I fish the Deschutes quite a bit. It's big, about 5000 +/- CFS average summer flow.
There are many sections that feature prime depth/speed all the way across. If you can cast long you have an advantage.
And yes, I've spooked them under foot many times in the early hours and I've seen fish hooked very close to the bank.
My MO is to clear the area close to me as I start into a run and then work up to long casts as I step down.

I don't know how far I'm casting exactly but it's over a 100' depending on the run.
Once in a while I'll see a spey guy really chuckin' it and I'll say to myself, "Damn, that guy's into my zone."

So in IMHO, long casts can work depending on the river and the layout of the run.

Sorry Stam, but the same devil was at work here, too. The only thing obvious is that Coley is vouching for you.
And Scandinavian here, not that it matters.

Coley, maybe you should post up some pics of Stam Spey casting, for verification and critique, ya' know.

I hear comments like yours about Spey caster/fishermen a lot, but I don't identify with it. Makes me think that I hang with an entirely different set of the fly fishing fraternity. I see Spey guys on some rivers who don't look like they know a lot about fishing. I assume they are new to the game, and often I see them fishing with guides.

I think you're being short-sighted to say that casting to fish regularly means casts no more than 40'. It depends on the river and where the fish hold in my experience. That's not to say that the fish aren't holding closer to one side than mid-river. I fished the Skagit and Sauk successfully for over 20 years regularly casting 60' - with a single hand fly rod - and not because fish held 60' out. Often I'd be fishing to steelhead holding 20 to 40' out, but with the idea being a low and slow swing, the 60' of line presented well. Weekend before last on the Klickitat a line of about 45 - 60' was about right for a swung presentation. The day before while bobber-dogging from the raft - that's totally different. A cast over 40' was out of control, so the shorter the better the control, up to and including dapping.

The only places I know where long casts as fishing casts are the norm and are effective are the Clearwater (ID) and the Thompson. That's because the channel morphology is such that the steelhead hold all across the stream cross section and can be taken anywhere you can make a suitable presentation.

Anyway, it's fun and entertaining to see Stam venturing over into the light side, the Stam who said nothing good can come of fly fishing. He he.

Sg

10-4 on the pics. I will dig a few up before too long. Still unpacking from the trip.

I don't argue that fish can and do hold throughout the river. I still think the majority are within easy reach of one bank or another. My main point is that success in the form of hooked fish comes as a result of time in the zone. Making long casts to faraway fish usually results in very little time spent in the zone and minimally effective presentation. Sure you can cast to them, but that is very different than fishing to them effectively. More time spent with your gear in front of the fish will result in more fish hooked, and concentrating on water where that is most easily accomplished is good strategy if the catching is higher on your priority list than casting. To effectively fish on the long casts you have to get low and slow quick, which often means sacrificing the more productive part of your swing.

I would be curious to know how many fall/winter fish are caught in the first 1/3 even 2/3 of the swing. In my limited experience and observations, the last 1/3 and hang-down result in 95% of takes.

PS - I am not vouching for Stam. He is still a dirty gear flinging bait monger, but he is a very good steelhead fisherman

For folks that know the fish, the tool holding the hook and line is of secondary importance when it comes to catching.

ive got a Sage, i am however not the greatest at casting it, and dont want to break it, so it just sits in its aluminum tube, might play with some searuns with it one day, to get the hang of it...

Coley,

We must be fishing way different water types then. I get half my strikes in the first 1/3 of the swing and most of the rest in the next 2/3, with maybe 2% on the hang down. Hang down strikes usually don't result in a solid hook up, and usually occur in unique layouts. I try to avoid a hang down strike by fishing in a way that keeps swinging past the holding lie if at all possible.

Agree that the fish are usually within reach of one bank or the other; easy depends on stream channel morph, cuz those high bank sides that are vertical are impossible to fish from, wading that is. Steep high bank is why I bought my first Spey rod.

The way to have your fly spend more time in the zone is to use more lead or tungsten, but then this conversation is about fly fishing. Less time in the zone is an inherent compromise to fishing a deep sunk fly with traditional fly fishing methods. It is exactly that which lead to split shot indicator nymphing methods. There is only so much efficiency that can be attained with floating line/sink tip/unweighted or lightly weighted flies. I look first for holding water and then assess whether I can cover it effectively. The downside of swung fly fishing is that in most rivers there is always a bunch of what we call "conservation water." That's moreso the case in winter fishing than summer.

Sg

Who you callin' a tool!?

Pun intended

Oh Stam, yer gonna' sink deeper and deeper into this end of the pool. Welcome aboard!

Talk about living the blessed life, you run into random guys on river who just happen to work for tackle companies and want to send you schwag. And you'll probably get laid by the UPS delivery gal . . .

Classic "gear guy goes fly" post, love it.

Glad you guys had a good time up north & made it home safe & sound.


c/22

Geez, ya' catch a fish on a Spey rod and now ya' go gettin' all uppity. Sorry for having any doubt. Sure hope that driver is a gal . . .

Thought you might be going ascot shopping Stam.

Having cast a fly and caught a fish hardly makes you a member of the enlightened camp. Attitude says a lot Stam, and you got a whole lotta' that. As for drift fishing with conventional gear, been there, done that. More than once even. And altho never an expert, yeah, when fish were around, it was as easy as you make it look.

I don't dislike gear fishing. I just can't stay interested in it, unless I'm hooking up every 15 or 20 minutes, and even back in those days, that was a very rare, if ever, occurrence. Fly fishing keeps me interested, even when I'm not catching fish, which is what the majority of a day's fishing consists of, regardless of gear type, and I'll throw gillnets into that mix. Done that too.

Salar makes a good point. When it comes to put downs regarding gear type and method of choice, you're leading the pack around here. Course, then there's Todd who's all about Spey Pride.

Lots of good info in these past few pages with the exception of Sg confessing that he was bobber dogging from the raft with a fly rod.

My fishing partners, old hands of the Skeena, have chided me that I cast too far (single hand) and that the fish hold closer to the bank. While I did learn from them that fish will hold in much softer water than what I fished down here, I still maintain that if you cover the close water first while swinging, you can still catch the close fish and give yourself a chance to catch fish out further. What I like about catching fish further from the bank is if they get in the faster water, they will often peel off all your fly line and a bunch of backing. You may not land those fish but seeing a fish jump and cartwheel 100 yards downstream from you is still pretty frickin' exciting.

Even though these guys know the water and are better at reading water than me, I out fish them, mostly because of my youth (I'm in the water fishing more) but I also think I catch more fish because of my ability to cover more water due to longer casts. By longer casts, I mean 75 feet instead of 50.

One advantage a single hand rod is (aside from being easier to carry in the boat) is about a quarter of my fish have been caught while stripping or casting upstream (dead drifting) and picking line the past few years. Those two approaches are more difficult to do with a two-hand rod. But there are advantages of a two-hand as well.

Gear, fly it is all good to me. Just wish I had more time to do either.

As far as the Sage One, I know someone who recently purchased an 8 wt. I'm hoping to cast it in the near future to form my own opinion on it.

Lets try and stay on topic here.

DaveD,

Terribly sorry about the bobber dogging, but part of my "compleat angler" quest includes doing some nymphing, for trout and steelhead. For all my years of fly fishing, it's a method I'd never tried. I think that's because under the old fly fishing regulations neither weighted flies nor split shot on leaders was permitted, so I never tried it on other waters either. It isn't likely to be my preferred style, but may help persuade Stam that I am open-minded about fishing.


Stam, who appears concerned that there's a segment of the fishing community that thinks of itself as elite. Yet he's humble enough to say:

"now I get to speak as the enlightened open minded one"

"my criteria for a good fly fisherman is one that feels the same way about the fly mentality as me...."

"and ruffled feathers are never not fun"

And that last one, speaking in double negatives, imitates your psychotic friend Larry. Hard to say where yer headed with that.

Sg

It cast nice. I tosed an 8wt a client had in AK. Landed a 27" bow on it. I could cast pretty close to a hole sharkskin with and indicator and beads so it made my goofy casting ass look good
Stam- funny chit!

Casting nearly a whole flyline with hardware attached to the leader testifies to a lot better than goofy ass casting.

Sg