Had a chance to fish the Sage ONE last night for the first time. WOW. This thing is a rocket. the 8 wt was 3.5 oz and a dream to cast. Cant wait to hit some steelhead and bigger cohos on it. If you have a chance, check it out. It is SWEET.

I would expect nothing less than a superb casting tool from a top-of-the-line Sage rod. With very few exceptions, I have been amazed at the casting performance of all their recent high-end offerings.

I'll be interested to hear how it handles those salmon and steelhead when you tangle with them. The one knock I have heard on the Z-Axis series (very little personal experience, as priorities usually dictate that can't make an $800 fly rod purchase) was that they didn't flex deeply enough when fighting big fish to hold them as well as most would like. I get that those were fast action rods, which would explain why they might be stiffer, but people who know have told me there are other fast action rods out there that flex better during the fight (although most seem to agree the Z-Axis was about tops for casting). If the ONE addresses that issue with any satisfaction, based on what you have to say about its casting capabilities, it would be a tough act to follow. With a name like "ONE", I suppose it had better be - the Sage marketing folks are going to have a tall order ahead of them when they have to come up for a name for their next top-end series.

Either way, since most of us do a lot more casting than fighting fish, and because you can't hook many fish if you can't make consistent casts, casting capability would seem to be a good area to place heavy emphasis. Sage has been as good as anybody for a while now in that regard (IMO). Congrats on what should prove to be a great purchase!

Are you going to make it to SolFly? I could probably arrange to bring one down for you to check it out.

Ahh hell. Just tell Mark to bring one.

hahaha of course. To be fair Redington is making some killer rods right now too, but when was it ever about settling for just one rod.

This rod is a lot faster and stiffer than the XP or the Z axis.

I have been using the 896-4 with the GPX taper and it launches the line effortlessly.

The One does not flex deeply like the Z. It took a while for me to get used to how much faster this rod is.. I have had the pleasure of hooking in to several kings and a few pinks with this and I had no trouble landing the kings.

The One is also a bit light er than my 2 piece XP coming in at 3 11/16oz for the 9'6" 8Wt 4pc.

Hmmm. This ONE thing sounds interesting indeed.

I have to admit, my Z-axis (11' 7wt) is among my most treasured possessions and the more I use it, the more I love it. Re: the flex issues, I was at first surprised how it loaded to the cork even with moderate sized fish, fish well below what I would expect the upper range of that rod to be capable of moving. At first I was apprehensive about putting a big bend in it, but it seems to be up to the task, even if it does look and feel overloaded when you are yarding in a big 'un.

I think my next fairy wand will be some sort of switch rod in the 9wt category, probably 12' or so? Is there a ONE that fits this bill? I am too lazy to look right now.

As for the evolution of rods and what to call the next best...the rod(s) will have no name, only a symbol.

Classic...watching the chase the name scene. ur all gonna get a bigger one with the Sage...rods being built from scratch now, throw as good as any loomy sagey thingy mebob but at less than $100 per rigged w rim control pluggys makes me laugh at the fancy flingers. Cheers

Sooooo have you cast one?

I am all about function over form my man. The less I can spend the better. In some cases, it does come down to "you get what you pay for," and I agree with you in that those instances are becoming increasingly more rare these days.

dont do the G7 waders, dont do the Hardy 46 perfects, dont do $1000 sageys...dont care, cause they really dont do [censored] that my gear doesnt. been around the fly scene for 30 years, its really gone to hell or maybe i have, not sure...cheers bro

I can pound a nail pretty good with a rock, but that doesn't mean there isn't a better tool for the job.

Comes down to a cost vs. benefit thing I guess.



The whole world is going to hell man.

You are probably right.
I have seen guys with cheaper gear land just as many if not more fish and they enjoyed doing it with the gear they have.

It's a sickness, and I probably should join a 12 step program.

I only have a few hobbies that I really enjoy so, I decided to spend the money on my fishing and Dive gear.

I have learned along time ago, you get what you pay for most of the time. I like Sage, been a fan for a long time and I like supporting a NW company. They have a great customer service and I have only had to use the warranty once but it just confirmed they are a top notch company.

D3 & Stam,
Please ask your buddies at Redington to introduce a rod with the same action of the now discontinued CPS.
The newer CPX just doesn't compare to the good old CPS models.....
Thanks,
SF

I think I'm still too much of a novice to benefit from a really high end rod. Just like a 18 year old bimbo, it sounds like a good idea but I probably wouldn't know what to do with it...or I would break it in the process...

I'm pretty sure Joe hacked into Keith's account.

I'm too much of a flailer to appreciate most of this stuff but I will say that Coley's Z-axis is one of the nicer rods I've cast. I can see both sides. Performance is often worth paying for and, like ANY manufactured good, getting improvements past a certain point tends to take time, skill, experience, and money to accomplish. All that leads to the end retail cost. At the same time, where is the end of this? For anyone that has been around for a while, there was once a day where a $300 fly rod seemed absolutelyfookingcrazy for almost everyone.

-AP

+1,000,000. And, if it's not too much trouble, please ask them to tell their next door neighbors (Sage) to bring back the SP series as well. If necessary, they can wrap the blanks with different colors and call it the "TWO." Now there is a rod I might scratch together funds to buy.

Despite the general insanity of today's fly rod market, I would echo the sentiments of those who stomach the annoying marketing drivel and high prices that come with Sage rods for the sake of owning outstanding fly rods that are built by an AMERICAN company with a high standard of customer service. Same goes for Redington, but more on the basis of their outstanding service, as I understand most or all of their blanks are being manufactured in China these days. Sage/Redington are the same company anyway, aren't they? Last time I sent a rod in for repair, the invoice was from a company of an entirely different name, which I suspect would be the parent corporation? If so, now that they are a conglomerate, does that mean I have to start villainizing them?

I have yet to cast a "One." Last night a friend gave me his review and deemed it a very good rod. At $800 I won't be buying a One, for a couple simple reasons. For me to spend $800 on a plastic fly rod I want it to perform four times better than a $200 rod, although I might sucker for it if it were only twice as good a performer. The other reason I don't buy $800 plastic rods is that I'd rather up the ante and for $1100 or $1200 buy an heirloom bamboo fly rod that will retain its value and likely appreciate in value over time, whereas all plastic rods, including the "One" begin depreciating in worth even before your Visa bill arrives in the mail, even before you pay for the damn thing. Used plastic rods generally sell for 50% of their original cost, which might not be so bad if its performance was truly two or four times better than the lower cost counter part. But it isn't. Any good caster knows that.

However, I'm really glad that companies like Sage and others that produce high end products keep moving the cutting edge of product technology. That is the energy that causes the lower end rods in the marketplace to constantly become better and better. All but the very worst graphite fly rods available today, and there aren't very many of those, are vastly superior to the very best fly rods that were available at any price 40 years ago. Trickle down technology really does work, unlike trickle down economics, but that's a lesson for another day.

Sg

Why? You need another goat whip, or something?

Or, does the One come tied up in a gear rod configuration?

If you want to be a fairy wand flinger, start with an ascot and a bottle of 18 year old McCallan scotch. Seems to work for most. You don't actually need to fish at all, but you'll look good with that classy ascot and that fine scotch in your hand around the campfire, as you scoff and scowl at the gear guys as well as anyone who doesn't skate dry flies across the water for your 1 steelhead for the year.

Besides, don't you have that fancy/pancy Loomis Spey Rod/reel that you stole off a small crippled, wheel-chair bound kid up North last year.

To each his own,
Never ever bought any fishing equipment hoping it would go up in value. I buy equipment because I want to use it and have fun with it. Cars, boats and gear all drop in value the minute it leaves the store / lot.

I have an Orvis bamboo rod that was a gift, everyone told me not to use it because it will go up in value….. Not, took it out the first week and got it all scuffed up. Now it sits in the closet because I don’t enjoy fishing with it, at the same time I don’t want to sell it because it was a gift.

Divers,

I agree with the "to each his own" philosophy. I don't buy bamboo rods to hang them on the wall and wait for their value to appreciate. I buy them because I appreciate casting and fishing them. That they appreciate rather than depreciate is a happy coincidence. Don't blame you on the Orvis; mine sits unused in the closet as well. Orvis bamboo really ain't that good IMO. Back on topic, I was expressing that I don't see the value in high end single hand graphite fly rods because the incremental increase in cost is way disproportionately high relative to the incremental increase in performance. It's just a personal frugality thing. In the case of two-handed rods, the good performers were all high end, and so I sprung for the ones I wanted. In the last few years, however, good performance is trickling down the price points with these rods as well, but has a ways to go, again IMO.

Parker,

Don't worry. Ascot or no, no matter how much you dress yourself up we'll still recognize you for the bait thug you are. However if you wander by the campfire with a bottle of 18 yr McCallam, I'll happily share a wee dram with you should you offer. As for the scoffing and scowling, around here what I see are a couple of bait and gearheads like you and Stam never passing up an opportunity to denigrate fly fishing. Ironic, eh, coming from the guy who can't fish without the services of a guide. Et tu, Brute.

Sg

i got to play around with a few sage rods latley...and ill have to admit...you get what you pay for...with my other cheaper fly rods i felt like im not doing anything right...for a newbie to fly fishing...casting really...the sage rods my hubby brings home almost makes me want to give up my bait...but i dont think that will happen

but i really think you get what you pay for...i can really tell the difference....and they are sooooooooo light

I think this is the same switch Scott Howell is using on this summer run. He gets a good bend going out of a 6-7 lb. fish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjRBLdPyqBw


Jump up to 7:10 & take a look.

I always thought of the Z in the fast action class, the new SageONE redefines fast action ?

c/22

I'm pretty sure that Paker just got owned.

...and by an ascot wearing, scotch drinking, fairy wand flinger, too! I can handle getting owned by a fellow bait thug (IE, Stam), but damn.....Slamo sure pulled off his Orvis leather driving gloves for thise one!



Looks like if I'm gonna go out and fish by myself, I'm gonna need to get a guides license!

I wouldn't be surprised if something like that actually exists. I'd love to see someone decked out in as much Orvis driving gear as one of those Corvette-owners with the hat, jacket, gloves, and whatever else the mid-life crisis store would sell 'em.

I thought Orvis only sells leather casting gloves, not driving, not to be confused with some other vendor's golf driving gloves.

Thanks for being a soft target Parker. See ya' in the Harbor if you're coming down.

Stam,

It isn't the snob or the scotch or the ascot. It's that catching steelhead in BC on gear is as easy as falling off a rock, that's all. Bait? Even easier, and fortunately prohibited. After 1 or 2, or 25, or 100, where's the fun or challenge in that? As a bow hunter or former bow hunter, I gotta' believe you get it.

Sg

I have many ONE's. Some have the letters LL, XP, RPL, SP, IMX, GLX, GL3, just above the handle. Do I need to cast another foot? Rarely. Do I lose fish because they don't bend into the butt enough.....;) That's something I'll never know the answer to..

Some day I may own the ONE but only after someONE else has figured out they're going to put it in the classifieds in search of the NEXT ONE.

I thought Neo was The One

I'm pretty sure all the uptight bug flingers just got owned by stam.

The ONE? When it comes to rods, I'm a polygamist...


just not as poly as some here'bouts.....

Mmmm, scotch......



Just ribbin ya'll. Except Stam. FC!

If we really want to get this conversation going, let's talk about flyfishing (swinging flies, wet or dry), and float fishing (nymphing)...and, of course, flossing (bead fishing)... while all the Ascots are blowing their respective horns and gaskets, I'll run down the bank and toss a spoon for a while

Fish on...

Todd

(Soon to be in BC, with gear rods, centerpins, single handers, and spey rods in tow)

Fukthesox...and mebbe we'll see you back up there next year.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Since I actually plan on using my spey rod this year, betcha a buck it catches at least as many as you did last year on yours! Deal?

Deadbeat? How dare you...I resemble that comment.

Todd,

The only way to be sure you'll use your Spey rod is to leave all your gear rods at home. Confidence, bro, confidence. Many of us have never taken a spinning or casting rod to Canada.

Sg

That is partially true. Last year with the high water, the fish were holding tight to shore and you only needed a 40 foot cast so I used the single hand rod the whole time. I finally strung it up on the last day just to play with it a little and so I could brag about Spey casting in BC.

I have not taken a gear rod but I'm still trying to figure out a way. I found a four piece casting rod that I may break out should the opportunity arise. But it is not a Sage One so I digress from the original topic.

Fixed that for you. Sad, but true......

Even *I* could manage a spey "cast" on the Skeena for a steelhead last year. Although, when I was there, the Skeena was so low that I could cast half way across the river at the vegetable patch!

Never did see any high water last year. Looks like that's not a problem this year.

"Cast" is probably the wrong word. More like...well...I don't know what it's like.....

...if I only had a Sage ONE! Damn.

Even a Sage ONE can't cure the water conditions going on up there now. Just about thick enough to plow. Glad I didn't buy a temp. license and a week's worth of daily passes . . . yikes! I didn't hear back from Todd; did he go?

Sg

Not leaving until Thursday...should arrive just in time for the rivers to be fishable

Fish on...

Todd

Say hi to April for me.
Would love to see a pic of her with a Scotch and a cigar......hell, naked would be OK, too.

Have at it dudes.... I'm giving it two and a half more weeks.

Great, I'm leaving a week after Ripley and his worms and spoons while I'm flinging flies.

I guess my only condolence is I'm pretty sure I'll be on a different river.

I'll be flinging flies for a few of the days, too...but I wouldn't expect the fish to get much of a holiday because of it.

Fish on...

Todd

Wooie, look who's talkin' fly smack! You get 'em Todd.

Just fishin' smack in general...the only difference between flyfishing and other forms of steelhead fishing is the delivery system...they're the same fish, in the same spots, with the same habits, no matter how you fish for them.

Fish on...

Todd

Sometimes Todd can be such an ascothole.

Adapted for swinging.

Find the aforementioned green slots, wade in up to your belly button, cast as far as you can to the other side of the river, repeat all day while taking small steps down, hook no fish, give stink eye to each passing boat.

To complete the experience go home and rant on the internet about etiquette and line selection then spend a few hours polishing your new Sage ONE.

There we are. Back on track.

Back to hijack, which is more fun. Astonishingly, there is some actual winter fly water on the Duc, when Q is low. Been there, done that, but only a couple times. The majority waving fly rods there aren't fly fishing; they bobber-cate, which, like bait fishing, is far more effective for winter runs on the Duc and elsewhere.

Sg

There may come a day when I decide I've caught enough steelhead to start refusing to employ certain tactics, but I haven't gotten there yet, so for now, I'll keep on bobdicator fishing the water I can't swing through effectively. I've accepted my darkness.

Nothing wrong with going to the dark side IMHO.....

Funny, a good friend of mine and one of the better fisherman I know makes similar arguments about swinging. Too boring, not interactive enough, takes little to no skill, etc.

Even though nymphing is "selling out" he prefers to fish that way over swinging because it keeps him constantly engaged having to read micro features in the water, mend line, mix and match casts based on the many variables, etc.

To him, swinging is boring to the point of not being worth the effort invested. Sure the tug is awesome when it happens, but throw in the fact that you are severely limiting your odds of getting to fight a fish, and the contest between swinging and nymphing, in his book anyhow, isn't much of a contest.

Coley, I thought you were talking about me until I saw the "one of the better fisherman I know". I totally agree though. Nymphing from a standing position is, without a doubt, more technically challanging and engaging than swinging. Getting drag free drifts through a combo of casting, angler postion, and mending isn't easy. There is also a difference between what most fishermen consider to be a drag-free drift and one that truly is. The fish certainly know. Granted, nymphing from a moving boat requires MUCH less skill (at least from the fisherman).

I'll concede that swinging is probably more "zen" but that is more due to repetition than anything else. Hell, swinging spoons is similar.

To each their own.

One other thing to add about nymphing.
Whether trout or steelhead, lots of folks automatically think of split shots and indicators which isn't necessarily the case.
Some of the best nymph fisherman I've seen use neither. They are masters at mending to acheive the results they seek.

Oh this style of discussion is so much more fun than the whoop-dee-doo of high tech plastic known as the Sage ONE.

I don't think the swing v nymphing discussion is about the relative degree of skill required of either among knowledgeable anglers. It's because an angler skilled at both can consistently hook a lot more fish nymphing. Why do I hear about good nymphers choosing to swing when they get the opportunity? For me (not a skilled nympher) it's always been about choosing to catch that more difficult fish, the one that would be easily duped by a nymph or bead, but may or may not rise to a swung fly. Same reason I took up archery hunting with a recurve bow decades ago, I was motivated by the challenge of stalking deer within 30 yards or less as opposed to popping them at hundreds of yards with a high power rifle. I used to know a shotgunner who felt similarly that pheasant hunting was too easy, easy shots in easy terrain, and preferred chukar hunting for its harder shots in more difficult terrain.

Meanwhile a guy on the Skeena says the Bulkley is out for two weeks. Maybe he's trying to persuade Todd to stay home.

Sg

1. Your guy on the Skeena is full of crap...that, or the four guys I've heard from the last two days are full of crap...I know where I'm putting my money.

2. I'm amazed by the seemingly easily accepted concept that steelhead get much smarter when you use fly gear instead of casting gear...their "smaller than a pea" brains are the same size no matter what you are throwing at them.

Due to the amount of days I fish per year, I gear fish some days on river conditions that are ten times more challenging than the four or five "perfect days" that a hypothetical fly angler might fish on...does that make me "more pure" because it's harder for me to catch one on a worm on those days than it would be to catch one on a fly on the good condition days?

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Blah, blah, blah.

A hook is a hook... No matter how you fling it out there.

Following Todd's line of thinking, who is to say that the steelhead that will come to the surface to hit a skated fly is the difficult one to catch? Perhaps the most challenging fish are the ones stuck on the bottom that you have to go down and get? Anyone can catch a "player" who is active and aggressive. Maybe the real stellar fisher is the one who can select the proper method, gear, position, and make the impossible presentation to catch that one fish sulking on the bottom?

My decision making with regard to chosen tactics basically revolves around two notions;

1. How do I want to fish today

or

2. What is the most effective way to catch fish today.

I find myself switching it up either when I am bored by either repetitive motion, or not catching fish...respectively. Maybe it is just the ADD, but if I do any one thing for long enough, regardless of how cool it was when I started, i get bored eventually. For me a big part of the reward comes from overcoming a challenge or building some degree of skill or knowledge. With spey casting at least, I do it so infrequently that each time is a lot like starting over, and I get a fair amount of reward out of just remembering how to get the line and hook out there.

The good news is that everything's not out...and the parts that aren't are fishing really, really well...can't wait, I'll be up to my knees in it on Friday morning

Fish on...

Todd

Whatever turns you on, fishing gear through my journey made me a better fly angler for steelhead; I've enjoyed the ride all along and still like picking up my old lamiglas on occassion.

At this point, in this anglers journey, it is a narcotic for the take on the swung or skated fly and it doesn't bother me to take my hits of less fish, I enjoy pushing that lever too much for the piece of cheese. It will be a successful day if I catch one fish if I personally expect more from the river it will be passion without joy. All I ask for in your pursuit is let me fish the piece of water I am in without interference. When I am done, go ahead and fish through the water for that difficult fish that I could not move.

Remember it's not contest and there is no trophy for your skill at the end only how you enjoyed the river it's fish and folks you shared it with.

Now back to topic; is the Sage One better than the rpl?

Blessed is the verisimilitude of the fishing fraternity. I'm intrigued that there are so many points of view about something so basic as trying to catch a fish.

Sg

I thought we were talking about fishing rods?

Very well said Double Haul.




PS - Today's word of the day is verisimilitude.

My word of the day is "I'mgoingtoCanadain24hours"...

Fish on...

Todd

Can't find that one in a dictionary anywhere?

I hope you don't contract a wicked case of pseudopseudohypoparathyroidism while you guys are up there.

Me, too.

I think.

Fuckifino.

See you when you get there, and I'll have your book to return to you.

Fish on...

Todd

DH, of course the Sage ONE is better than the RPL. It's the newest, latest, and greatest. And you NEED the ONE! So far I'm hanging on to one of the two RPLs I picked up in a liquidation sale, hoping I'll grow to like it some day.

Coley, of course we're talking about fishing rods, but because this is the fins 'n feathers forum, it's fly rods good, bait rods bad. I think that's what I read in Orwell.

Looks like Todd is getting excited. Hope he's taking his blood pressure medication. Have a great trip, and be sure Riley takes a bunch of good pictures again.

Sg

If anyone needs to borrow one of the not-the-latest-and-greatest root beer colored Sage Spey rods that's proven to catch big fish, before they head up, feel free to stop at my place.

I don't know what it is, other than it's a Sage. It caught The One, if that helps.

Swinging brass is very similar.
Moving quickly through a run this time of the year is the most fitting way to address these junkyard dogs no matter what you swing.

Last week in camp I noticed an October Caddis buzzing the lantern.
Yep, it would be cool to bust one on a skater. I wonder if it would it be a big wash or a showy slash like a striper ?
I'll probably never know but I do wonder about it.

Good luck to the northbound crew.

+1 on this entire post. Well said.

SG,
If you have a 796-4 RPL you'd like to get rid of, shot me a PM. I like those old brown Sage rods. After all the RPL was the One, one day long ago.
Thanks,
SF

I'm on my way!

Stonefish,

It was a 796-2 RPL that I sold. Still have the 8100-2. Just got a 7100-4 Allen, so may decide to sell the Sage. 4 piece are so much better suited to travel.

Sg

You just know there's beer on tap!

Fishermen are funny...... I like this place because PP is more like a heavy metal audience. Hardcore "flyfishing-as-religion" sites tend to be like Classical music audiences.......in that, if a classical guitarist suddenly plugged a Les Paul into a Marshall amp and started wailing a killer solo, the audience woudl be horrified. They'd plug their ears and run for the exits. Much the same as "flyfishing-as-religion" toolboxes eschew any other form of angling or a photo of a fish caught on a spinning rod...the tool of ignorance, in their opinion.

BUT.....if a heavy metal guitarist like Eddie Van Halen pulls out an acoustic guitar and plays "Spanish Fly" the audience goes wild. Just like PP did when Stam pulled out a fly rod to catch a bonefish, or when Parker used a spey rod to catch his 30 lb trophy BC steelhead a couple years ago. Yes, some snickered at Van Halen / Stam / Parker, but it was in good natured rib poking mode, not outright animosity.

I like heavy metal crowds better. More open minded, in my opinion. At the end of the day, we're all a bunch of idiots waving expensive carbon fiber sticks at fish with brains smaller than Jose Canseco's left nard.

I'm more like swing and classic rock...

No metal here either. Classic rock all the way. What's swing?

We don't 'low no animosity here on PP. We're all equal opportunity razzers.

Gotta' say tho, that Parker hooking and landing a trophy on a Spey rod isn't like a blind squirrel finding a nut, more like a blind squirrel finding the gold of the Sierra Madre! Considering the odds, Parker should never pick up a fly rod again. No - maybe Parker should never pick up any rod again. It's all downhill for him.

Do agree that fishermen are funny, which is why this thread is so entertaining.

Sg

wOOt!!!!

No can do on never picking up any rod again, SG! Still have some goals left to accomplish before I leave this earth such as....

-Getting a 35+ pound steelhead on a spey rod.
-getting that 20+ steelhead on a spinner. Got fly, eggs, pink worm, rag, spoon, plug, and jig covered!
-getting a king over 50 pounds.
-getting a king over 70 pounds.
-getting a silver over 20 pounds.
-Putting in some serious fishing hours with my children.
-Countless places to fish on this earth (too many to name here).
-fishing and catching a fish without a guide.

Oh wait, who am I kidding. That last one ain't gonna happen!

That Parker guy, he's a good sport, but I don't think he'll make the cut for either the next fly fishing or bait fishing super model. Something about the "model" part of the equation just doesn't add up - ascot or not.

Isn't anyone else going to weigh in on music in this Sage ONE thread?

Sg

I like both kinds of music, country, and western.

Here's the scenario.....
You're in a favorite run and it's full of players.
It's least 100 yards long...probably longer.....yep, longer.
It's all yours and there's no friggin' wind.
The wading is tough but that's the trade for good structure.
The casts are coming pure....most anyway.
It's big water and you have the range dialed.
You hooked up and landed a nice fish at the head.
Now you're snot-nosed and pushing hard...hell, you're moving down on the swing.

This would be rock....loud, heavy metal rock barely audible over the roar of the rapids downstream.
And hopefully there's fresh underwear back at camp.

DD
Who has the above on the schedule for this weekend.
Hopefully it plays out.

Don't forget Weird Al and Jimmy Buffett!

PS. Can I borrow one of your ascots?

Thunderstruck was a staple in the locker pre-football game for quite a few years. It still gets me amped like few other songs can.

Symphony of Destruction is another.

I think my heart rate just spiked a little at the thought.

Let me tighten my ascot...brrrrrrrrrr...It's Dylan, Bob Dylan...

I know a cow song that fits this....

"The coyote call, and the howling winds wail...."
http://youtu.be/IN862-bRsXs

"Guess who just got back today?"
http://youtu.be/BbYPfbNR7KE

Settle into some dub and start working some water. Book it.

You mean not all steelheaders settle into deep dub mode before stepping to the water?

(Sage One, aint the one...)

Dood...Ryley and I rocked the dubstep the entire drive up, the entire time there, and the entire drive home.

Somehow I knew already you'd be down with that.

My anthem? .50 Caliber and Bass Cannon...with a little 2Die4 on the side...those are the track names, look 'em up if you don't know 'em.

Salar, you're safe for another year...I brought up two flyrods, never even got them out of the tube this year.

It was better than last year...oh, my...yes it was.

And last year was good...with a capital "G".

This year was better, with a capital "B".

Big Fish Year, with a capital "BFY".

Fish on...

Todd

Yeah Todd, but they don't count if you didn't catch them on a Sage ONE. Too bad; better luck next time.

I guess I won't be getting any calls for Sage sponsorship again this year...I'm pretty broken up about it, to be honest.



Somehow I'll manage to not kill myself.

Fish on...

Todd

All I can say is "wow".....I just read that whole monster. Makes me want to hook the Scott S3S 9wt/4piece w/ the gold plated Fin Nor #1(enviable serial # in the low teens) up to the downrigger tomorrow and go get me a silver .....of course, I'll be sipping a "bit of the Dalmore" while chasing it with PBR. My hot girlfriend(wearing tweed of course) will be filling my handmade Meerschaum pipe while we "floss" numerous silvers. I live for this, and you lowly bait chuckers/gearheads just wouldn't understand, which is true.....(I might be dragging a herring off that rod tomorrow though), so the borders get a bit muddy. In fact, aren't we all just fishing?.....Tom

Reads a bit like you're beginning to get it Tom. Good on ya'. Not everyone does.

Sg

I was almost the opposite. I brought a 4-piece gear rod (so it would fit in my fly rod case). Hooked a fish on a copper RVRFSR 1/2 ounce spoon after about 3 casts and broke it while landing said fish and was "stuck" fishing flies the rest of the trip. Wound up breaking Sage Z-Axis (don't own a One) too. I lay the graphite to those fish.

Many drag dependent fishers would soil themselves trying to handle Mr. Big in direct.
I know, I almost did the first time....crackered him off, too.

Different strokes for different folks.

Is that the thunderstick you found last year? I've seen you attempt to fly cast, and you DIDN'T know what you're doing. What changed? Looks like nice fishing though.

Sg

I am certainly no expert and my decent loops are much less common that my ugly ones, but I have to say, Stam picked up the casting concepts pretty quickly. I was impressed. After a short session and a few pointers, he was hucking good looking loops much farther than he needed to for fishing purposes. I have photos to prove it

I saw a German up in AK a couple of years ago. That guy could cast a spey line as far and pretty as anyone I'd ever seen.

He also would have starved to death had salmon been his diet.

The more spey dudes I spend time around the more I realize that casting and fishing are often two different pursuits.

I just really don't see the need to consistently make long casts for steelhead if catching them is your ultimate goal. More and more it seems like for many two-hand rod toters, casting well and enjoying the motions thereof is primary, and the catching is secondary. Nothing wrong with that. I just had this conversation at length with a friend while on an extended float trip for steelhead. It took a while but eventually he was able to admit that he would rather cast well and far and limit his chances of catching fish than make smaller, less interesting casts and fish more effectively.

With regard to the catching, if you find yourself casting farther than say 40' regularly you are either a) not fishing to fish, b) on the wrong side of the river.

I can perhaps see the need in more of a true summer run/warm water fishery where you might get an active fish to chase something down from a mid-river holding spot, but in most cases, they are holding close to one bank or another even in tailouts.

So Coley, what you are saying is, unless the river is 1/2 mile wide, 1/2 the Spey guys are always on the wrong side of the river?

For casting no,

For fishing yes...

and much more than half.

I fish the Deschutes quite a bit. It's big, about 5000 +/- CFS average summer flow.
There are many sections that feature prime depth/speed all the way across. If you can cast long you have an advantage.
And yes, I've spooked them under foot many times in the early hours and I've seen fish hooked very close to the bank.
My MO is to clear the area close to me as I start into a run and then work up to long casts as I step down.

I don't know how far I'm casting exactly but it's over a 100' depending on the run.
Once in a while I'll see a spey guy really chuckin' it and I'll say to myself, "Damn, that guy's into my zone."

So in IMHO, long casts can work depending on the river and the layout of the run.

Sorry Stam, but the same devil was at work here, too. The only thing obvious is that Coley is vouching for you.
And Scandinavian here, not that it matters.

Coley, maybe you should post up some pics of Stam Spey casting, for verification and critique, ya' know.

I hear comments like yours about Spey caster/fishermen a lot, but I don't identify with it. Makes me think that I hang with an entirely different set of the fly fishing fraternity. I see Spey guys on some rivers who don't look like they know a lot about fishing. I assume they are new to the game, and often I see them fishing with guides.

I think you're being short-sighted to say that casting to fish regularly means casts no more than 40'. It depends on the river and where the fish hold in my experience. That's not to say that the fish aren't holding closer to one side than mid-river. I fished the Skagit and Sauk successfully for over 20 years regularly casting 60' - with a single hand fly rod - and not because fish held 60' out. Often I'd be fishing to steelhead holding 20 to 40' out, but with the idea being a low and slow swing, the 60' of line presented well. Weekend before last on the Klickitat a line of about 45 - 60' was about right for a swung presentation. The day before while bobber-dogging from the raft - that's totally different. A cast over 40' was out of control, so the shorter the better the control, up to and including dapping.

The only places I know where long casts as fishing casts are the norm and are effective are the Clearwater (ID) and the Thompson. That's because the channel morphology is such that the steelhead hold all across the stream cross section and can be taken anywhere you can make a suitable presentation.

Anyway, it's fun and entertaining to see Stam venturing over into the light side, the Stam who said nothing good can come of fly fishing. He he.

Sg

10-4 on the pics. I will dig a few up before too long. Still unpacking from the trip.

I don't argue that fish can and do hold throughout the river. I still think the majority are within easy reach of one bank or another. My main point is that success in the form of hooked fish comes as a result of time in the zone. Making long casts to faraway fish usually results in very little time spent in the zone and minimally effective presentation. Sure you can cast to them, but that is very different than fishing to them effectively. More time spent with your gear in front of the fish will result in more fish hooked, and concentrating on water where that is most easily accomplished is good strategy if the catching is higher on your priority list than casting. To effectively fish on the long casts you have to get low and slow quick, which often means sacrificing the more productive part of your swing.

I would be curious to know how many fall/winter fish are caught in the first 1/3 even 2/3 of the swing. In my limited experience and observations, the last 1/3 and hang-down result in 95% of takes.

PS - I am not vouching for Stam. He is still a dirty gear flinging bait monger, but he is a very good steelhead fisherman

For folks that know the fish, the tool holding the hook and line is of secondary importance when it comes to catching.

ive got a Sage, i am however not the greatest at casting it, and dont want to break it, so it just sits in its aluminum tube, might play with some searuns with it one day, to get the hang of it...

Coley,

We must be fishing way different water types then. I get half my strikes in the first 1/3 of the swing and most of the rest in the next 2/3, with maybe 2% on the hang down. Hang down strikes usually don't result in a solid hook up, and usually occur in unique layouts. I try to avoid a hang down strike by fishing in a way that keeps swinging past the holding lie if at all possible.

Agree that the fish are usually within reach of one bank or the other; easy depends on stream channel morph, cuz those high bank sides that are vertical are impossible to fish from, wading that is. Steep high bank is why I bought my first Spey rod.

The way to have your fly spend more time in the zone is to use more lead or tungsten, but then this conversation is about fly fishing. Less time in the zone is an inherent compromise to fishing a deep sunk fly with traditional fly fishing methods. It is exactly that which lead to split shot indicator nymphing methods. There is only so much efficiency that can be attained with floating line/sink tip/unweighted or lightly weighted flies. I look first for holding water and then assess whether I can cover it effectively. The downside of swung fly fishing is that in most rivers there is always a bunch of what we call "conservation water." That's moreso the case in winter fishing than summer.

Sg

Who you callin' a tool!?

Pun intended

Oh Stam, yer gonna' sink deeper and deeper into this end of the pool. Welcome aboard!

Talk about living the blessed life, you run into random guys on river who just happen to work for tackle companies and want to send you schwag. And you'll probably get laid by the UPS delivery gal . . .

Classic "gear guy goes fly" post, love it.

Glad you guys had a good time up north & made it home safe & sound.


c/22

Geez, ya' catch a fish on a Spey rod and now ya' go gettin' all uppity. Sorry for having any doubt. Sure hope that driver is a gal . . .

Thought you might be going ascot shopping Stam.

Having cast a fly and caught a fish hardly makes you a member of the enlightened camp. Attitude says a lot Stam, and you got a whole lotta' that. As for drift fishing with conventional gear, been there, done that. More than once even. And altho never an expert, yeah, when fish were around, it was as easy as you make it look.

I don't dislike gear fishing. I just can't stay interested in it, unless I'm hooking up every 15 or 20 minutes, and even back in those days, that was a very rare, if ever, occurrence. Fly fishing keeps me interested, even when I'm not catching fish, which is what the majority of a day's fishing consists of, regardless of gear type, and I'll throw gillnets into that mix. Done that too.

Salar makes a good point. When it comes to put downs regarding gear type and method of choice, you're leading the pack around here. Course, then there's Todd who's all about Spey Pride.

Lots of good info in these past few pages with the exception of Sg confessing that he was bobber dogging from the raft with a fly rod.

My fishing partners, old hands of the Skeena, have chided me that I cast too far (single hand) and that the fish hold closer to the bank. While I did learn from them that fish will hold in much softer water than what I fished down here, I still maintain that if you cover the close water first while swinging, you can still catch the close fish and give yourself a chance to catch fish out further. What I like about catching fish further from the bank is if they get in the faster water, they will often peel off all your fly line and a bunch of backing. You may not land those fish but seeing a fish jump and cartwheel 100 yards downstream from you is still pretty frickin' exciting.

Even though these guys know the water and are better at reading water than me, I out fish them, mostly because of my youth (I'm in the water fishing more) but I also think I catch more fish because of my ability to cover more water due to longer casts. By longer casts, I mean 75 feet instead of 50.

One advantage a single hand rod is (aside from being easier to carry in the boat) is about a quarter of my fish have been caught while stripping or casting upstream (dead drifting) and picking line the past few years. Those two approaches are more difficult to do with a two-hand rod. But there are advantages of a two-hand as well.

Gear, fly it is all good to me. Just wish I had more time to do either.

As far as the Sage One, I know someone who recently purchased an 8 wt. I'm hoping to cast it in the near future to form my own opinion on it.

Lets try and stay on topic here.

DaveD,

Terribly sorry about the bobber dogging, but part of my "compleat angler" quest includes doing some nymphing, for trout and steelhead. For all my years of fly fishing, it's a method I'd never tried. I think that's because under the old fly fishing regulations neither weighted flies nor split shot on leaders was permitted, so I never tried it on other waters either. It isn't likely to be my preferred style, but may help persuade Stam that I am open-minded about fishing.


Stam, who appears concerned that there's a segment of the fishing community that thinks of itself as elite. Yet he's humble enough to say:

"now I get to speak as the enlightened open minded one"

"my criteria for a good fly fisherman is one that feels the same way about the fly mentality as me...."

"and ruffled feathers are never not fun"

And that last one, speaking in double negatives, imitates your psychotic friend Larry. Hard to say where yer headed with that.

Sg

It cast nice. I tosed an 8wt a client had in AK. Landed a 27" bow on it. I could cast pretty close to a hole sharkskin with and indicator and beads so it made my goofy casting ass look good
Stam- funny chit!

Casting nearly a whole flyline with hardware attached to the leader testifies to a lot better than goofy ass casting.

Sg

Sg,

I was totally kidding you, but you are smart enough to know that without my stating it, especially if you saw the "grin" icon after the "beat head" icon. If anything, I respect you more (if that were possible) for trying a new technique rather than just bashing it.

My experience with fly rods, bobbers, and split shot is if I want to fish that way, I'd rather just use a spinning rod and float, a la Dave Vedder.

Back to the Sage One topic, I know a very prominent, experienced fly shop owner on the eastside (who has access to any rod he wants) replace all his Sage Z-Axis rods with Sage One models as he indeed thinks they are The ONE (at least for now).

. . . and ruffled feathers are never not fun . . .

You ain't the only guy here with a sense of humor Stam. I'm sure I have a few other lines like that in my inventory for when I want to check and see if anyone's listening. Thanks for being a good sport. Now that you know what to do with that thunderstick you found, wanna' do a repeat float of that upper river we did a couple years or so ago later this winter? Only make sure your waders aren't leaking first.

Sg

Wear any waders for a while and you'll come to the same conclusion. Waders wear out. Sooner for some.

OK, looks like I'm outa' jokes before you are, but I'll try to think of another. Can't let such a good thread die.

Two guys asked me "what are you using?" and "can I have one?" up in BC...both were swinging speys unsuccessfully, and both put spoons on their spey rods after the handoff.

I find that the prettiest casters often have that to look back on at the end of the day..."did you see that cast?"...while some of the ugliest casters know where the fish lie, and shovel it in there...and get to have memories of fish hooked, instead of casts made, at the end of the day.

Flyfishing is just fishing...steelhead are just as stupid when you have a flyrod in your hand as when you have a spoon rod in your hand, and they are sitting in the same spots, and will hit the first well-presented offering, even if it's made of feathers instead of brass.

Fish on...

Todd

There it is. I think many of us give steelhead way too much credit in terms of their wariness and/or intelligence. I've been guilty of that more than I'd like to admit. Once we figure out where they are and how to put something (next to anything) in front of them, they don't seem so smart anymore. Of course, this doesn't take anything away from their general awesomeness.

I recently discussed with a guide/friend that steelhead are actually great biters by comparison. For a frame of reference, consider fishing on a blue ribbon trout stream that holds tens of thousands of trout per river mile. Most of us would agree that even there, a 20 fish day is a great day of fishing. Now consider that even the most productive PNW streams get only a few thousand steelhead back each year, with probably no more than a couple hundred in a given mile of river at a given time, yet most of us who've been at this for any real length of time have had at least one double-digit day on steelhead. Great biters in my estimation. Of course, this is not to suggest that I always catch them....

OH... and I would like to own a Sage One, but I don't need it right now.

Wow, I agree with Todd, except my casts aren't ugly and you get extra credit for sticking with a single hand, which is still called a fly rod, not a Spey rod

If its your job to do it you better be ok at it I figure

Has anyone here cast a TCX and how do they compare to the old TCR?

OP,
I've cast both. I like the TCX better then the TCR, but I'm not a real fan of any super fast action rods. My buddy ended up selling the TCR I fished for a few days. People either loved the old TCR's or hated them. One past shop owner I know liked to refer to the TCR as the "Totally Crappy Rod".

Brian,
my 10" 7wt (T)rout (C)atching (R)od was a sweet stick
first 30" bow came on that rod, I liked it for hucking big 5inch flesh flys under indicators in AK.
Ive heard kinda the same thing its either love hate, but Im curious, what'd you like better bout the TCX?

Justin,
The TCX just seemed to have more feel to it. The TCR I cast was so stiff it just felt dead to me. I really like medium to medium fast rods, so I'm probably not the best source to compare the two. I just liked the feel of the TCX better.

You said your TCR was a sweet stick. Did you break it and are thinking about upgrading to the TCX?

I have several nitches to fill and there are only a few rods that are safe from something needed in the house/gf's engaement ring/anything that comes up:
Winni BIImx 12'3" two hander
Winni BIImx 7-9'6" (Client rods/bad ass sticks)
Sage RPLxi 8-9'6" My winter bead stick

In the market for a really fast 6wt for beach fishing and was thinking a TCX might just make a sweet cuttie rod

I'm not a student of the Sage alphabet, so don't know most of these rods. I have a slightly older Sage RPL 8100-2 that I regarded as stiffer than a fireplace poker. I finally used it for the better part of a day a couple weeks ago and so only now noticed that the grip is turned to a larger diameter than I'm used to. Gave my casting hand a bit of a cramp. I'm told it has strong nymphing potential, but then again so does the 11 1/2' mini-Spey, so I'm not sure if I should try and jerry-rig it to my ad hoc rod grip turner and thin it down a bit or just sell it. I'll mull it over a bit.

Sg

i have 2 Sage GFL 7100 RP Graphite II's, one 10' the other 9', and they arent stiff at all... i believe these were one of the first rods Sage built starting in 81... im just not doing something right, i can roll cast them fine, but start swinging, and i start messing up... compared to the Lamis and Cortlands, Sage is by far the better fly rod in the inventory... just wish i could cast it better...

Spend the money on a casting lesson or two with a FFF certified casting instructor. There are some really good instructors locally. It will be the some of the best money you'll ever spend on flyfishing.

It's hard to believe...but Sage has come out with a new line of rods that is better than the "One"...and no, they didn't call it a "Zero"

I wonder what next year's "best ever" will be?

LOL!

http://www.tridentflyfishing.com/blog/sage-method-8-weight-fly-rod-review

http://www.sageflyfish.com/fly-rods/all-water/method/

The best part is that it is bright red...that way anglers driving by will be able to see how cool you are without even having to get out of their rigs, and you'll be able to impress them with your rod buying abilities without having to nonchalantly lean it against the side of their truck (with the label facing them, of course!) while sipping Laphroig from your flask.

Fish on...

Todd

Speaking of red... Redington's new Vapen rods, fishing meets golf.

http://www.flyfisherman.com/files/2013/07/06aa5e6b-6997-4172-80f7-416f23288d51.jpg

Goodbye Sage One....
Hello Sage X
http://www.hatchmag.com/articles/sage-introduces-x/7713543

Is the X worthy of multiple pages?
SF

I forgot how awesome this thread was!

And...is!

Fish on...

Todd

It's only money.

Finally got around to reading the whole thread. Two Padron 1964 Aniversario Monarca Maduro Lonsdale Grande stained thumbs up!

Sage? Pfft. You fookin' discount single barrel PNW heathens. I wasn't aware Walmart had an Ascot section.

Scott. A true gentlemen's rod.

Never owned a Scott.
They do seem to have a Rocky Mountain Oysters Brotherhood cult following...just not out here. I hear Nick is a charter member of said cult

Stayed away from them after it took my buddy months to get his back on a warranty claim.

Hear good things about recently discontinued S4S models and the new Radian and Meridian models. The Tidal....not so much.
SF

Neanderthal self-incrimination?

When I moved out here from God's country, I went to the local saloon, bellied up and asked for a beer and some RMO's. Alas, there are no balls in this part of the country.

Scotty's are real nice - so are the Sages and Winnies. I'd take any of the above in a heart beat.

I have a couple few 20 - 30 year old Scotty's upstairs that I wouldn't sell for all of the money in the world. Some of the older rods cast as good or better than today's ultra-high tech ferrari's.

Oh...and upstream only growing up. My dad was a dentist.

So you were looking to eat balls and found out we don't eat balls here?

But you came here from God's country................where people eat balls?



Uhhhh. OK.

You could probably sell those Scotty's and buy some balls mail order.

Saw this on the Angling Trade website.
I wonder if this is a upgrade for the NRX or will both still be in the Loomis line-up?
Pretty heavy retail price tag.
The X from Sage and now the Asquith from Loomis. Lots of new high end toys hitting the market.
SF


Shimano technology and G. Loomis fly rod expertise takes a step in unison to bring a unique concept to fly anglers worldwide in a new series of fly rods called Asquith. Theline-up includes nine ‘all-water’ rods in nine-foot 4 through 12 weights, and five spey rods offered in a 12’9” #6, 13’ #7, 13’6” #8, 14’ #9 and 15’ #10. With blanks rolled using
Shimano’s proprietary Spiral X process at its production facility in Kumamoto, Japan, and then hand-finished at the G. Loomis facility in Woodland, Wash., according to the joint Shimano/G. Loomis product development team, anglers will find the Asquith series to be “the most technologically advanced fly rods in the world.”
“We are making a bold statement with Asquith,” said world champion fly caster and chief G. Loomis rod designer Steve Rajeff. “By collaborating with my Shimano fishing rod associates at our world headquarters in Sakai City, Japan, and our facility in Kumamoto, we are able to bring together cutting-edge manufacturing techniques and materials with proven G. Loomis actions and design.”
With fast actions and generous power levels, “the Asquith rods excel in situations where developing high line speed and making precise casts means success,” Rajeff said.
He notes the rods are built and designed for demanding conditions and technical fishing environments – the culmination of these efforts to provide anglers with fly rods that offer exceptional casting distance, pinpoint accuracy, a lighter that expected blank and reduced blank twist.
The proprietary Spiral X technology creates a rod blank utilizing Shimano’s carbon fiber Infinity Tape core layer, a longitudinal middle layer of Musclecarbon to form a base structure to improve efficiency and performance, and then finished with a reverse-axis Infinity Taper outer layer. This patented construction process increases rod rigidity to reduce twist without adding weight. Spiral X also allows for a thin wall blank, and reduces rod ovalization even when under the load of a big steelhead, striper or tarpon.
Within the ‘all-water’ Asquith rods, the trout-focused #4, #5 and #6 feature custom bamboo/aluminum reel seats, while the #7 through #12 come with saltwater- friendly aluminum reel seats with Shimano’s lightweight CI4+ material inserts for both lighter weight and added durability. The guide train on all these rods includes Titanium SIC Sea Guide strippers with REC Recoil snake guides.
Also with the CI4+ insert aluminum reel seats and Titanium SIC Sea Guide strippers, the #6 through #10 Asquith spey rods have ‘Snake brand’ double-plated chrome snake guides.
Rajeff notes that during the extensive rod development, the Asquith 4 through 6 weights performed best when matched with either Airflo Elite or Scientific Anglers Mastery Trout lines. For freshwater situations with up to the 8-weight Asquith, Rajeff suggests the Airflo Exceed and Streamer Float, while the 7 through 12 weights in the salt call for an Airflo Tropical Punch or Scientific Anglers Mastery Bonefish Taper and Mastery Tarpon Taper lines.
Along with the Asquith fly rods, two Asquith fly reels are also available, designed and built by Shimano. A known worldwide leader in fishing reel manufacturing and technology, the Shimano Asquith 3-4 weight and 7-8 weight reel feature Shimano’s Hagane Body lightweight machined aluminum frame, full frame design for less line tangle, a sealed drag system, and a lightweight CI4+ material handle. Both reels have two shielded ARB (anti-rust) bearings.
For more information on the next step into the future of fly rods, view the Asquith section at www.****, call 800-GLoomis, or inquire about them at your favorite fly fishing shop.
Suggested Retail:
#4 through #12 – from $1000 to $1200; #6 to #10 spey – from $1200 to $1700