So as you may know, I am a real estate baron.....

Bad part of my job requires me to rehab properties I have foreclosed on before put them back up for sale. I am the proud "property manager" for 4 such properties. Thankfully I have received some great help from a number of friends and family getting a few of these properties ready.

This leads us to our current project, a defunct car wash in Hoquiam. Concrete block structure, "I" and "box" beam steel structure overhead holding everything together. We have an abatement order from the city to take the roof off. Roof is interlocking panels, roughly 28' long, and instead of screwing these panels down, they decided to spot weld (probably with a wire feed) these panels along the "I" and box beam structure two feet from either end, and in the center along the center "I" beam. Getting the southern leading edge secton off isn't an issue, as the weather comes from the SW, and being Hoquiam, that means salt air. This means that the way they attached the roof failed first here.

They attached the roofing panels as such. Panels were layed across the steel structure, and then they placed something like cut washers on the panels directly on top of the "I" beam. They then ran the wirefeed filling in the center portion of the washers.

What is the most expediant way of getting the steel panel to release from the "I" beam at the spot weld? Sawzall blades worked well, but we went through 8 or so, and the time it took slowed us down. Cost isn't an issue on blades, as bank covers time & materials + equipment repairs, but if we could just rip through the project in 20 hours with 3 guys, that would be great. Two guys working for 6 hours got off about 1/4 of the roof. I have my Acet/Oxy torch, but I don't want to damage the "I" beams. We are working on ladders 14+ feet in the air, which isn't an issue for us for as far as heights, but leverage can be an issue, working on a ladder that high up. We have a generator, power, and just about every tool known to general contractor.

Suggestions? There has got to be a faster way.

Thanks in advance!

Rent a plasma cutter.

If all you need to cut through is a spot weld get a spot weld cutting bit. Matco and snap on sell them I know. I have the matco set.
They work well in high speed right angle grinders.

110 or 220?

or do this but I'm guessing you don't have 220V on site.

Pneumatic chisel?

Hard to visualize what you are up against, but a spot weld can usually be broken with a cold chisel.

Put a "Roof Panels For Sale" sign out for the Tweakers to see, they'll steal it the 1st night...Buddy got rid of his broken chest freezer 1st night he set it out "for sale"... or try peanut grinder on those welds ...

This makes more sense.

Those are called "puddle welds" and they were part of the roof diagram.
Sounds like those washers were used because the steel decking gauge was too thin to meet whatever uplift calc the engineer had to use.

It's unusual to see washers used like that.
Any pics ?

So these puddle welds are probably in every down flute ?

Without seeing a pic, I would want to destroy the washer and the decking while leaving most of the puddle weld.
Cutting between the beam and decking with a Sawzall sounds brutal.

I would lean more toward a peanut grinder (4-5") or even a 7" with a metal stone to go after the washer/weld.
It would be extremely useful to have a scissor lift, 1.) For the safety of working off of and 2.) To utilize its uplift power to push up on the deck panels after the welds were weakened.

A short 2x4 or 4x4 post from the scissor deck to the roof panel would be how to apply some push to the decking.
A gas powered scissor lift has a big deck and has lots of power compared to a skinny electric scissor, if you have the room and ventilation.

Another useful tool would be an air chisel like you would see in a muffler shop to go after those washers.

Edit:
Not knowing how clean you need to get the beams, a faster method would be to take a peanut grinder with a cut-off disk and simply do a 4-sided cut around the washer/puddle weld. I think that this would be the fastest way to get the decking off, even if you had to come back and touch up the welds.


I swear grinders cause more injuries than anything else so make sure they know what they're doing.
If they hit the work wrong the grinder can walk onto the user.

Edit:
A tool that we use for cutting deck panels during install is what's referred to as a "Hot Saw". This is a chain saw motor fitted with a large circular Carborundum blade.
They are not for the uninitiated, especially on a roof but they make short work of cutting up pan decking.

Every once in a while a tool comes along and I say "Holy Schitt".
Just recently I used a good bunch of these metal-cutting in a Skil Saw.
They look like wood blades from a distance but they sail through steel beams....big schitt.....freakin' amazing.
Got 'em at the Depot and it seems that they were a Makita product.

These would be very good for cutting up the deck panels if necessary for handling.
I have never seen a better metal cutting for a Skil Saw.
They're almost unbelievable. Not cheap, magic costs money.

Tried chisel & hammer. Slow.

Andy,
Simple analysis from what you describe-- The metal deck also works as a shear diaphragm to take lateral wind/seismic loads to the CMU block walls. Be careful so that you don't damage the supporting steel, and the new deck can go back on with the connections designed to perform in the same manner....

I may be the proud owner of a 2000 GMC 3500 bucket truck by next weekend, so that would certainly aid us with leverage at height.

I entirely appreciate the structural well being of beams, which is why I am asking.
Excellent ideas.

Fumes are not an issue as this is entirely outside.

Depending on the welds I wonder if a 4" angle grinder may be the way to go. Hard to tell without seeing what you are up against.

Also the grinder would be the way to clean up the beam after the roofing was gone.

We have multiple "peanut" grinders. We'll gives those a shot as well.

Gas powered scissor lift.
Do your prep work beforehand and rent it for a day.

Jaws of life ?

Grab some metal-cutting stones and a big bunch of cut-off disks (you know, those thin ones)

Be careful with the thin cut off wheels as they don't react well to side pressure.

Roto hammer with a chisel bit? Set so it doesn't rotate, of course.

Doesn't need to be prepped for the next guy, so bumps, etc. can remain. Just have to get the roof off.

I thought about that and I have one...
Bosch Bulldog....gotta have the "switch" (spin, hammer/spin, hammer)
I was going to recommend it earlier, but it doesn't have enough stroke length for this job....works great on concrete though.
An air chisel has a longer stroke and would work much better for steel.


1. Scissor lift
2. Peanut grinder + cutoff disks...cut around welds
3. Aforementioned "magic" Skil Saw blade from Home Depot...fast, general cutting


4. PPE + Fall Protection (FP not needed inside scissor lift)

Without seeing the job, the above gear is my best guess.

It's a puddle weld on tube steel and wide flange beams.
It could be done but it would be tricky with a torch....

If any beam damage occurs the engineer looks at it and if it's deemed serious, a "fix" has to be drawn up.
You then have to apply the "fix" at your cost and ensure that it passes inspection.

They're an industry standard now....we use them by the hundreds.
Any composite blade can come apart.

The thing with these thin cut off disks is to not chip them. If a blade gets chipped you have to change it out.
Let the blade work and never use the side of the blade....only the narrow cutting edge.
They are actually pretty durable.

The only think I can add is +1 on Direct Drives notion to get close to the work. A scissor lift or even rolling scaffolds will help tremendously for the type of work you are doing.

So Hoquiam wants the roof torn off but the beams to remain? Or do they want the whole thing taken down? The CMU walls shouldn't be left free-standing. Thats not safe.

Yep, safety and access.

And then the cheat....use the lift to push up on the panels.
You're not supposed to do it officially.....a large gas rig has a big platform, good power and is very stable.
The skinny electrics that can fit through 3'-0" door openings can be wiggly when you're way up.
Some guys get nervous on those when they're fully extended.
The electrics don't have near the power (to push) of the gas rigs.

The only other way I can see doing this productively is with an industrial fork lift to push up on the panels.
But then your guys have to be totally on the roof or on ladders.
Not as safe.


That's a good point.
Long, high, unbraced CMU walls are sketchy.
We use tilt-up braces on them until the diaphragm is built.

Depends too, on how well the CMU (block walls) is tied to the roof frame.
This is a car wash so there are probably going to be lots of perpendicular/intersecting walls.
That fact should make it pretty stable with the roof off.

I also have the Bosch Bulldog, and a long bit. We'll give that a try, as well as the magic saw blade. Looks like the bank gets to buy a few magix saw blades. The metal is fairly thin.

The City is requiring us to remove the roofing only, not the support structure, because it was peeling back from the south edge. (Simpson) The entire top of the structure is secured by a rectangular steel frame, with "I" beams running length wise, and box beams welded perpendicular to the "I" beams. Removing the roof removes any lift affect from the wind.

We have a person interested in buying the carwash to make it back into a car wash, and they would put a new roof on shortly. Unfortunately, though, the City needs the roof off per an abatement order handed to us once we took over the property. Either way, the roof has to come off.

Thanks for the ideas.

This the blade?

http://www.toolmarts.com/frd_d0748f.html


$40.00

With the Bulldog, take the 1-1/2" chisel bit and sharpen it.
They're meant for concrete and they're kind of dull even when new.

It doesn't sound like you have the correct "Magic Blade". They're as thick as a normal Skil Saw blade and extremely durable.
7-1/4 blade...long service life.
Going to look like this....
http://www.acetoolonline.com/ProductDeta...ite=google_base

Wish I had a part number for you. I think they were a Makita product.
These were easily cutting through large tube steel beams and were cutting metal siding like it was plywood.
Hearing protection is a must with these.

Definitely a goggles and ear protection day. The blade shown cuts through 1/4" steel, steel framing, etc..

Andy,I found the sound track for your demo.

Nice,

My brother had brought that up first thing yesterday.

Nope.
Going to look like this...diamond knock-out for a worm drive.

I wish I wrote that friggin' part number down. <pulling hair out>
They may have come through a contractor's supply house and not The Depot.

If that Diablo blade is rated for 1/4" steel it should do fine with sheet metal.

I wish I had a worm drive "Skill saw" They're sweet.

Yep, Model 77...
The saw that built (and is building) the West.

Go east of the Mississippi and all they use are sidewinders.

I dread bringing my cheap Skill saw out every time.

You can probably find a worm drive for cheap on CL.
$50 probably...light it up before you buy it.
No rumbles (bearings) or no sparks (brushes) and it's good for a long while.

If you're right-handed a worm drive is easier because the blade is where you can see it. The motor is inline so it's not as squirrely as a sidewinder.

Lefties like sidewinders because the blade is on the correct side for them.

All the cool kids have 'em.

Exactly.

Mag77. Lighter, fancier red handles.

Thanks for the assists.

Cute but hate that Mag/Alu table.
Too sticky.

Gimme the steel table.

We needs pics or it didn't happen.

Will do. Pics next weekend.

Why is nobody listening to Mike H?
using a hole-type drill bit will remove the roofing and leave the spot weld to be ground off easily with the roofing out of the way.

It's a good idea....used in auto bodywork, etc.

These aren't garden variety spot welds though....they're puddle welds.
And they aren't normal puddle welds.
They used cut washers for more purchase and they puddled the ID.

Sounds like a pretty good wart.

It's coarse work...I think that the easiest way to get the roofing off is to cut the roofing around the washers.
Peanut grinder and cut-off disk would be my weapon of choice as I understand the site conditions.

Same concept as a spot weld cutter but rougher.

On the re-roof you would try to lay out the panels so the "high flutes" land on the old puddle welds taking them out of play.
From below the old puddle welds would not show.
Gotta cheat every chance you get.

My money is on DD.

I don't know schitt...just finding this stuff on the internet and some guesswork.
Some of it I've seen done from the safety of sidewalk.
Don't bet more than $2.00

I can cover that.

dog, you should buy that yourself. just a thought.

1/2 block, on the one-way from Hoquiam to Aberdeen. Great commercial property, but no, I'm not in the market to hold something that long. If I could get a bunch of Johnny Crosslin moels to "man" the car wash, I might reconsider.

how bout a 55 gallon drum of C4

I don't know what the upkeep is on those car washes, but I do know that it must be real tough for da man to know how many quarters are really run through it.....kinda like a laundromat

You can bet that discharge standards are a lot tougher now than they were when that place was built.
Oil separators, settling tanks, etc. Permits, inspections.
Kids come down from the hills with their mud-covered 4x4's and load the system with mud.
Poor folks dumping household trash.

The self-serve local to me has a full time attendant.

Got it figured out. I'm gonna use my new laser to cut the roofing panels off.

That's old school.
It's the Death Ray now.

It is only 5 feet long, and weighs 250+lbs. Gonna have to be a pretty big frickin' shark to carry that thing around on its head.

Mount it on the Jeep.
Make a good road huntin' rig.
Prolly cook up some dandy backstrap with one well-placed shot.

I definitely see a reality TV thing happening here.

I need my own camera crew.

Don't be stupid, ok ?

I was born in Red Sox country and I'm good for $2.00

There you have it.

knew a girl who said that once......

no, she wasn't.

You paid ?

Hard to lose on a $2 whore.

Buyer's remorse.
I think he picked up some "riders."

How's the tear-off going, DF ?

We start up again Saturday and Sunday. Weekend deal only.

I also get to use my cutting torch, as I have to cut down a few sign posts, light poles, and bollards!

Is this a drive thru or coin operated?

Watch out on the bollard.
If it's concrete-filled you'll get some popping when the heat hits the concrete. Sometimes enough to put out the torch and always enough to get splatter on you.

Coin op.

Thanks for the tip on the splatter. I will have a water/air fire extinguisher in the event that I set myself on fire.

Taking work opportunities away from Dan too?

C'mon, man..............

Where's the love?

If you set yourself on fire, a CAMERA is the proper tool to have at your disposal. Then we can ALL enjoy the fruits of your labor.

I recommend one of the Go-Pros so we can have some video of the flinching that's going to occur when that concrete starts to pop.

Yep, it'll make you flinch worse than a .50 BMG