OK, I noticed a couple anglers today at Pass using stirke indicators. They would cast out their offering on floating line and let it sit. So can anyone tell me more about this way of fishing? It's new to me since 17 years ago. I spent a couple hours slowly rowing around the lake with a sinking ine and various buggers, Montana nymph and a streamer. A couple hits but nothing solid. Made me wonder if slowly rowing a fly around is an effective way of fly fishing. I remember fishing this way with my float tube but I seem to remeber more of a cast and strip back technique vrs just kicking along, although I'm sure I did that as well. I feel like a beginner out there!

This method can definitely take its fair share of fish. I sometimes use this method in rivers where the fly is under an indicator, I generally use a very large corky or poly yarn indicator. However in lakes it is common practice to use a very bouyant fly as the indicator and then run a second fly that sinks underneath the dry fly, hence giving you a nymphing setup. To make this method effective, it is very important to coat your dry fly with floatant that way it does not suspend beneath the water. Hope this sheds some light on the subject and don't forget about the fly fishing section; many more experienced fly anglers there than I.
Drew

<chidingly> Mike..Mike..Mike..

One week you take up fly fishing again.... and a week later ask for secrets from the dark side?

Don't you know people go to "fly hell" for fishng with indicators, or bobbers, as certain fly purists call them.

Me, I think it's a very effective way to fish chironomids (hereafter referred to as chronies) suspended at the particular level fish are actively pursuing chronies for food.

Some other anglers have tried flies other than chronie imitations suspended under indicators. Some fish leeches, hares ears and other nymphs and had good results.

To fish a fly under an indicator, one must first be fishing from a stationary position be it either from the bank or a boat that's double anchored to prevent swinging in the wind.

For indicators... use the biggest corkie you can find. Smaller ones and the stickon indicators seem to get lost in low light or choppy water conditions.

Is Fly Hell anything like 1000 casts for one fish Steelhead Hell?

I'm no purist, I just want to catch fish. I did notice the anglers I watched were anchored and just let their line sit out there. Which kinda confused me - guess I've always thought in terms of moving the fly/nymph/streamer along. Even with dry fly fishing there's movement. The fly is cast and "lands", a fish sees it land and comes to eat it. But these guys cast out and just let whatever it was sit there. So that's what is getting me confused...

I use strike indicators in a similar fashoin. I put a nymph (usually a chrono but not always) at whatever depth I want to fish ( I also usually use fluoro leader because it sinks faster) I cast out, let it sit for a few minutes, and then ever so slowly inch it back in. I find I have better luck in the spring and summer though. By the way, to me this is the most boring fishing technique and I find it hard to stick to unless it is spring or early summer. I'd much rather prefer to find some structure and drag an olive carrie special close to bottom near the structure very slowly giving it a small twitch once in a while seems to work in the winter for me.

Ok Mike&#8230; welcome back to the fly&#8230; things change and they stay the same&#8230;

Well you are starting out with a good question &#8230; bobber or keep moving&#8230; this is one of those questions that will cause a wide set of answers&#8230;

The answer is up to you and what you are willing to do and how long you are willing to give something a try&#8230; I personally use both techniques depending on what is happening on the water&#8230;

The following are opinion only&#8230; If you are going to use a strike indicator you need to anchor. You will need to find the exact depth where you are going to drop your fly (and you may want to make a note on a pad). Then you need to get the fly down to the bottom or close to it. Remember that the fish will go up and down throughout the year with the oxygen plain. If you are tying your own flies I would build a weighted box and non-weighted (because if a bite turns on and you bust off you want that fly back down as fast as possible). Always try and keep track of the exact depth that you had your fly when you catch a fish (incase you bust off, your bobber slips, whatever). We also have found that sometime putting a fly on the bottom as a drop fly and then one about 12 &#8211; 18 off the bottom, use to different flies (chironomid, and San Juan worm)&#8230; be willing to change things around&#8230; will produce more fish.

Now the appearance of just sitting there&#8230; well you really aren't&#8230; you will allow your fly to drop to the bottom and sit, then after a few minutes you will do a very slow retrieve (strip), generally it will be, an inch pull, inch pull, inch pull then stop (the stop is about the same as the time it took you to do the slow pulls), then you jest keep repeating that until your line is in then recast and start again. So you really aren't just sitting there doing nothing.

You can always keep trolling&#8230; this is a great way also. But you will need to find a spot that hold fish and then just keep trolling through that area. Again if one fly isn't doing it switch and keep trying new flies.

There is a GREAT book that I would recommend you read and then read it again! I will help you get more fish. The book is &#8220;the Fish Bum's Guide to catching Large Trout&#8221; (an illustrated manual on Stillwater tactic for the intermediate fly angler) by Mike Croft. It is like a comic book on fishing, but it is great.

Keep at it and tight lines!

The weather is starting to warm the water.... OH I CAN"T WAIT...


... The Honey Hole

sounds like wabowhunter is already over on the dark side!!

Chronies under indicators are a very effective way to catch trout. Usually the depth to fish is about a foot off the bottom as the fish are cruising around taking the pupa as they emerge from their tubes.

A fish finder is very useful for establishing the depth the fish are cruising and eating. Like I said above "usually it's about a foot off the bottom".. but that's not always the case.

I use a fishing buddy on my pram when I'm doing chronies under indicators.

And for those who have been concermed with me going over to the "dark dark side" of salmon and gear, I will be returning to the regular "dark side" of chronies and indicators this spring.

Well Zen Leecher&#8230; This may sound like blasphemy but&#8230; The Dark Side has it's benefits&#8230; if catching fish is a sin&#8230; then I am guilty&#8230;

The joy of tying and casting an imitation of nature's great food source was taught to me at an early age&#8230; I was also taught that if you wish to spend a day fishing be a purist&#8230; if you wish to spend the day studying the water and it's inhabitants and then, use deceit and trickery to entice a fish to gorge upon your imitation in whatever way it is presented, you will spend the day catching!

I had a (heated) discussion one time with an older gentleman that tried to convince me that if you used anything but &#8220;Floating line, Un-weighted Flies, and a reel with no Drag&#8221; you were not a &#8220;True&#8221; fly fisherman. To this I replied &#8220;If you don't use the brain that the Creator gave you, to be creative, then the fish that swims, is smarter than you.&#8221;

I use the freedom of choice to decide how I will entice the fish, be it pure or not, to give me the thrill of a sudden pull, a run deep or far, the aerial exhibition of the fight, and then thanks and release.

I too am looking forward to coming months and the return to the Dark Side, and the other side of the Cascades!

Tight Lines

PS&#8230; I have used your name sake many a starlit night to fight with beasts of the deep! I would ask the Purists if using an imitation and darkness was a &#8220;True&#8221; fly fisherman. Ha

PSS&#8230; I only use a fishing buddy to find depths, and perhaps underwater structure or springs, the first time I fish a lake, then it stays at home.

remember, bowtwanger, I too am a practitioner of the black art of indicator fishing.

I do not get bored watching for that little "indicator" to take a dive for the bottom.

I also use the sideview on my fishing buddy to locate and cast to fish. It works.

Where you comment on "an older fisherman"... back in the late 70's I had Dave Meyers (over on Chopaka) call me a stinking "moocher" because I let the wind push my boat while I was dragging a nymph. Dave is probably gone to fly fishing heaven as he was 83 when he told me that. He also said I tied good looking nymphs and wanted one for his collection.

I was re-reading some of the Frugal Flyfisherman's articles. May just have to update some gear - a new rod for starters. My rod is a limp noodle (ouch, can't believe I just typed that ).

Then I pulled out my fly tieing stuff. My old flies look OK, except I've forgotten the names of all of them! And I noticed - I don't have any chroinomides. But I have to remember how to tie them. I used to hit Lenore and just play catch and release all day in April on the Lahontas. I'd like to do that again. I remember the chroniees were the hot ticket. Anyone have a picture or can describe how to tie one? I know they are easy and I suspect I'll figure it out again pretty quick. It's off to Outdoor Emporium for some enamel tomorrow!

Mike,

Here's a link for some BC chronie patterns. I use a lot of Phil's chronies as I feel they are more effective than the usual TDC's or swannadaze chronies.

http://www.flycraftangling.com/

Been using these since 2000. If you went to the Bellevue fly show last weekend, Phil was down there giving demo's.

You won't need much more than the Black Sally's or the chromies.

Thank you Zen. I just got back from Patrick's Fly Shop on Eastlake Ave. The guy there showed me how to tie up a Chron. (to refresh my memory!). Anyway, I will check out this site as well. I hope my 46 year old eyes can handle tieing flies - the 29 year old eyes had no problems. Things change.

On a side note, the guy at Patricks suggested using a corkie as a strike indicator, using a toothpick to hold it place. What I didn't ask is, what size? What would you suggest?

Thanks!

I favor the biggest corkie you can get (within reason) as in bouncy water or low light those corkies are hard to see.

Also when you use your toothpick, peg the corkie from the bottom side. Othewise the leader gets hung up between the toothpick and corkie.

One other chronie imitation I play with is slide a red or clear bead (silver lined), your choice of color, up a hook and then wrap the hook with green or red wire. They sink fast and while they don't shine like Phil's chronies do work. I can "tie" those up in about 45 seconds.

yours in dark side practices,

Some further advice and guidence for MikeC the newbe flyfisher......welcome back from the darkness.

This may help you get started.

Often early in the season bloodworms are more popular than chronies....you better have some.

The strike zone is definately 2' off bottom early on,but may be otherwise as the fish get more active . I always start at 1-2' and watch the fishnbuddy for fish on the bottomfinder.

The "second strike zone is depth in the lake where the "feed " is going on. This can be critical and usually a band no more than 4' in depth widel It tends to be shallow early (often 4-6' depth) and progresses deeper till they hit the thermocline. Search till you find it....don't sit on one depth.

When you pass about 12 feet depth later in the season,you will have trouble casting unless you are a magician.
At this point you will need to "Discover" the quick release indicator and the false roll cast till your fly reaches the surface .....then a giant flip.
It's not much fun, but hell it's better than not getting bites, which is what you will do all summer when they're on the "cline" unless you master this.

For flies there are many good chronie patterns but you cant beat black/white rib in 12 to 16 for most of our lakes. Buy a couple dozen different patterns/colors to start and then learn to copy them on your vise.

Welcome to "Enlightenment". You will catch many more fish than you ever thought you could!! LET THEM ALL GO TO GET BIGGER!

A several more thoughts:

Get a spool of 4 or 6 pound clear mono. Tippet gets awfully expensive if you are using it in 10 to 20' pieces. Then attach 2 feet of tippet to the level mono leader. This will give me up to 20' of depth to fish my chiros at.

I use these little floats that come with a small peg in them, they sell for like 3/1.25 at Outdoor Emporium and the like. Use the smallest one you can, the fill won't feel it as well, and will hang on longer.

The time to fish away from the bottom is if a hatch is coming off of midges. Typically there will be swirling at the top, but you won't get any takes on drys. I will switch to a chiro, 3-5 feet down, and have constant action.

My #1 chiro is the Snowcone in red or black. It sinks to depth well, and is easy to tie. Just keep them skinny and small. Size 12-16. Snowcone has a white bead for the head, a floss body and some fine copper wire wound up it.

BTW, what's this crap about getting bored?? I can't keep my corkie on top long enuff to begin getting bored.
So far this year, 4 trips to Omak Lake and over 100 Lahontins landed to 6-7#. And in 36-37 degree water. Few years ago I thought trout didn't feed much in 36 degree water. Wrong, if the feed is there THEY WILL FEED!

FishinfellaS,

I agree with you on the "bored" comment. Usually the only ones I see getting bored while chronie fishing are the ADD types with short attention spans or new practitioners of the art of indicators who don't know how to fish chronies under indicators.

I don't think you need to fixate on small chronies in west side lakes as much as a lot of people believe. Twenty-five years ago, we were using large midge imitations-- however, at that time we were fishing later in the season-- after the opener in the latter part of April.

The midge imitations we used were anywhere from a #8 3399A to a #12, no smaller. Three patterns were exceedingly good, the Offut Lake Special, the Pink Lady Bucktail (not a streamer despite its name), and the Pink Lady Nymph. The first two were tied commercially by a guy out of Centralia. The last was a pattern out of the Flies of the Northwest book published by the Inland Empire Fly Fishing Club.

We'd fish these by casting to rises or blind casting, particularly around vegetation.

I've also found large populations of midges (definitely not chironomids) being swept down from snow-fed streams the last part of May, first part of June. These midge larvae varied in color between red and gray. Size on these, we called them snow worms, was somewhere comparable to a #8 or even larger.

I'm looking forward to trying these old patterns this spring. I'm also looking forward to doing the indicator thing the next time I have a day off.

Keith

Zen, watch your tongue, cause you're talking about me!!!

But us ADD types like to smoke the cigar, if we are smart....

That's why I equate chronies, and stogies.....

Rob

Rob,

So... how's things going now that you're on your meds??? Bet watching those indicators is easier. Remember I'm just ribbing you.

Also, no fair deleting individual posts about being "bored". I spotted that.

I understand the comment on being "bored" as my usual fishing partner makes that comment all the time. He rarely would fish indicators.

What I use for hooks for chronies is a Tiemco 2457 in either a #10 or #12.... don't see any reason to use smaller (caveat: in most cases). And... I rarely see the need to use any color other than silver, i.e., the "chromie". Silver mimics most colors when they are filled with gas and rising to the surface. Tiemco 2457's, for those who aren't familar with them, are a 2x short and a 2x heavy. I also do mine in beadhead pattern

I have tied chronies on hooks as large as a #6 for some uses up in BC. They sink fast at that size.

With some other info I've gotten I'm thinking of a local Snohomish county lake and chronies.

Well saying that fishing an indicator is fishing on the dark side is a little extreame. Sure, fishing an indicator for steelhead is like being Darth Vader himself but fishing an indicator in a lake or stream for trout is only being a Storm Trooper at worst. Usually when people are fishing an indicator in a lake they are using chronomids (midge larva and pupa) as said before. After letting the fly sink, they then very slowly strip it in with 6 inch strips or slow pulls with pauses.

Oh and Zen, I'm not Adam.

kjackson: I'm interested in this "Offut Lake Special" Got a recipie?

FJ15, try the old paper Patricks fly pattern book. Pattern should be there.

Offut Lake Special-- This is really too simple:

Hook: Mustad 3399A-- you really do need the shank length and bend in these proportions. If this hook is too dull for you, use a Luhr Jensen hook file. Size 8, 10 or 12. The original was on a size 10.

Body: Fluorescent orange yarn. (This is the same color as "hunter orange" not some of the steelhead colors).

Wing: A dozen white hackle fibers extending to the beginning of the bend and canted up.

Head: Black thread (essential)

Instructions: This is a basic fly but it should have the right proportions and correct profile. Start by winding a layer of black thread on the shank. Tie in the yarn well down on the bend of the hook (between 1/3 and 1/4 around the bend). The yarn I use is thin, probably about half as thick as the common knitting yarn.

Wrap the yarn forward, leaving adequate room for a largish head. Wrap the yarn back to the top of the bend. Wrap forward again. If this doesn't provide a thick abdomen, then you might want to wrap back about a third of the shank and then forward over that.

What you're trying for in the body shape is a thickish abdomen with a tapering, curved rear portion.

Tie in the hackle fibers as a short wing and then finish with a largish (about two sizes larger than normal ) head.

That's it. Once you figure out the proportions, it takes about a minute to tie.

The creator, I believe, was a biology professor at Centralia College named Rufus Kizer who also tied commercially and was one of the most knowledgable men I knew.

So you fish this on a floating line, longish leader and let it sink. We fished it mostly around lily pads and reeds and rushes, but it also works cast to rising fish.

Keith

Zen-life is good on my Meds - a tall black strong cup, and a fine cigar. Now, I have no power to delete posts in this forum, only in Fins and Feathers.....

I have never had any luck with Chromies, I know the theory, but I have never had a hit.

I mostly fish chronies deep just off the bottom, so mine are dark and skinny. But I still don't see the need down here for anything bigger than a 12. Bigger stuff is the same as Chromies, I never get hits.

Rob

Rob,

Maybe you need a "tutorial" on chronies and indicators on a local lake.

Well then, let's bring Mike along.

I'm free tomorrow. I'll bring the coffee. Where do we meet you and your boat?

Tomorrow I'm smelt jigging up at Oak Harbor.

The "tutorial" won't be until I get stocking confirmation on either Blackmans, Flowing or Roesiger. Any of those should be good for chronie fishing. Blackman's is my first choice.

Hey I'm up for tutorials I need all the help I can get. I have next Wednesday off and hope to get out to practise some of the tips you guys have been posting. I don't know where yet, someplace new. I might as well explore some new water ever week.

Kjackson: I waz a student if Rufus Kaiser at Centralia College in the 60's. Went on to gain a Forest Management degree. One of the most influential men in my life and a great fly tyer.

Regarding large Chronies: There IS one much larger than all others called Brown Bombers. They are Not brown in the pupa stage, adults are brown. Anyhow tie some 10 3x for this pupa and you Must have some because when they hatch the trout seek out only the Bombers.

Regarding Zens fixation on the chromie: He has been reading way too much Rowley and it's gone to his head. Most of the time here you will get SKUNKED with chromies. I am coming to the conclusion they work mainly in Canada where the Phantom Micge is prevalent in most lakes.

Regarding fishing other nymphs in lakes under the indicator take if from me it WILL work but you better take Advanced Piscatorial Pursuits from an expert before you start.....the patterns and technique must be perfect.

Hmmm, Fishnfellas--- the 60s you say? Forest management you say? When in the 60s? We may well have been contemporaries. I was there '68-70 doing the same thing. Went from Centralia to University of Montana.

Rufus had an impact on my life for sure. I just wished I could have been his pupil for four years instead of two.

He was responsible for me shifting my fishing to fly fishing as he could be counted on to give away his "secret" patterns after class or during lab.

Keith

Nope, not contemporaries time wise. I waz there in
61-62 in pre Forestry w/ Botany minor. He was one of the great ones in both. I went on for my batchelors at Wazzu and masters at OSU. Just Retired recently after long career with the State and Tribes.

The reason Rufus tied great flies is that he waz an aquatic biologist/limnologist and knew exactly what the critters he tied looked and acted like in every stage. Take a lesson from that.

He had a cabin on the lower Toutle River that we had retreats at. Waz great fun. Now it's probably under 20 feet of silt.

Fish flies! Catch a bunch!! Let em all go to grow bigger!!!

Hey, I almost went to my home town school there as well. We referred to it as UCLA - University of Centraila, Locust Avenue. But I ended up heading elsewhere (couldn't get away from that area fast enough...).

Hey PhishPhreak, ME TOOOOOOOO, I got what I wanted (AA degree) and got the heck outa there post haste.
That area is crawling with radical, redneck , John Bircher IDIOTS. They hung a half dozen "wobblies" from the bridge on the Skookumchuck down there in the 20's I think, for trying to organize laborers in the logging industry.

A very backward area of the state.