If it keeps up I will be off the grid.

RWWJ's don't do math. And don't use the word "fallacy". They get excited.

Wow, I think Hankster and I agree on something. I too would let them all expire, but . .. I would want $2 in cuts for every $1 in tax increases. I have alwasy said it takes both, and maybe big doses of both.

Problem is you can't make those cuts without goring someone's ox. We need a bunch of decent R and D to get together and agree on a reasonable course for America. Trouble is that is about as likly as getting an assist form the Easter Bunny and Santa.

Hurrah for you fP. Opt out of receiving any SS.
Since the Affluent society guy, LbJ managed to enable the SS trust fund to be a sugar jar for the general fund it has been ucked up. Once upon a time it was actuarily sound.
I get SS, I paid in for 46 years and I do appreciate the payback.
Cut your own throat. Leave the rest alone.
'sides don't grumble about SS until you have cleaned up the Welfare
System and the pet pork barrels we all pay for.

Your argument works if one was to accept your definitions.

You can "see" SS and the benefits paid out by the SS Trust as whatever you want, but that doesn't make it so.

I would also support a means test for SS benefits, only because the trust will either be insolvent or benefits cut to the point of being meaningless otherwise.

But I also know that's never going to happen because rich old people carry a ton of political weight.

So I, like you, don't plan on seeing anything from the SS trust to fund my retirement. Worst case is I just turn to a life of crime if I need to.

yawn. Is riv-air a trailer park? sure does sound like it. must be the only one in the park with internet connection.

Yeah. I'm finding it hard to disagree with that.

Somehow, I think we'll persevere, even if it requires a redistribution of wealth by *less legitimate* means.

Where does the six years come from? Am I missing something? I though the term was for 4 yrs.

yeah don't worry about chuck he is bat [Bleeeeep!] crazy. who knows where he got the 6.

Entitlements didn't create the deficit, and cutting them won't fix either.

It is known by everyone that the system is broken. The boomers stated they were promised this and that and how dare anyone touch it. They state it must be changed for the younger generations. Tax them more, raise the age, increase the limit, less for better off that pay more to start with, raise the limit and charge those we plan to give nothing even more, blah blah blah.

Well the boomers fail to realize they are taking the last of the "cake" and the younger generation is paying for it with no chance of getting any back. They complain that they were promised the cake but fail to realize they are also promising the younger generation the same thing and have no intention of fulfilling that promise. It is the boomers or their children but someone has to pay without benefits. I for one would rather help my children than screw them when the time comes. Few in the boomer generation feel the same.

the polarized society.

My son and his wife earned $240K in 2011. They paid over $30K in taxes and another $30k+ in child care for a 3 year old and a year old. Of
that 30k they get to deduct a $200 crumb of it.
I have advised him to NEVER depend on the Company or the
government to keep an agreement. Both are renowned welchers.
Ask the Ntive Americans.
I never made that kinda coin altho we had what we needed. My
retirement savings plan was always made assuming a SS compliment to
make a reasonable, above the poverty level, income. All those
plans went to chit when KACC took a bankruptcy dive to get out from
under the committments they made to their employees. Kinda like
American Airlines is trying to do now.
I would need one of those bright accountants to tell me about how
much I and my wife paid into the system and how much I may get
back.
Hopefully people with your mindset, (politely using the term 'mind')
will not be empowered. And hopefully you reap what you sow.

FP is in for a rude awakening as he gets older. I'm betting his views will change dramatically because right now he is completely FOS.

"These corporations provide things called "jobs" and when you tax them too much they relocate to other countries where they don't have to pay so much and the jobs go with them. These corporations also provide most goods and services in the market. The people who work for these corporations pay taxes, the people who own the corporation pays taxes and then the corporation pays taxes some more. They are actually double taxed already and can't afford to pay more, they will just relocate or shut down."

Most major Corps pay little to no tax. That's a fact jack. They relocate because of cheap wages, no benefits and lax regulations evironmentally or otherwise. If you really believe it's all double taxation then ONLY corps would be paying taxes. Corps don't provide anything that we the people don't pay for. It's not out of the goodness of their heart.

"Also, I think it's unfair to say that the "rich" pay little to no taxes. According to the IRS, the people making more than $200,000 paid about $.5 trillion in taxes out of $2.3 trillion collected. That's 21% of all taxes collected, paid by 1.5% of the population. Which is already way more than their fair share, yet for some reason you characterize them as paying "very little tax." Can you back that assertion up with any actual facts?"

You have really crossed over into RWWJ land. So what's your tax plan? We all pay the same flat fee regardless of income?

"Cutting the social security and medical programs by 1/3rd by shaving off benefits going to the most well off is actually going to SAVE the program for the poor old grannies who actually need it."

I bet you don't realize you are promoting socialism here. Equality for everyone. I like it.

2500 bones a month for daycare?

Where - the Waldorf Astoria?

Like I said, a rude awakening. A lot of that went around a few years ago when the markets tanked.

Probably the most relevant thing said in this thread, much to Dan's sorrow.

In that same vein, perhaps the foregoing debates regarding gubmint benefits, cuts to same, taxation, et al as to the cause of the American Dream turning into a nightmare are moot....

The pot talking to the kettles?

"If you buy stocks for dividends and real estate for rents"

They you got hammered when the markets collapsed. You sure you know anything about investing?

So please tell us your interpretation of the housing bubble bursting, and how investors in real estate prospered.

Yeah because rents, like dividends, remain constant.

So, we've established you don't own stocks or any real estate and have no money.