I have no idea how this will turn out, but I suppose I'll just get bowled over by the gov'ment machine.

I'll be sending this off tomorrow to DFW.....

Dear Sir/Madam,

The department has erred in their requirement to purchase the $30 Discover Pass by those who already received a vehicle pass with the purchase of licenses.
The vehicle pass has a $12 value (per DFW). That $12 value is not accounted for with the purchase of a Discover Pass. Since the Discover Pass is good for everything that is already covered by the vehicle pass (plus more), DFW is charging twice for the same benefit. In order to correct this, a $12 credit should be issued to those who have already purchased the vehicle pass, making the purchase of a Discover Pass $18, not $30. I am enclosing an $18 check for my Discover Card.

Please send it to



I hate the idea of paying a fine, but I want to hear what a judge has to say about this rip off.

This new tax will make things interesting down the road, err I mean fee.


Fishy

Death of a thousand cuts.

RESPONSE
Dennis,

Thank you for contacting the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife.

The Vehicle Use Permit is a complimentary permit with purchase of your license and allows you to ONLY utilize WDFW land. Therefore, you have not yet made an investment.

Purchasing the Vehicle Use Permit allows you the opportunity to utilize WDFW lands. It is your choice whether or not you actually use it. Choosing to utilize WDFW land prior to July 1, 2011 requires the Vehicle Use Permit, since the Discover Pass is not yet available. So, as you should be able to deduce, we have not erred or charged you twice.

Furthermore, the revenue generated will be split among the three agencies as follows:

· 84 percent to State Parks
· 8 percent Fish and Wildlife
· 8 percent Department of Natural Resources

Revenue from the Discover Pass is needed to make up the loss of general fund money that had historically been available for recreation on state lands. The proposed state budget for the next two years (2011-2013 biennium’s) has almost no general fund dollars for recreation on state lands.

For State Parks, the loss of general fund money means the agency needs to replace approximately $61 million to operate the park system. DNR and WDFW each need to replace $5.5 million in general fund losses to keep recreation lands and water access sites open.

These lands include state parks, water access points, heritage sites, wildlife and natural areas, trails and trailheads.

For more information please go to the Discover Pass Frequently Asked Questions at: http://discoverpass.wa.gov/faq/ OR to the Discover Pass Home Page a: http://discoverpass.wa.gov/ Information is being updated weekly.

Feel free to send to: Licensing@dfw.wa.gov any suggestions for improvements or requests for additional information. Our customer feedback and questions are being evaluated daily. The information provided by our customers is a very important to us, and is used to improve our services and website. For questions or comment regarding the Discover Pass you may also contact us directly by phone at: Call toll-free (866) 320-9933.


Sincerely,
Tracy Rainwater
Customer Service Specialist

REPLY

Tracy Rainwater,

I sent off the email as a "heads-up" so those folks who can make a change, are able to do so prior to July 1st. You will note that there was no check or money order enclosed with my e-mail.

Your contention that the Vehicle Use Permit is complimentary is not correct. If I approach a dealer and ask for a Vehicle Use Permit, it will cost me $12 (plus service fee). So the Permit has a $12 value, and is, by the way, only good for two months if I purchased it on May 1st. In my mind, the Department has to address this value in some manner or another. I will be sending in my check for $18 and fully expect to be mailed a Discover Card. If that doesn't happen and I receive a citation for accessing a "Discovery Pass Required" area, then a judge will decide whether or not the Department can legally collect this duplicate charge.

And while I am sympathetic to the cash flow dilemma faced by my State, and to the many Departments whose financing is dependant on State funding, it is not OK to collect the needed monies inequitably..........which is exactly what is presently planned.

Please feel free to forward our correspondence to whomever you feel has the most power to rectify this problem.

Thank You,

Tracy...sounds like an arrogant asswipe.

I assume Tracy is a chick?

..or should I say...."non-consumptive user"....

We could start a fund so that all those people that wanted to pay more for less could donate their share to the fund so that we that don't want to pay more for less can get our passes paid for out of that fund, I am sure there will be tons of people stepping up for this measure.


Call me pessimistic.


Fishy

"DNR and WDFW each need to replace $5.5 million in general fund losses to keep recreation lands and water access sites open."

Interesting. So if sales of the Discover Pass flops, are State Parks, DNR, and WDFW going to close public lands to public access?

Sg

I pay a voluntary tax several times each and every year...2 WDFW plates and the state park fee on 3 rigs. I could opt out...but I don't mind paying for my recreation.

At some point though, it becomes extortion.

..come to think of it....if I don't renew my WDFW plates at $30 each ($60) and quit with the state parks donation ($5x3) I stand to save $45 each year....guilt phuc.king free.

I refuse to pay the $5 State Park "donation" on any of my rigs until they actually make it an option to do it, rather than tack it on there and give me the "option" to not pay it. . . .I wonder how many pay it because they are not paying attention rather than wanting to pay it .. . .bunch of "slight of hand" bullchit .. . ..

$380 in annual license fees to hunt and fish in Washington is what we paid last year. I paid that for me and two minors. Now I need to pay another $30 to hunt on land that WE all own.

Head to the lake in the summer and all of the waterskiers andjetskiers don't have WDFW stickers in their windows. No enforcement or tickets.

Head to Forks, fish and park in a WDFW controlled parking lot. Have my WDFW sticker visible in the window, on the dash as required, been there for 9 months and the thermal ink has faded. Driftboat trailer attached to truck, WDFW officer checked my fishing license, still wants to write me a ticket because I don't have a sticker. Show him the sticker, he says he can't read it.

I say I displayed it per the WDFW website "Permits must be placed in full view from outside the vehicle. Please have the license plate number(s) of the vehicle written in the space provided on the permit." Show him the plate number of the truck, clearly visible on the slip, watermark of WDFW clearly visible, barely visible thermal ink can be seen after I take it out of the window.

Still says he "can't read it, ticket time". Eventually I was able to reason with the asshole, but seriously, any organization that harrasses its patron like this is full of sh!t.

BTW, the cost of a vehicle use permit is $14, not $12.

Whew! You are a kind guy. At this point I would have told the clown to go for it and I'd have chewed his ass up in court. The dept. doesn't need thugs.



I'll look into this. In another post I copied/pasted a screenshot of a price list off the DFW website. I could have sworn it said $12, but will look again.

Back on the 19th of May I posted this screenshot.....

Dogfish, you are right if the service fee is included. Just grabbed this.........

Back when Gary Locke was Gov, everyone pissed and moaned about having to pay TAXES to support our State Parks and boat ramps and Wildlife agencies and in a fit of populist conservativism, the state changed to a user fee system.

Now WA's same pikers that wanted the user fees implemented in the first place are bitching about having to chip in measly $20 a year to keep things running even though they are the ones using the services.

These things called parks and boat ramps and the cops that bust poachers and hillbillies using sticks of dynamite to 'fish' for salmon don't pay for themselves.

You cheapskates wanted user fees, you fuggin' got 'em. Now STFU and pay up.

-----
PS WA state parks are probably the worst, most poorly funded, in any state I've been in. They are, essentially, rotting remnants of New Deal era CCC projects that WA residents are too cheap to maintain, expand or build upon. We are still using a parks system intended for a WA population level of 1935.

User fees are fine, just get their sh!t together and make it ONE F"N FEE. .. .. not this nickle and dime BS that has all the overlap and double dipping crap. . .. .

I have said it before, I would pay $100+ just to have one pass to use all county/state/fed areas in WA. .. hell, make it $200, just make it simple and a one time thing. . .. . .

Exactly.

I totally agree. They way they try to be sneaky about it is really crappy.

Why the hell would I want a private company to make a profit off something I, as a citizen, partly own?

I'd rather my fees and taxes go into the pockets of local workers with full bennies who will in turn spend it locally than get bundled off as profit into some offshore account a la Walmart.

The state park system has enough money to make sure the rangers drive new rigs every few years.

Keep in mind that back then the state parks were able to also provide lifeguards during the summer at the most popular state beaches.

Actually they should begin with the energy industry.

Yeah but they're gay......

I'm usually last in the loop as to what the gays are doing.

Another week and I'll be in Alaska...which is kinda' like Matthew Shepherd country...only without the "Matthews".

I have NEVER thought that user fees were the answer to anything that has to do with PUBLIC USE. That is ridiculous in the extreme. I HAVE always believed that if something is for the public benefit, then the public (which is everyone) should pay for it. The only exception should be out of State users, who should pay by daily use. The problem arises when dipstick "Gods" take monies generated for a specific purpose and spend it elsewhere. And I think a lot of that can be traced right back to liberal law makers and judges, both of whom think that every tough case needs a law, and an entire entourage of support.

It comes back to "Just because something is a good idea, or just because you like it, doesn't mean you can afford it."

Politicians suck!

That's how Montana Parks were when I was there. Free for residents, but tourists payed a pretty hefty fee.

I should also add that they were some of the cleanest, up to date, well patrolled and operated parks I've visited.

And none of them were subcontracted to private companies with minimum wage flunkies in blue smocks to empty the trash.

No private company is going to maintain the buildings and infrastructure of a park they don't own. They just collect the payments and walk away laughing.

what i think is going to happen will be as soon as we buy enough passes the leg. will cut their budget more because of all the money they are collecting. same thing they did to school over federal stimulus money

I'll buy a "discover pass" just as soon as I buy my Makah tribal pass....

I have to get finger printed for the twic ID security card, that is good for five years, I think. $95.00 Then six months later, they wanted me back for the hazmat fingerprint (cause I could be a terrorist). $95.00 Im not paying twice. SO, I had to surrender that from my drivers license, which they charge me an extra 20 bucks cause I have a CLass A endorsement. On top of that, if I wanted a carry permit, it still goes to the FBI with the finger print. All that, and I still cant fish the headwaters on the green. (cause I could be a terrorist.) Motorcycle endorsements are rediculous as well.

+1 here also!


Fishy

KK's really falling for you, AM