Long ago Stam correctly observed that Tye might be the one of us to decide if we were going to become bird hunters. Well he has voted and the choice is clear. We both love it! I am now planning on a few weeks in Arizona quail hunting in Jan/Feb.

Sooooo . . . . of course I need a new gun. I have a Beretta AL2 that is a good gun but its pretty heavy for me to pack all day.

I'm thinking of switching to s Benelli 20 gauge. I will keep the Beretta for ducks and some phesant hunting, but would use the Benelli for quail, huns, etc.

Any suggestions - advise?

Do I really need a 12 gauge for phesants?

2Many

I'm thinking used and want to keep it to $1,000 or less. Is it difficult to find 28 Ga ammo?

Ithaca model 37 Featherlite 20 ga...
find a used one, all you need

2Many

I may take you up on that. But I do need a gun that doesn't miss all the time. The current one misses quail - a lot. I think maybe the little buggers are wearing bulletproof vests.

For $1000 you should be able to find a used 20ga Beretta O/U easy, unless recoil is an issue and that is the deciding factor on getting an autoloader. For an auto; Beretta or Benelli is a toss up and I would buy the one that fits you and points well.

I owned 28ga Wingmaster and it is a fine utility stick and I don't mean to unnecessarily contradict 2many but ammunition is harder to find and more expensive particularly when shooting clays.

If you search around you can find a Remington Premier-Field Grade for under a $1000 (link below). Good weight and swings well. Its about all I upland hunt with anymore. I take the heavy pumps and semis out for waterfowl because they manage recoil better. You cant beat a decent and nice priced over/under for swinging on quail. 20 and 28 gauge will take down pheasants just fine. Its just a mater of shot size, pattern, distance, and shooter.

http://www.remington.com/products/archived/shotguns/over-and-under/premier-field-grade.aspx

Personally, I would rather have a 12 for everything and tailor the loads to the game. Perhaps swapping barrels for different tasks.
That way I'm always mounting the same gun.
Being a good wing shot is partly about keeping things constant and familiar.

The 20 is very capable. Just remember the age-old warning that a 20 will fall through a 12 chamber and lodge in the forcing cone. Then a 12 can be chambered on top of that. Yikes!
The ol' man drilled that into me.

For close-flushing quail like our California Valley Quail I would want a fast spreading, short barrel in SKEET bore. Not sure what type of quail are in AZ. You want to throw watermelons, not softballs, an old skeet shooter once told me, in reference to pattern size.

Oh and watch out for Dick Cheney

Dave----A 12ga O/U with a set of Briley 20ga. full length tubes would give you the best of both worlds.

lift some weights...........

DV,

Lots of good advice above. If I wanted two shotguns, I get a 12 gauge (I prefer a pump but most like autos) for waterfowl and pheasants and get a 20 gauge O/U for quail, doves, huns, chukkar and grouse.There is something aesthetically pleasing about a light, quick pointing over and under scatter gun for upland birds. I think you could find a used Beretta or Browning O/U 20 for $1000 in this economy. No problem finding ammo for a 20 and it would be rare that you would ever be carrying both 12 and 20 ammo in the field at the same time with the same coat. Plus your smart enough to not confuse colors and shotshell size right?

I took a pheasant this year that was flying away from one of the kids at 40+ yards with a 20ga. They have more than enough power to take down pheasants at range, providing that you do your job.

That said, I use my 12ga because you never know when a Capercallie might erupt from the bushes.

I've always used 12s. I echo the idea of tailoring loads to the birds. I used to use lowbase 8s for the first shot at pheasants over dogs. The bird was close, my reactions were fast, and the regular load of 6s just didn't spread enough to hit the bird.

What I have found most important is to make sure that the gun fits properly. I added a recoil pad to my newside by side and went from missing to hitting.

That or a pterodactyl...


I wish we had capercallie though!

12 ga. If Chupacabra comes calling, I want to drop the sumbitch.

Fish on...

Todd

Dave----Mossberg makes an O/U combo set that has a 28" vent rib 12ga set of barrels and a 26" 20ga set. The two gauge set is less than $1000. Both the 20ga and 12ga has screw-in chokes.

They call it their "Silver Reserve".

dave,

here's my take, as i have been travelling the same road as you as our dogs have come into our lives:
O/U's are nice, but they're heavy, expensive and give you 2 shots, not 3 (i've seen you shoot.. ;))
28ga. sounds good on paper, but shells are something like 2x the price for a lot less lead than a 12ga. 20ga. is certainly adequate for quail, good on pheasants. i did a lot of research on guns this past spring; figuring weight, cost, reliability, warranties, customer service, aesthetics (it kind of matters-other than the Glock crowd, nobody wants to shoot an ugly gun!). another issue i have is i'm left handed. If i was going to pay a lot of money for a gun, it was going to be in the proper configuration. i looked at all these factors, and ended up with a 12ga benelli montefeltro. it weighs in at under 7#, has adjustable shims to adjust cast and drop, swings like a dream, and shoots beautifully. i looked at a 20ga montefeltro and i think that it ran in the 6.5# (or less) range. (just checked-the 20ga weighs 5.5#, not 6.5) the other auto i was considering was the beretta xplor light. very light weight gas gun-very pretty. but beretta has a horrible reputation for customer service, and i've read some less than stellar reviews on this line of shotguns. not to say they don't make a nice gun. take a look at some of the stuff from this site:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/index.php

you may have to register

this guy has a bit to say as well:

http://randywakeman.com/shotgun.htm

i saw a really nice 20ga montefeltro at dj's in bothell a few months ago. still had the sticker on the stock. i think they wanted about $800 for it. i got mine at keith's in gresham, or. best price and saved on the taxes.


hope this helps
bill

Redd. They make the legacy now in 28 ga. Quite a step up in $$, tho. Why all the interest in the 28 ga vs the 20? I think it might be less versatile in that it's only offered in 2 3/4, while the 20 can accommodate 3" shell. Max load for the 28 is probably an ounce, pretty similar to the 20, slightly lower charge. What's the allure?

Willy

Dave, buy redd's Monte!

Yes, therein lies the rub : "who says all shotguns need to be versatile". That's the best reason yet to choose a 28. I'd love to have a stable of scatterguns, but alas, I can't. Utility suits me. My wife doesn't understand why I have a big pile of fishing rods. Same with guns. I guess I need to choose something that will fit a variety of situations, and for me, a 28 does not at this time. I can see the appeal for a stacked gun safe, though. Point well taken.


Willy

Red PM Sent. I may be a buyer for that 20 . . .

But I am enchanted by the 28, if I had to buy a gun tomorrow I think it would be the Benelie ultra light 20. I am not too concerned by versatile. I will keep my old Beretta AL 2 12 which is a fine all around gun. So I think I can do nicely with a not so versatile 28. I want to try to actually take my time on this purchase, but that is not my nature. I would like it before I head to Arizona in late January.


Bill. Okay, you saw me miss a few clays. Okay a LOT of clays, but I did hit the only phesant we saw at Cherry Valley. I am 12 for 15 on farm phesants. And about 1-12 on them farking quail. But I am having a ton O fun, so it's all good

Lots of information posted Dave.

It's more fun to kill 3 on the raise than 2 IMO.

I've owned alot of different shotguns from Perazzi's to Brownings/Remingtons. 20ga Semi is my recomendation for your task (benelli is a solid choice). My favorite was a 1100 28ga (not for geese but everything else including ducks over dekes) I'd buy half a pallet of shells a year for that gun until steel came into play. Went bacl to 20ga for upland and 12ga for ducks & geese.

Killed alot of bird over the years. A bird doesn't know if it's shot with a 28ga or a 12ga. Speed kills though, and pattern density is crucial depending on your anticapated bird as well as distance.

There's more pellets in 1oz of #8's than 1 1/8oz of #7.5's. WOW...I thought I left 20yrs of trapshooting behind me.

Never have had a Monte..but original Benelli SuperBlackhawks you could load 4 shells (one in pipe and 3 waiting) in it with the plug installed....They changed it in newer models...

Dave i used a 28 for years in eastern Wa for Huns and pheasant around Sprague area and it sure was a lot easier to carry than my EB meruko[spelling] over and under 12 and it did the job just fine pointed well and fast mine was a browing auto with vented rib

I have a single shot 10 gauge if you want to give that a try, Dave.

Andy

I fired one of those once. That's enough. But I bet if you had one with a skeet choke and a load of 8 shot you might get every quail in the covey.

12 for things that float and 20 for things that hide in the brush. Love 2 tubes on the 20. If it don't fit, it don't hit fo' schit....

Cant go wrong with the Benelli Dave, very light and very dependable. I have never had a jam in my Benelli SBE.

got me a bunch of shotguns and while my duck gun is a 12 ga SBE2 it isnt the gun I shoot the best with. Nor is my high priced o/u its an old ultra light Ithaca xl 900 auto that aint worth much to anyone but me. The most popular guns in the world fit me like crap. Find the one that fits ya the best. I have always wanted a nice o/u that came up perfect to my shoulder. When I find it I don't care if its 12, 16, 28 or 20ga, $25 or $2500 it will probably be the last shotgun I ever buy for myself.
Wish I was in the need and had the funds to go out and buy myself a new gun but I need to control myself now. Just lookin for Drakes Christmas present has almost added a couple to the stable. Have fun Dave. Gun shoppin is good times. If ya find the one ya want try to find someone with the same gun and shoot a round with it first.

How much for the 20 Redd ??? for the Daughter of corse

Art----I had a shotgun like you describe...the fit, the undeniable ability to hit whatever you pointed her at.......and I let it let her slip away.

I've always regretted that....26/25 straight was easy.

A four gauge set....Beretta 682 Onyx.

The old Beretta worked okay today.

NICE!

What a classic, beautiful photo.

Thanks. I am going to try to redo that next time so the heads show better.

Tye looks attentive and satisfied....but I bet he's sleepin' at your feet in front of a fire.

Merry Christmas Dave, and many more great hunts with a beauty of a partner.

Nice photo but I'm confused with the lack of sage brush and that green stuff in the background.

redd, your gonna drooooll

http://www.seattleguns.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=64516



willy

I saw that. A bit more than I wanted to pay, but . . . .

Yep...Same thing on the SBE's. The rotating bolt has to be "seated" or it's a no go. I've been screwed before when I tried to load the gun "slow-n-quiet", by not letting the action slam shut. Then when I jumped a puddle for ducks the gun didn't fire on the first shot. Had to rack the action by hand for the final 2 shots. Definately something to remember.

same with the nova pump. rotating bolt. actually its probably a good thing it doesnt fire when its not locked up.....

410, 28, 20 gauges all hit birds with same power just the pattern is not as dense in a 28 gauge as in a 12 gauge. I had some friends back in michigan that would only hunt ducks with 410's, but they were really good shots and did not try 60 yd shots

In steelhead fishing you can catch 'em all with every technique with one rod/reel combo...in bird hunting you can kill them all with one gun, especially if that one gun is a .12 Gauge.

That being said...it's a lot more fun to have a lot of guns, too And if you're going to have a lot, may as well get a lot of different kinds!

Fish on...

Todd

Hello everyone!! Quail in Arizona. Now that sounds like fun. They shoot thru Feb there. I might be down there too, but I will hunt thru the season in Wa. first, and hope fishing isn't too good or it will interfere with traveling to hunt. Bring the dog boots.
I use Benelli 20's for all my upland hunting these days. The Montefeltro's are nice. I used one for 3 years then switched over to a camo M2 a few years ago. I do some duck hunting with a 20. For some reason I hit better with the M2 so the Montefeltro has been sitting.
Just a thought, but if you hunt quail over a lab a 20 might serve you better. A 28 is a nice way to go, but when I use to run labs my shots were a bit farther, and I use to have to run when they get birdy. I talk to guys that say their labs don't stray much over 30 yds, and they never run. Wish I was that lucky. I had to run like a deer when my labs got on runners. I miss having one when the birds are in all the friggin Russian olive that has taken over in some of my spots. You should be able to do quite well with a 1000.00 as a budget. Have fun!

Benelli Ultralight 12 ga 24" barrel or same in 20 ga 26" barrel. Sweetest upland auto there is.