Dog and Dave,

no doubt beads work when used in certian aplications.. the problem with this dillbag is that hes constantly advocating flossing salmon and steelhead... he says it multiple times in several videos, and even breaks down the process with pretty good animation...

1, i dont know HOW you could floss steelhead... the majority ive seen swim with their mouths closed...

2, boot Kings way up the Clearwater are deffinately flossed using his technique, he even explains how ethical it is, and how much better it is for the fish... no hooked in the gill plate, or the throat ect...

i could make something similar to his product with a regular craft bead and some sand paper... i could replicate his "blood dotter" with my fingers...his stupid "king pin" could be replicated with a regular sewing needle... all the crap is, is a gimmick, that is easily replicated with basically household items, or nothing at all...

plus i HATE people that talk like flossing is OK... because its not, not in my eyes atleast...

I checked out his site, seems legit looking. As far as the products I've seen them all before in eBay. Except for the kingpin, he has marketing skill though. Steelhead fishermen love gimmicks, and at 1.99 for the kingpin that's a drop in the hat. As far as his videos I don't know I seen some whacked out dude for five seconds and turned that off. Flossing is not ethical at all, unless you are fishing the carbon for pinks. In that case you are putting them out of their misery. They get asshooked so often and so many times its probably a relief to be genuinely flossed.

its all in how you fish... there are legit guys, and guys that dont give a crap... usually they are the ones that haul snagged fish up and do 1 of 2 things, keep them, or kick them litterally back into the water because they are too lazy to bend over and release them correctly.. the also usually dont mark their catch either... i saw a dude last year while i was fishing eggs for Coho, and the water was up, i was getting a bunch of Dollys and he was hookin the crap ( litterally) out of the Chum... he comes down and tells me "how to get into some fish"... his lure, a hook (2/0) and 2 small beads, small as in the kind that come in Bobber Stop packs.... that day i left with my 2 fish, and he just hooked a bunch of boot chum...

ethics is one thing, cheating is another...

Pinks will bite in the Carbon as well, IF you do it right, if not, as you said, many get fouled, and it turns into a circus freak sideshow... god im glad i get a year off in between those runs...

legit hooked Carbon Pink, i tend to over think and put time into what i tie and use tho...

Look what you started Merg. haha

You guys are a little hung up on terminology.

Steelhead and trout (among others) eat beads. Flossing in this context means rigging your lure so that when the fish eats it, the hook gets them in a less lethal spot such as the outside of the mouth. See also hangback rigging.

Flossing in the context of river salmon fishing tends to mean people are line dragging unwilling fish.

Granted the end result with regard to hook placement is often the same, but the difference is huge.

Hangback rigging is a great practice that is better for the fish and highly ethical.

Snagging unwilling fish in the face is generally thought of as unethical when you aren't sockeye fishing.

It isn't really that hard to understand. One fish eats your bait, another doesn't.

I have seen quite a few pinks hooked on drift gear and the ones hooked legit were a lot nicer looking. The ones 95% of the time fouled out we're bighumped bucks from rotted out all the way up. Pinks will hit [Bleeeeep!] from what I've seen, yet a lot of guys on the carbon especially just do the standard movements.

Fish on...

Todd

I think that got a little off track there. we all know beads will and do catch fish in many different ways.
I think more than anything the guy is just a dingle berry, not necessarily a cheater. I think the stuff he is advertising for sale is stupid as all hell but the dudes trying to make money.
If Coley is right and he is not condoning people to use snagging as a proper fishing method I have no issues with it. If people are dumb enough to buy his stuff let them as long as the ethics of proper fishing are going to be used.
I still think the dude is sketchy.

i don't believe it's the beads thats wrong here. let the guy sell his beads. i don't see anyone raising helll with the tiny size that corkies come in.

the issue is the length of the leader, that trully creates the "floss".

use these beads on a 18"-26" leader it's totally fine. now try the same beads with say 12' leader. HHHHHM.

JFC Brewer, where'dja get her?!!

pfffffffft. She's orange.......




























































..........but I'd still put it in.

In addition to being a bit of a goof, the dude is selling stuff that works and advocating for effective and ethical practices. Just because you don't understand it and really have no idea what he is talking about doesn't make him the idiot. He is not condoning or promoting the snagging of unwilling fish.

are you serious?

flossing=snagging..... period

why make drift fishing complicated, why not just pin the bead at the hook so when its bit, its done... why rigg it up so that it "slides" down the line?

flossing might be ethical in Alaska, but it sure as sh!t isnt ethical in Washington... he probably throws 12 ft leaders as well with his "beads" and lets it "swirl around in the current"... yeah right, hes a douchebag, and a flosser... but, hes also an idiot, and may not know that people frown apon it... Egg Hoop?.... really???

[quote=redhook]are you serious?

why not just pin the bead at the hook so when its bit, its done... why rigg it up so that it "slides" down the line?

flossing might be ethical in Alaska, but it sure as sh!t isnt ethical in Washington


Pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about. Go read some of Eye Fish's posts on hang back hooks. Coley, Doc and I are NOT unethical flossers, nor are the vast majority of Alaska's rainbow anglers. There is a damn good reason why the bead is pegged above the hook and it has nothing to do with flossing. Just because you are ignorant does not give you license to rant about something you do not understand.

Hint - trout come to the bead and eat it. That is the opposite of flossing.

Redhook,

I suppose if he was intentionally trying to foul hook fish a using a FLOAT, that would certainly make him an idiot.
Snagging with a float would have to rank next to fishing without a hook as the least effective means possible.

But, if he is trying to fool the fish with an egg imitation without hooking it deep in the gullet by using a hang back hook, well that would be a fairly common ethical practice in many places, especially for trout or steelhead where there is very little current as in Great Lakes area.
Not as common a technique out here with our higher gradient streams, but that doesn't make it wrong or ineffective either.

FYI, beads with or without a float can be as, or more, effective than corkies or glo bugs at times. When the Cedar River was open, for years I was consistently out fished by a guy who used them exclusively. For quite awhile I thought he was an idiot too. Looking back I can see now who the real idiot was.

Its the same concept as what I do with some yarn balls. I will run them about 2-3" up the leader.
I was misinformed on what the guy in the videos intentions were at first. He is just a dingle berry with a camera. He should probably not mention snagging so much in the videos and it would not start such a whirl wind.
If the fish is actually biting the intended lure and getting the hook in a safer spot let it be.

Thanks for the thought Jake...........but no thank you.......

He's all PP now baby.

For now.......

Mr. Vedder, read through my posts, i never once said that beads dont work, infact i said they DO work... the problem i have, is this guy is from either Wa or Idaho... i also never said that you Coley, or anyone on this board is an unethical flosser... not once..

here i have some questions:

if using a small bead pinned isnt flossing, how come using a pinned corkie is called flossing by nearly HALF of the people on these boards? i use corkies all the time, and get sh!t for it all the time as well... corkies float, beads sink, either way they are small round egg like things, how is one considered flossing and one isnt?

the whole method of flossing or "lineing" the fish, is pulling the line through thier open mouths correct? well then its physically impossible to do that with trout, and steelhead, as they dont swim with their mouths open like a salmon does that has been in the river for a month... boot kings like his pictures show on his website can most deffinately be flossed, and this dude mentions "flossing" how many times in his videos? but never once said anything about a "hang back rig", not once...

someone brought up using them under a float would be flossing... well once again look at his website, its beads, stupid little tools, and FLOATS... thats all, no spinners, no yarn, no spoons, nothing.. just beads, tools you can make at home, and FLOATS...

you have to understand the problem i have with that stupid word, yes, people intentionally do it, but then there are also idiots like this abu tweaker, that say that im a flosser, and or unethical fisherman, all because i fish the Carbon river... i live less than 15 minutes from that river, so why would i drive to the Sky, when i can do just as well on that river? also, ive been given sh!t about flossing because of my avatar, because there is 2 corkies in the pic, i was called a FLOSSER because of that, even without the person not knowing that i was using EGGS.... can you understand my anger yet?

Abu, you should shut up, ive probably been fishing longer than you have been alive, if not, like my sig line says, i really dont give a sh!t... i also dont care about your stupid opinion towards what i like to do in my free time... you should stick to scouring the internet for pictures of chicks you will never have a chance at, since infact your snotty [Bleeeeep!] attitued has limited you from gettin laid your entire life... you know nothing about me, nothing about my background, nothing about who or what i know, your just another diptard from the internet.... keep doing that, it suits you well...

BD............. whatever...

I should let Abu and Redhook become Mods for a day.