Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 17 of 21 < 1 2 ... 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#757073 - 05/01/12 07:54 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
You copied/pasted from Wikipedia, but failed to add in all the parts about the criticism of those studies, the poor protocol they used, and then the many others that found exactly the opposite...though, to be fair, I wouldn't have expected anything other than that wink

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757081 - 05/01/12 08:20 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Dood...don't lecture me about "objectivity"...for real.

Journalists do tend to be educated, and educated people do tend to vote Democratic...that's a given.

That, though, doesn't make their reporting biased...watch FauxNews and you'll see right wing talking head after right wing talking head after right wing talking head, with the only "balance" being the Tea Party dingbats that are even farther to the right of them...not to mention sounding just like Ari Fleischer for eight years of Bush.

Watch CNN, for instance, and even if the reporter tends to vote Democratic, you'll see her paneling with people from both sides...and you'll see them and her just as likely to bag on Obama if they don't like what he's saying or doing, whether they are lefties or not.

Same goes with network news, the Sunday news shows, and on NPR.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757089 - 05/01/12 08:39 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Here's the rest of the article you cited, Hank...in case someone may want to read more than just the couple of paragraphs you cherry picked wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States

Self-described as "the first successful attempt at objectively quantifying bias in a range of media outlets and ranking them accordingly,[22] a study by political scientists Tim Groseclose of UCLA and Jeff Milyo of the University of Missouri at Columbia. The study's stated purpose was to document the range of bias among news outlets.[23] The research concluded that of the major 20 news outlets studied "18 scored left of the average U.S. voter, with CBS Evening News, The New York Times and The Los Angeles Times ranking second, third and fourth most liberal behind the news pages of The Wall Street Journal, while only the Fox News "Special Report With Brit Hume" and The Washington Times scored right of the average U.S. voter." The study also identified the Drudge Report as "left of center". In this study, "left" and "liberal" are treated as synonyms, and are identified with think tanks cited by Congressional members of the Democratic Party, while "right" is identified with think tanks cited by Congressional members of the Republican Party. The report also states that the news media show a fair degree of centrism, since all but one of the outlets studied are, from an ideological point of view, between the average Democrat and average Republican in Congress. This may be because organizations perceived to be extremist may have difficulty getting access to news material such as interviews.

The study met with criticism from many outlets, including the Wall Street Journal,[24] and Media Matters.[25] Criticisms included:
Different lengths of time studied per media (CBS News was studied for 12 years while the Wall Street Journal was studied for four months).
Lack of context in quoting sources (sources quoted were automatically assumed to be supporting the article)
Lack of balance in sources (Liberal sources such as the NAACP didn't have conservative or counter sources that could add balance)
Flawed political positions of sources (Sources such as the NRA and RAND corporation were considered "liberal" while sources such as the American Civil Liberties Union were "conservative".)

Mark Liberman, a professor of Computer Science and the Director of Linguistic Data Consortium at the University of Pennsylvania, has argued that there were a number of statistical flaws in this study.[26][27] According to Professor Liberman, the model chosen leads to "very implausible psychological claims, for which no evidence is presented." He argued that "many if not most of the complaints directed against G&M (Groseclose and Milyo) are motivated in part by ideological disagreement – just as much of the praise for their work is motivated by ideological agreement. It would be nice if there were a less politically fraught body of data on which such modeling exercises could be explored."[26]

*************

The NRA is "liberal"? Hell, they're always jabbering away on the news, and every time they are on it gets counted as "liberal bias"? Same with the RAND Corporation? The giant defense contractor/think tank? Really?

Sounds like your "study" might have a "stupid bias".

More?

********************

Conservative bias in the media occurs when conservative ideas have undue influence on the coverage or selection of news stories.

Possible causes of conservative bias include:
Media Concentration: A handful of corporate conglomerates (e.g., (Disney, CBS Corporation, News Corporation, TimeWarner, and General Electric) own the majority of mass media outlets in the United States.[28][Need quotation to verify] Such a uniformity of ownership means that stories which are critical of these corporations are in some cases underplayed in the media.[29][Need quotation to verify]
Capitalist Model: In the United States the media are operated for profit, and are usually funded by advertising. Stories critical of advertisers or their interests may in some cases be underplayed, while stories favorable to advertisers may be given more coverage.[30][Need quotation to verify]
Conservative Media Organizations: Certain conservative media outlets such as NewsMax and WorldNetDaily describe themselves as news organizations, but are generally seen as promoting a conservative agenda.[31][32][33]





Studies done by FAIR argue that the majority of media citations come from conservative and centrist sources.
Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has argued that accusations of liberal media bias are part of a conservative strategy, noting an article in the August 20, 1992 Washington Post, in which Republican party chair Rich Bond compared journalists to referees in a sporting match. "If you watch any great coach, what they try to do is 'work the refs.' Maybe the ref will cut you a little slack next time."[34] A 1998 study from FAIR found that journalists are "mostly centrist in their political orientation";[35] 30% considered themselves to the left on social issues compared to 9% on the right, while 11% considered themselves to the left on economic issues compared to 19% on the right. The report argued that since journalists considered themselves to be centrists, "perhaps this is why an earlier survey found that they tended to vote for Bill Clinton in large numbers." FAIR uses this study to support the claim that media bias is propagated down from the management, and that individual journalists are relatively neutral in their work.

Scholars Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman argue that the logic in some of the conservative arguments are flawed. They argue that comparing the media product to the voting record of the journalists is akin to thinking auto-factory workers design the cars they help produce. Indeed, they argue that the media owners and news makers are the ones with an agenda, and they argue that this agenda is subordinated to corporate interests that they view as often leaning right.[36]

A report "Examining the 'Liberal Media' Claim: Journalists' Views on Politics, Economic Policy and Media Coverage" by David Croteau, from 1998, calls into question the assumption that journalists' views are to the left of center in America. The findings were that journalists were "mostly centrist in their political orientation" and more conservative than the general public on economic issues (with a minority being more progressive than the general public on social issues).[37]

Rupert Murdoch, the CEO of News Corporation (the parent of Fox News), self-identifies as a libertarian. Rupert Murdoch has exerted a strong influence over Fox News.[38][39]

In 2008 George W. Bush's press secretary Scott McClellan published a book in which he confessed to regularly and routinely, but unknowingly, passing on lies to the media, following the instructions of his superiors, lies that the media reported as facts. He characterizes the press as, by and large, honest, and intent on telling the truth, but reports that "the national press corps was probably too deferential to the White House", especially on the subject of the war in Iraq.[40]

E. J. Dionne, Jr., Op Ed columnist for The Washington Post, writes: "For all the talk of a media love affair with Obama, there is a deep and largely unconscious conservative bias in the media's discussion of policy. The range of acceptable opinion runs from the moderate left to the far right and cuts off more vigorous progressive perspectives."[41]

[edit] Cited Allegations

[edit] Fox News

See also: Fox News Channel controversies

According to former Fox News producer Charlie Reina, unlike the AP, CBS, or ABC, Fox News's editorial policy is set from the top down in the form of a daily memo: "frequently, Reina says, it also contains hints, suggestions and directives on how to slant the day's news – invariably, he says, in a way that's consistent with the politics and desires of the Bush administration." [42] Fox News responded by denouncing Reina as a "disgruntled employee" with "an ax to grind."[42][42]

According to the December 18, 2010 issue of The Atlantic, "One alleged news network fed its audience a diet of lies, while contributing financially to the party that benefited from those lies. Those who work for Fox News are not working for a journalistic enterprise. They are working for the communications department of a political party." [43]

[edit] Kenneth Tomlinson and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting

Kenneth Tomlinson, while chairman of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, commissioned a $10,000 government study into Bill Moyers' PBS program, NOW.[44] The results of the study indicated that there was no particular bias on PBS. Mr. Tomlinson chose to reject the results of the study, subsequently reducing time and funding for NOW with Bill Moyers, which many including Tomlinson regarded as a "left-wing" program, and then expanded a show hosted by Fox News correspondent Tucker Carlson. Some board members stated that his actions were politically motivated.[45] Himself a frequent target of claims of bias (in this case, conservative bias), Tomlinson resigned from the CPB board on November 4, 2005. Regarding the claims of a left-wing bias, Bill Moyers asserted in a Broadcast & Cable interview that "If reporting on what's happening to ordinary people thrown overboard by circumstances beyond their control and betrayed by Washington officials is liberalism, I stand convicted."[46]

[edit] Authors

Several authors have written books on conservative bias in the media, including:
Eric Alterman wrote What Liberal Media? The Truth About Bias and the News, (2003) in which he disputes the belief in liberal media bias, and suggests that over-correcting for this belief resulted in conservative media bias.[47]
Al Franken wrote Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, (2003), in which he argues that mainstream media organizations have neither a liberal nor a conservative political bias, but there exists a right-wing media that seeks to promote conservative ideology rather than report the news.[48]
Jim Hightower in There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos (1997; ISBN 0-06-092949-9) uses humor to deflate claims of liberal bias, and gives examples of how media support corporate interests.
David Brock wrote The Republican Noise Machine (2004).
Amy Goodman wrote Standing up to the Madness: Ordinary Heroes in Extraordinary Times.
Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky wrote Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media (1988, 2002).
Robert W. McChesney and John Nichols (journalist) wrote Our Media, Not Theirs: The Democratic Struggle Against Corporate Media (2002).
Michael Parenti wrote Inventing Reality: the Politics of News Media (1993).

*******************
Just a little more to "fair and balance" your little piece of the article wink

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757091 - 05/01/12 08:42 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: Todd]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I didn't mention MSNBC at all...you did...in the usual "yeah, but look what__________does!"...fill in the blank with whatever you can to make it look like your team's failings are the same as everyone else's.

MSNBC is full of spin...but not full of people in the "newsroom" literally making up facts, like FauxNews does...including FauxNews constantly reporting on the made up facts that "the mainstream media" is the enemy (when they report on the same stories, only using facts), and that there is a "liberal media bias"...

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757093 - 05/01/12 08:49 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Hankster
MSNBC gets their made-up "facts" straight from the head office and it's not spin, it's lies.


Who told you that...Bill O'Reilly?

Again, it doesn't matter...I didn't even bring up MSNBC, you did in order to say that they're just like FauxNews, which they are most decidely not...and having nothing to do with your two paragraphs copied from a long article on media bias.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757100 - 05/01/12 09:05 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
The problem is that I know that MSNBC is full of spin, and don't watch it to get my "news" or "facts"...and far less people do than watch Fox for that exact same thing...news and facts.

Hear about the "left wing media bias"? You probably heard about it from one of a very few sources, all of which are pathological liars...look at all the studies, including the *one* you cited (which has been discredited, by the way)...but that doesn't stop Fox, or right wingers in general, of just accepting it as the truth.

Why would they accept it blindly? Do they believe it when they see it on Fox? Do they want it to be true so badly that they won't bother checking to see if it's real? Do they hear it enough on all the right wing tv and radio they listen to that it's just been hammered into their brains, a la Bush "jettisoning the propoganda" (by repeating lies so many times that they get ingrained)?

There is no liberal media bias...period.

Any objective look at it has said so, and often finds, in fact, that when you combine the right wing talking heads (with no balance) to the left wing talking heads (who most often offer up differing and opposing positions), there is actually a right wing media bias.

Don't like it?

Sorry.

Call Hannity and complain...I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you something you want to hear, even if it's not true.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757102 - 05/01/12 09:12 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: Todd]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 781
Look, maybe Zimmerman did follow Trayvon to ensure he wasn't breaking into a house or something BUT he lost him as the 911 tape explains. So where did Trayvon go? To eat his skittles, or make a devious plan to lose Zimmerman and beat the crap out of him when he wasn't looking resulting in a broken nose and bloodied head.


Edited by Salman (05/01/12 09:12 PM)
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

Top
#757113 - 05/01/12 09:43 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: Salman]
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13474
Hey Hank,

I agree that MSM is biased toward the left. The explanation is pretty simple. Along with Todd's mention that journalists tend to be educated and educated folks in general lean left, the other important consideration is that the center of the Republican party used to be about where the conservative side of the Dems are these days. The Dems have moved slightly more left, and the Rs have moved way further to the right, ergo the complete lack of environmental values, significant reduction of social values, and the tendency to rah rah the "have mores" to the exclusion of middle class values. In order for MSM to be balanced, they'd have to adopt some loony planks to the platform, as it were.

Sg

Top
#757121 - 05/01/12 10:07 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: Salmo g.]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Todd........
Quote:
There is no liberal media bias...period.



THAT belongs in your sig line, Todd!
It's you in a nutshell.

If you don't use it, I will.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#757130 - 05/01/12 10:29 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: Salmo g.]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
With the co-opting of the Republican Party by the TeaParty lunatics (and other assorted lunatics), anything left of Atilla the Hun is going to be "biased to the left"...to the left of the Republicans, at least.

Thinking Republicans were lamenting the loss of their party long ago when their party of choice abandoned any pretense of fiscal responsibility...now they've been overrun by social fruitcakes that make Sanitorium seem like a viable leader.

Scary.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757138 - 05/01/12 10:40 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: Todd]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
You are truly dillusional. Fiscal Responsibility and Democrat doesn't exactly ring any bells, Bucko.....How is our State of affairs? Republican influenced? yea? nay?
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#757140 - 05/01/12 10:42 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: Todd]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
The "liberal media bias" is accepted as gospel by those on the right with little or no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Every reporter has biases...no matter what their political stripe...but most tend to be fair and balanced, anyway, to borrow a phrase.

"Liberal Media Bias" has just been said...ad nauseum by those on the right...that even without any factual basis behind it, it is just accepted because they want to believe it, and they've heard it forever.

Slabby, you can have the sig line...or, better yet, use the five minutes it would take to change it to go out and find the actual evidence of the famed "liberal media bias"...but I'll let you know in advance, you will mostly find Hank's discredited "study", and a whole bunch of studies and papers showing that it doesn't actually exist.

Yeah, the studies are done by, ya know, educated people and stuff, professors and other "liberal elitists"...(that's me giving you your out when you can't find any actual liberal bias beyond right wingers assuring you that it exists).

Another consideration is find out what percentage of the electorate overall listens to Fox, Rush, Beck, etc....not only is it the great majority of right wing voters, but they have a stranglehold on it...and their viewers/listeners actually believe they are hearing the truth from those garbage mongers.

Not only is there no "liberal media bias" to speak of, there is also no overarching left wing pretend facts talking points memo that controls what all the liberal reporters say...those right wing talking heads, besides being full of schit and believed wholeheartedly, have some sort of a group hallucination with the truth, whereby they all have the same short list of almost word for word lies that they tell, which in turn are parroted by their true-believing listeners and viewers.

One only need to look at political websites, or the retarded right wing email chain stuff that is copied over onto websites, or posted day and night on facebook...it's almost like the readership is trying to convince itself, too, by sharing the patently false ideas with the world.

Today's new one was getting half a dozen facebook postings of a picture of a little kid in a straw hat, with the caption that "Obama wants kids to stop doing chores!"...when actually it was about a Dept. of Labor proposed regulation, that Obama didn't write, that wasn't enacted, that would have prohibited children from working on farms...as jobs, that is, not from working on family farms, or "doing chores", but preventing children from being hired out to do farm work.

Wrong? Mostly. Misleading? Totally. An accident? Not in the least.

Why do it then?

Not surprisingly, there was a lot of chatter on Fox, and from Rush, purposely saying the same untruth last week...and now it's packaged up in cute little pictures and making the email and facebook rounds right now.

And...the right wingers who get it in their mailbox not only believe it, but send it on to everyone else, adding their own little bit of outrage and the injustice of it all...even though it wasn't even true to begin with.

Fair and Balanced?

You decide.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757146 - 05/01/12 10:49 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Excellent analysis.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757152 - 05/01/12 11:00 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I just like to use logic and facts...they take a bit longer to explain wink

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757156 - 05/01/12 11:06 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: Todd]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Your arguments are much stronger when you don't make totalitarian comments. Just sayin.

You have points I can agree with, i.e., not all reporters do their job with obvious bias. Both sides have writers that are blatantly bias, however......and it is likely that those are the ones who draw the most attention. The crisis cry sells and media that doesn't sell, doesn't exist long.
I'm sure (without counting) that I personally have not watched Fox news more than a dozen times total. I did observe some ridiculous crap aired on Fox.....ridiculous. Whether or not that is it's norm, I can't tell you, but it turned me off.
My view of left leaning news channels (all of our local ones) is one acquired by observation. It is not consistently evident to me, but there are times when it is glaring.
I've been around a few blocks and have kids older than you, so I'm quite sure I can think for myself. I'll bet most all of us can.
And I will use your quote.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#757269 - 05/02/12 01:40 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13474
[/quote]So anybody who is educated and writes for conservative publications is a RWWJ? [/quote]

No Hank, I don't. While not on my regular reading list, William F. Buckley of the National Review is an educated conservative writer I've long admired, even when I don't agree with him. This pre-dates 1996 by quite a bit; not sure what you intended to reference there.

A good article I started was titled, "What would WF Buckley think of today's GOP?"

Sg

Top
#757277 - 05/02/12 02:03 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Hey Hank,

I agree that MSM is biased toward the left. The explanation is pretty simple. Along with Todd's mention that journalists tend to be educated and educated folks in general lean left

Sg


So anybody who is educated and writes for conservative publications is a RWWJ?


Seems to me if you are a RWWJ then you really can't call yourself educated.
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

Top
#757309 - 05/02/12 03:01 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I'm guessing that no one brought up "suicide by watch captain" because in a 29 page thread full of retardation, it would have been the most stupid thing to say yet.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757313 - 05/02/12 03:04 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Mostly.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#757320 - 05/02/12 03:16 PM Re: Florida shooting [Re: ]
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Todd, I think you're the occupier of around 40% of this thread. Is that that the amount of space that isn't "retardation"?


Who are you to question what a mod can or cannot do?
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

Top
Page 17 of 21 < 1 2 ... 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 >

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
Hatch, RM20, ty1over
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
1 registered (steely slammer), 1120 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
NoyesMaker, John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt
11499 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 27838
Dan S. 16958
Sol Duc 15727
The Moderator 13942
Salmo g. 13474
eyeFISH 12616
STRIKE ZONE 11969
Dogfish 10878
ParaLeaks 10363
Jerry Garcia 9013
Forum Stats
11499 Members
17 Forums
72926 Topics
824948 Posts

Max Online: 3937 @ 07/19/24 03:28 AM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |