't give a damn about the fisherman. They don't have to. The plants are designed to
feed their fish Ducks and mostly they do. The survivors are largely eaten
by scrap fish infestations or unable to compete with the scrap fish.
That part currently you can blame on Koenings.

Is there anyone over there with enuff power and savvy to bring some sense
back into the Fish part of Fish and Game management in Washington?
Or is it too late already and time to migrate to Canada?