Ditto.

FYI, too long way better than too short.

If that trailing hook is in the bait, you're gonna be mortally wounding most of your catch.

I prefer the hangback trailer. I really don't think it's possible to make it too long.

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/594057/1.html



You'll nail more short strikes, and virtually eliminate the risk of a mortal hooking wound since the overwhelming majority of the fish will be hooked from the outside in.

Also when they swing around to WHAK the bait with their tail sometimes they get that trailing hook. Been many a time I've hooked more then one fish on a bait as the first fish never touched it.

With all due respect, brood, I think the whole "whackin' the bait with their tail" is an old wife's tale.

Never hooked a troll-caught salmon in the tail with a hangback rig. Never seen it happen on the countless underwater vid's I've watched.


Someone post a vid that shows it, then maybe I can believe, too.

While trolling plug cut herring in the Willapa, Buoy 9 area, my partner almost had his rod ripped out of his hands by a fish, when we got the fish to net it was hooked in the wrist, or caudel area. I don't have video of the take, however the violence of the take down made me believe that the fish tail slapped the bait.
By the way, I don't have video of my birth but I'm pretty sure it happened.

I'm with Doc on this one. I have watched a lot of underwater videos and have never seen it. In addiiton the physics seem difficult to me. Try slapping any object underwater. It's hard to do. As the hand/tail comes toward an underwater object, water preassure pushes that object away.

I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to mooching, just about any herring, any hook, any spin, and any presentation works. Just get it in front of a king, and he'll bite it if it's feeding. It is funny tho to hear guys argue or pretend like they have some sort of secret knowledge about rigging herring, hooks, etc. At the end of the day the guys who do the best when fishing is tough (anybody can catch limits when fishing is good) are the guys who know when to stay or move, based on the sign.

" I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to mooching, just about any herring, any hook, any spin, and any presentation works."

In realestate, it's location, location, location!
In fishing, it's presentation, presentation, presentation! Except when it's not...

Presentation #1 We were fishing the Narrows and not sure the dozen herring we had bought would get us through the afternoon. Fishing partner and I had perfectly cut plugs for bait; my six year old son got a herring steak impaled on a single hook. We let our lines out out and were drifting with the current when we noticed a nice sized silver repeatedly leaping behind the boat. One of us had hooked the salmon, and it wasn't either of the fishermen with cut plugs. My son had hooked his first salmon on a herring steak!

Presentation #2 We had been mooching for blackmouth since daylight, we had nothing in the fishbox, we were tired. We decided to put the rods in the rod holders and drag some bait, while the wind pushed us across Commencement Bay. I rigged up a cut plug, checked the action, and let the line out. My fishing partner had just lost the bottom hook of his leader to a dogfish and decided to bury the remaining single hook in the back of a half frozen herring. A crippled herring can be an attractive bait to a salmon; a lifeless herring, not so much. I knew, as he let his line out, he was wasting his time. A third of the way across the bay, my rod went off. My partner reeled his line in, put the rod in the holder, but left his bait in the water. He then proceeded to net my fish, and as we brought an eight pound blackmouth into the boat, we noticed his rod was bouncing in the rod holder. Looking over the side, we were surprised to see a salmon, similar to the one we had in the net, slammin' his motionless, floating-on-its-side herring. A hasty hookset failed and the salmon darted back to the depths. Hard to overstate the importance of "presentation".

Presentation #3 I was trolling along Pt. Fosdick's shoreline and had run out of herring. There was room for one more silver in the fishbox, but the only bait left was a worn out plug cut that had been dropped on the bottom of the boat. It had been soaked in gas and oil, walked on, and baked in the sun. The original cut was mushy and splayed out, the rear hook had ripped through the side. I retreived the herring from the floor, cut a new bevel, stuck the hooks in the soft flesh, and swung the antithesis of a perfect bait over the side. Stripping and counting, I reached three before a strike nearly pulled the rod from my hands. I was planning on counting to ten before going into stealth mode, so the hookset was about seven seconds too late. Never got that last silver; and never again worried about a few missing scales, a bit of blood, or a less than perfect spin on a herring. Just keep your bait in the water...on a solid tie leader!

I've been lookin' at this bait here......I'm bitin'.....nah, I've seen this sh!t before



If you want to screw around with rolls and perfect spacing use a slider.
If you want to hook fish use a solid tie.

I've never caught one by the tail while trolling either. Fairly common though while mooching

But I think we've all seen video of salmon and birds tearing up a bait ball. I think this is the scenario where the trailor gets them by accident. They tear up a school knocking as many herring silly, with or without physically touching them, as they can and then swoop around and gobble up the stunned herring. I don't see this very often in PS but anywhere on the ocean when mooching for feeding Kings, especially in AK, this is a very common if not normal situation.

When I'm teaching someone to mooch if they get that "WHAK," reel in a few turns but don't feel the rod loading up it's drop, drop, drop that bait and hold on!!! Reeling to the surface to check your bait is the absalute worse thing one can do in this scenario.

Everybody who fishes Kings must have cleaned at least a couple of fish with herring heads in them. Should tell you something, no?

Hooking a salmon by the tail is not likely to happen except under limited circumstances: That is, the line/leader gets caught in the pelvic or anal fin. Salmon are known to swipe at bait fish with their tail. So once the line gets caught in the fins, it's a quick and easy slide for the hook to impale itself somewhere near the tail.

Salmon are known to swipe at bait fish with their tail.

Do you have any evidence of that?

That pretty much sums it up right there.

DD
Who was fishin' with Bantam over the weekend...stand up dude.

you can see it a few times in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP-7oVWq4sQ

I watched it several times. I did not see any attacks with tails. I did see salmon turning away rapidly. But never saw any contact between the lure and their tails. At 50 there may have been some incidental contact, certainly nothing I would call an attack. (I carefully watched the lure for any movment caused by a the tail "slap.") In slow motion I saw zero tail/lure contact.

Watched it... saw no sign of fish swiping at anything with their tails. Saw them swim up and turn sharply away... but never anything involving a tail directed towards the bait.

Tail slapping is a wives tale.

Fixed.

Yeah, in my dreams

you must have missed it to

just trying to teach you kids something.