My only concern with Logging is the term Renuable Resource. Yes it will grow back in 40 years being able to be logged again. From what I was told once by a Biologist that an adult Doug Fir can hold like 300 gallons of water in its limbs. a tree that is 40 years old is just starting to be able to hold the water that is nessasary to preventing alot of the flooding that takes place as a result of those 100-200 year old trees being cut down. I am on the fence with this one. I saw what happend when Weyerhauser sold its North Bend Farm. It was said that the land would still be able to be used by Fisherman and hunters. While this is true. The fee to buy the pass from Weyerhause went from $ 50.00 per vehical for the year with unlimited people in the vehicle to something like $200.00 per person per year. I stopped hunting the area when that happened and the hard core enviromental antil hunting people got their wish.

SCARBOO

Who are they selling it too?

My concern is first and foremost access!! I am not trying to use scare tactics. I know I came accross like I am totally against the plan but I am actually on the fence. The fact stands that if the areas are desinated as wild and scenic, motorized access will become even more limited. From a conservation standpoint this would be great. From a hunting standpoint opportunity for some will increase while access for some will become impossible. I just wish they would give a better more detailed outline of thier plans.

Forgive me for not trusting our governments, but there is a reason they are not going to fully disclose the details of thier plans until after this passes.

http://www.wildolympics.org/

Fish on...

Todd

From the site...

Anglers and hunters support Wild Olympics campaign





Peninsula Daily News



By Matt Schubert



Wednesday, November 16, 2011

ONE OF THE assumptions often made about the Wild Olympics Campaign is that it’s anti-hunting and fishing.

A group of Olympic Peninsula sportsmen from Aberdeen to Quilcene say that’s not the case.

In fact, the collection of hunters, anglers and guides formed “Sportsmen for Wild Olympics” in support of the campaign.

According to one of those sportsmen, Jason Bauscher of Lake Quinault, setting aside land for national preserves and Wild and Scenic River designations will enhance the Peninsula outdoors scene.

A website constructed by the group explains their position to area hunters and fishers at sportsmenforwildolympics.org.

“We put that website together to show the advantage for hunters and fishermen in part because some of the folks around here don’t know about these benefits,” Bauscher said.

“They think it’s possibly going to be administered by the National Park Service and that it would be administered just like everything else inside the park [where there is no hunting allowed and fishing opportunity is limited.]”

But that’s not the case, Bauscher said.

Rather, he said, preserved lands would function in much the same way as the Buckhorn Wilderness — two parcels of land bordering the eastern edge of Olympic National Park.

Buckhorn is one of the few places around the Peninsula where hunters can actually participate in the annual high buck hunt offered by the state.

Such land and scenic river designations would help protect and improve access to hunting and fishing opportunities on the Peninsula, Bauscher said.

“The other folks in our group make their living by fishing,” said Bauscher, a hunter, angler and former timber industry employee.

“They support it because, first of all, they care about being able to fish it, and, second of all, they care about their livelihood that depends upon habitat conservation and access.”

Among those showing support for the campaign are Peninsula fishing guides Norrie Johnson, Doug Rose, Bob Triggs and Roy Morris.

Former Greywolf Flyfishing Club President Dave Bailey has also shown his support, as well as organizations and businesses like Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, Waters West Fly Fishing Outfitters and Washington Council of Trout Unlimited.

“As an outdoor writer, fly fishing guide, and avid duck and grouse hunter, I welcome the additional protections that the Campaign for a Wild Olympics is proposing,” Rose said in a news release.

“They will help safeguard the water quality that anadromous fish require, and preserve the upper basin spawning grounds of species like cutthroat, summer steelhead and bull trout.

“I will still be able to hunt in all of the areas proposed by the campaign, and I will be able to bring my black Labrador retriever, Ruby.”

Earlier this week, U.S. Rep. Norm Dicks and Sen. Patty Murray put forth an alternative to Wild Olympics called Path Forward on Olympic Watersheds Protection Proposal.

The amount of private land purchased by Olympic National Park under that proposal has been reduced from the Wild Olympics plan, from 37,000 acres to 20,000.

The amount of U.S. Forest Service acreage designated under the new proposal would also be less than that of the Wild Olympics plan — 130,000 instead of 134,000.

Still, Bauscher and others from the campaign have expressed support for the proposal.

“I was excited to see that the national preserve option was the one they went with rather than the national park option,” he said.

“It doesn’t give as much land as the Wild Olympics campaign had been initially proposing, but I trust Congressman Dicks and Senator Murray.

“I have to believe that Congressman Dicks and Senator Murray had good reasons to do that.”

Two public workshops on the proposal will be held on the Peninsula.

The first meeting is set for 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. on Thursday, Dec. 1, in Port Townsend at the chapel building at Fort Worden State Park Conference Center, 200 Battery Way.

The second meeting will be from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. on Saturday, Dec. 3, at the Museum at Carnegie, 207 S. Lincoln St., in Port Angeles.

Matt Schubert is the biggest idiot ever to be titled "outdoors writer"

....take everything he says with a grain of salt

Thanks for the info.

This map gives a pretty good visual representation of the plan.

It looks as though the proposal is calling for the re-designation of lands that are currently a combination of National Forests, State land, and private land. The lands would be re-designated as one of the following

1. Addition to Olympic National Park, likely in the form of a "preserve" which would be far less restrictive than typical Park lands. Administered by the NPS.

2. Wild and Scenic Rivers (Defines a three-fold purpose for designated rivers: free-flowing condition, water quality and outstandingly remarkable values). Administered by the Fed land managing agency currently holding jurisdiction over the land/water, mainly NPS and USFS I think.

3. And National Forests lands to receive the "Wilderness" designation. Administered by the USFS. The most sensitive and critical eco-systems and likely the most heavily regulated with regard to use.

http://www.wildolympics.org/docs/map_WildOlympicsWildernessRiversPark.pdf

Thanks, ColeyG. The map does some things to ease some of my perhaps paranoid concerns, but it also creates a new one. Did anyone else read the note at the bottom of the map? It says they are considering designating SOME of the "willing seller" park expansion land as preserve to allow hunting access. Seems to me we are allowed to hunt/fish on all the land in question today, as it lies outside the NP. Doesn't that seem like a potential gotcha?

Also, on a lesser note, it looks like the DNR land on the South Fork Hoh is a potential purchase. I don't fish the S. Fork, but I do like to camp there with my kids from time to time, and I imagine the DNR campground there will be a casualty in that transaction.

Not seeing much here to encourage me....

It all depends on the stipulations put into place when the land is transferred to the NPS. For example, in 1980 a huge amount of land was added to Denali National Park through ANILCA, the majority of which was to be designated as a preserve.

For the preserve additions, the Park basically just adopted all state fish and game regulations and maintained traditional use activities and access points (landing strips, atv use, boats, etc.) and maintains concurrent jurisdiction with the state. I would imagine these lands would function very similarly, but again it depends on the process and terms of transferal.

I haven't read the Wild Olympics proposal yet. But on huge issues such as these, I worry that my river access might be cut off........somewhere in the fine print. Maybe putting my boat in over a river bank damages habitat, or when my anchor drags in the gravel a few feet that I'm killing eggs. I'm cynical on issues like this, and I think we need to be cautious in our approach to any support. Is the PEW Foundation behind this?

Tug2 = Tug Tuggle?

+10

they need to just eliminate his collum

+1000....

git outta my dam woods

Yes, this is a Pew Foundation project. It has been in the works for 8 years or more. It started out as "Olympic Wild", then morphed into what it is today. This isn't something they just came up with. While they may have an address in Quilicene, the folks behind this are in Washington DC.

Stay in the city, huh?

Really?

That's some pretty weak sh!t right there.

my main thing is 1) the loss of jobs. 2) loss of access to hunt. why turn it over to the state to become more of the park with more regs, limited access, non maintained roads, and locked gates? I feel its working perfectly fine the way it is.
sure they say the access will stay the same but I am not really looking for access like the dosewallups although I do, and have done the high buck hunts there, 3 point minimum on black tail and for the most part thick timber to hunt, along with no general season isn’t really what I would call a good trade for what we have now.
The way I see it is a loss of public land witch to me is a bad thing… the park is big enough..

The irony is that there is no Slade Gorton in this. Patty Murray has truly won a classic battle. Good for her! First the Elwha dam removal ramping up earlier this year and now this!

I have personally seen former Senator Slade Gorton and Senator Patty Murray speak on environmental issues. It was polarized pretty much exactly like the debate in this thread. That was back in the 90s which seems like a different universe let alone just 14 years ago.

Same arguments last forever. But this time the Patty Murray and the people who vote for her won.

I am truly sorry for the economic losses caused by this. But we all have to suffer economic losses. It is called life and she ain't easy to please.

What an interesting thread. There are a number of facts that lead me to probably support this.

1. Although the forest practices in Washington State are much better now, there is no question that previous logging efforts have led to great environmental destruction.


2. The lands that are National Forest are, in fact, public lands. In our country the public is one man, one vote. Just because you live near public lands does not give you more than one vote. If you don't like it, move to Iran.

3. The nature of a renewable forest is rooted in the creation of a monoculture. Monoculture does not offer the diversity that a number of species require.

4. For those lands that are not public, the landowner has the right to sell to whoever they choose. If the folks who live and work on the OP want those lands to be "their forests", buy the lands. It's the American way.

My opinion is that I am mad as hell that the logging companies, landowners, and loggers that caused so much damage have essentially skated on their responsibility while laughing all the way to the bank. Cause damage - kaching! Kill fish runs - kaching! It is a tough thing for folks that are doing the right thing now to pay a price for the sins of their fathers, but that is the way it goes sometimes.

The park is well known out this way to pay way over market for land they wish to "grab". I don't know enough about it in this case, but I would bet this is out of the cards for anyone else to buy this land at even a more than reasonable price. I've heard of them paying double the market price on land around Lake Crescent. When they want something....they get it!