Was wondering if anybody was familar with the bald mountain area, area 346 for deer hunting. I'm thinking about putting in for some special permits for that area, any buck permit. Any info would be appreciated.

Save your points for somewhere else. There ain't no friggin deer,or elk for that matter over there. Just a couple of radio collared wolves the state transplanted last year.

So do you have any unit Idea's HBP. If there's no deer I don't want to go there.

Put in for umtanum or desert. There are some big bucks in those units.

The big bucks are hard to come by in the areas that you mention you might try something near spokane or up in the okanogan country.

The Umtanum unit is open for the general deer season this year.

Thought of another thing...what permit are you talking about for unit 346? It is open for deer in the general season anyway, 3 point minimum like all of eastern Wa. I don't know of any special permits for 346. Maybe you are thinking of the any bull permit for elk?

Yeah right. No way will they open that unit up for the general season. Even if they did you wouldn't know until May. Don't try blowing smoke up our @$$. Nice try though.

Hey Glowball,
Have you looked at the proposed deer seasons? I downloaded the file last night cause I thought he was nuts,but GMU 342 looks to be open for Mulies with a 3pt. minimum. It looks to have only three closed units in E.Wa. this year. You may owe Mr. Ape an apology.

If they open that unit up for the general season I will do just that. I'm fairly confident it won't happen though. That would be something if they did. Everyone in the state would be in there.

You are right they are proposing that in this years season. I don't understand why though. Looks like you wouldn't even get a chance to hunt that unit with a bow if they get there way. Like it says that is a proposal, we won't know what they will do for sure until May when the regs come out.
Geez I might be rifle hunting deer next year.

Can you confirm that the state has put wolves with collars. Please lead me to a link where it states this.

Thank You

I don't know of a link to give you,but we got the info from a guy we met while deer hunting this year. They were hunting elk in the early ML season,and we camped next to them. We saw the wolves three days in a row,all three times they were fitted with the big tracking collars. We told the guys that were elk hunting,and one had just retired from the group responsible for getting the program going. I couldn't believe my eyes when one of the wolves ran across the road not 20yds in front of us. I stopped the truck and looked real closely with my bino's,and sure enough it was all wolf. I'll have to look around the web and try to find some info.

I was there with HBP and I also seen the wolves on two differnt trips out of camp in the morning. So I know they are there.

Glowballs, so now who is blowing smoke up who's ass? You are right though, that is only the proposed seasons, but you can bet if that's what is proposed then that is what is going to happen. The only way it wouldn't is if they got a lot of complaints from the public, and you know that won't happen. Personally, I think it should remain a permit-only unit. If they think it can take more pressure, then double the number of permits. But don't open it up for everybody. That's one unit I will avoid this year...it'll be a zoo. I expect most of the mulies will be wiped out, just like they were before. As far as wolves go, they've been around for a long time. My brother and I saw three wolves north of Leavenworth about 15 years ago.

The thing is I can't stand smoke. Guess I better quit. Seriously I don't think that the general hunt will be all that good. Most of the quality deer don't show up until November(or whenever the snow sends them down) I'm not saying there aren't a handful of locals that hang out all year, but I believe a majority follow the does down in winter.
Guess we'll see what happens.

So was that guy that you mentioned that just retired from the group that was the responsible for getting this program going.

Was that the State of Washington? Would like more info.

Here is an article for ya, sounds like maybe you should report what you saw. Sounds like the guy that just retired from this organization that introduced the wolves you saw was doing this out of compliance.
You should report your story to the authorities.

The other article is a confirmation of a wolf in washington.
========================
Wolf return sought in state
Matthew Daly
The Associated Press
October 31, 2002


WASHINGTON - Two conservation groups are calling on the federal government to restore gray wolves to Washington state, saying it's time to "hear the call of the wild again" on the Olympic Peninsula, in the Cascade Mountains and in the Blue Mountains of southeastern Washington.
Defenders of Wildlife and the Northwest Ecosystem Alliance said Wednesday that they have sent a petition to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, requesting that the agency restore and protect gray wolves under the Endangered Species Act.


"Gray wolves have an important role to play in the ecological health and character of the Pacific Northwest, and the federal government should start getting serious about restoring the species here," said Rodger Schlickeisen, president of Defenders of Wildlife. "It's time to hear the call of the wild again in these beautiful forests."


The petition urges the service to establish a category known as a distinct population segment for gray wolves in Washington state.


"The wolf and the Pacific Northwest co-evolved. It is as much a thread in the fabric of our ecosystems as the salmon and the grizzly. We must seek to recover wolves wherever suitable habitat exists for the sake of the species and these ecosystems," said Joe Scott, conservation director of the Northwest Ecosystem Alliance.


Joan Jewett, a spokeswoman for the Fish and Wildlife Service in Portland, said Wednesday that she had not seen the petition, but that the agency would review it upon receipt.


"Any sort of petition like this requires a formal review process, and that takes some time," she said.


The gray wolf is listed as endangered in all lower 48 states except Minnesota, where it is listed as threatened. The species has been successfully reintroduced in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming. The Mexican wolf has been reintroduced in the southwestern United States near the Mexican border.


Two years ago, Defenders of Wildlife petitioned federal officials to restore the gray wolf to the Southern Rockies, and petitioned in April 2001 for restoration in California. Those petitions are pending.


Officials at the Fish and Wildlife Service believe the gray wolf has met the necessary three-year population targets that will allow the agency to consider a petition to change its classification from endangered to threatened as soon as next year. Such an action would remove many protections now in place.


About 260 gray wolves are believed to be living in Idaho, while Wyoming has about 218 wolves and Montana 85.

=======================
WOLF CONFIRMED IN WASHINGTON STATE
Environment News Service
February 11, 2002


BOISE, Idaho - An endangered gray wolf has crossed into Washington state from Idaho, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) says.
USFWS wolf biologist Tom Meier says a black wolf tagged Y206 was located during a routine monitoring flight on February 6, 10 miles west of Priest Lake inside the Washington state border. The wolf is the first to appear in the state in 70 years.

"We followed her signal out to the Priest Lake area in Idaho and then just kept following it west into Washington," Meier said.

The conservation group Defenders of Wildlife has pledged to use The Bailey Wildlife Foundation Wolf Compensation Trust to repay ranchers for wolf depredations of livestock if they occur in Washington.

"This is great news for wolves and wildlife supporters, and a positive development for the entire Northwest," said Rodger Schlickeisen, president of Defenders of Wildlife. "Wolves deserve the chance to reestablish themselves in areas of prime historic habitat, and Defenders stands ready to help smooth the way for this important species with its compensation and proactive programs."

Y206 is the alpha female of the Gravelly pack and biologists believe she may be seeking a mate in the new area where they suspect, but have not documented, the presence of other recolonizing wolves. Her radio collar is new and expected to last four years, giving biologists a long time to monitor her activity.

She was scavenging the carcass of a dead moose when she was seen from the air.

"Hopefully, she will find a suitable partner and reestablish the first pack of wolves in Washington state since they were eradicated over 70 years ago," Suzanne Laverty, northwest representative for Defenders of Wildlife. "We've been hoping for this day to come soon. There is plentiful habitat in this part of Washington state and very few livestock to cause any real conflicts. It's perfect for wolves."

On December 19, this alpha female, her six pups and one yearling son were relocated to the Yaak River drainage in Northwestern Montana after being in captivity since June 2001. The pack was held to allow the pups to reach an age where they could survive on their own after the death of the pack's alpha male.

Now at 80 percent of their adult size, the 10 month old pups appear to be faring well in their new territory, though biologists are still monitoring them. One pup has traveled to British Columbia, about 15 miles beyond the U.S.-Canadian border.

The Bailey Wildlife Foundation Wolf Compensation Trust has helped promote acceptance of reintroduced wolves or those returning to their historic range. Through this fund, Defenders of Wildlife has paid over $208,000 since 1987 to ranchers to reimburse them for wolf caused livestock losses, in order to help create an atmosphere of greater tolerance with local residents where wolves have been re-established.

DB,
I can't remember the guys name,For some reason I think it was Ralph? He lives out in the boonies above Spokane,and is into the rendevous and that sort of thing. The guys were sleeping in tee-pee's and dressed as mountain men. He had worked for the state for 20 plus years. He was upset about the general deer opener,fearing that the wolves would be shot by guys thinking they were coyotes.

That's about all I can remember. My dad was interested in buying a tee-pee from him,and he may still have his name written down.

I'm all for the re-introduction of wolves to Wa. My dad and I saw a wolf on a fishing trip to B.C. a couple years back,and we both thought it would be our first and last sighting of a wolf in the wild. I was stoked when we saw it,we saw an animal most people will NEVER have a chance to see,outside of a zoo. Now to have seen more of them in our state is awesome. I'm probably in the minority,as to my feelings about wolves,most people don't want them back. They were here long before we were and deserve be back.

I don't know where they get their information. Like I said before, wolves have been in the North Cascades for at least 15 years.

and do you have evidence to back that up?

I to have heard those stories of wolves up here in Whatcom county. Still never have read a report or seesn any document.
There have even been big-foot reports up here too or was that you running around the woods chasing the wolves.

After all, your a hairy ape.

It's possible, but a lot of people see coyotes and swear they're wolves. I once heard a guy claim that there were wolves living near his house on the Tulalip reservation.

I have never heard of the state putting radio collar's on coyote's, they are more of a nuisace then anything. I dont know if it was some sort of a state of washington secret mission, but I seen the animals with my own two eye's so I know they are there. It would not be the first time the state has done something without alerting the public.

If you are so adiment that is what you saw and the retired guy that was involved with it and you may have his phone number because of a teepee you were interested in. Do us all a favor and call the State Patrol and turn in this illegal activity

Drift Boat, no I don't have evidence. How would I have evidence unless I had shot one, which is what I almost did until I realized they weren't coyotes. I had one in the sights of my 357 Mag at about 50 yards for a couple of minutes, but decided I would rather not go to jail for killing an endangered species. My brother and I still didn't know for sure what they were. We just knew they weren't coyotes. Then a mile or two farther up the forest service road, we come to a trailhead and there's a sign posted there telling people of the presence of wolves in the area. That's when we knew for sure what we had seen. Tell me, why would they post that information about wolves at that trailhead if wolves did not exist in the area?

DB,
What in the hell are you talking about? his illegal activity? You wanna fill me in. I don't care if anybody believes what I saw,I know the difference between a coyote and a wolf.If I had seen them at 3-400yds I can see maybe confusing the two.They ran across the road 20yds ahead of my truck. A big coyote MIGHT weigh 30lbs,these animals were bigger than my lab,she weighs almost 90. They weighed 110-115 if they weighed and oz.

The illegal activity I am refering to is the fact that these individuals are illegally transplanting animals.

DB,
How do you know they're transplanting these wolves? If they are how, do you know they don't have permission? Hell...I don't even know if these guys were telling us the truth? All the guy said was,that he had just retired from the state of Wa,and he was in the transplant program. He didn't say he was personally responsible for releasing them.

It doesn't look like you're in favor of re-introducing wolves to Wa state. Are you afraid of the big,bad wolf?

Since its apparent you didnt read the article I posted, I went ahead and cut out some key parts for you to review. Will you also take note of the date it was published, do the math and hopefully you will figure out on your own that your camp buddies were circumventing the ESA approval process and doing some kind of reintruduction on there own.
If this is the case, one could only speculate that they were compensated to do this illegal activity by one of the Animal Rights group that wants reintroduction...

Sure glad you know that your in agreeance with this reintroduction. Maybe you should send those animal rights groups some money, because they will meet some overwelming resistance when they attempt to "officially" bring wolves to Washington.

If all your claims are true about what you witnessed,and keep in mind this is a Federal program, so this is most likely a federal crime and IMO you should report it so and not withold back.

Make the RIGHT choice and turn them in! or ya in kahoots whith them?
I will pass this thread along for review and see if there is in validity, but dont seem surprised if ya get a call

What are you a wannabe gamewarden. If they don't want to tell someone they seen a wolf that the game department already knows is there so be it. Did you miss the part about the sign stating that wolves are in the area. Hmmmm I wonder who put that sign up. Sure as heck wasn't someone doing illegal transplanting. You would probably call the cops if your mom didn't stop at a stop sign wouldn't you.
Maybe we need to mellow out a bit.

DB,
Why wouldn't you be in favor of re-introduction? Are you afraid the wolves are gonna eat all "your" deer and elk? Are they gonna come down out of the hills and eat your kids? Do you have a single good reason to not be in favor of re-introduction?

Like I said I don't know these guys anymore than you do.They were in the spot we usually camp at so we camped next to them for a couple days. Again I'll say it,they could have been feeding us a line of B.S...I don't know.

I don't support any animal rights groups,but that's not to say they might do the right thing sometimes. I'm not going to send them any money,but I'd support this effort in a heartbeat. If wolves were native to a specific region,they absolutely,positively have a right to be there. I'm an avid hunter,and it's rather selfish to think that wolves shoudn't have a place in the ecosystem.

It's obvious you don't agree with the re-introduction of wolves. Now you think I'm in Kahoots with these guys. The only reason it would be a big fight to transplant wolves in this state,is because of close-minded individuals like you. All you can think of is how it's gonna impact you.

On another note, what's your opinion of bonking wild steelhead? I hope it's a catch and kill mentality,otherwise we may have a double standard on our hands.

Well, Well, Well,, seems that some panties are all knoted up!
Where to start?

GB,

First the sign, big deal! anyone could put that there. For what reason I have no idea, nor do I care, but if they want to notify everybody they are breaking the law more power to the Dumbass!
The fact remains this ia an
"Illegal Re-Introduction" plain and simple! Thats also called breaking the law!

You want to lable me a 'Wannabe" feel free to do what you please. The fact is, and lets please stick to them! he witnessed and spoke to somebody that stated they re-introduced these three wolves into this area and going from the above articles, circumvented any permit processing to legally do this.

HBP,

Please lets stick to the facts also,
WTF, does my C/R practices have to do with your apparent endorsement of these radical animal rights groups.

Lets get a couple of things straight, OK!

You know that wolf re-introduction just cant be willy nilly done, right? There is a process to follow, right?
You know that people or organizations that decide to not follow the process are acting illegally, right?
You spoke to these individuals for multiple days, you saw there vehicles, you even stated that you may have their phone nyumbers, even an idea what part of the state they reside, right?
Now that you know all of this and you NOW know they are breaking the law, dont you feel that you should make proper notification of the illegal act you witnessed?

I really think the WDFW wouldnt do something as stupid as this, especially after the Lynx fiasco last year. So rule them out! But do radical Animal Rights groups act outside the law? answer, Oh YES! So knowing that, one would have to maybe make an assumption your camp neighbors were working with an A/R organization.
So that is how I come to association that you are in kahoots with them and thus your apparent endorsement of illegal re-introduction of wildlife.

Let me ask you this, when you took your hunter safety course did they not mention, when you witness an illegal act you should make proper notification?

"Close Minded individuals Like You"
Bawahaha!

Dude, just follow the law!

OH-BOY, this is getting good!!!!!!!!

HBP-

GLOWBALL-

DRIFTBOATER-

DB,
O.K.....which one of these groups are responsible,the WDFW or the Animal rights activists? You've made mention it would only be the radicals,then in your next statement you say it could be the WDFW,which one is it?

I agree...the WDFW would do something this stupid!

I forgot to mention one important fact,I NEVER saw them release any wolves,you seem to think I did.

WTF do you think I ment when I said we may have a double standard here? You didn't answer the question,cause you know where I was going with it. Your deadset against wolves in our state,but I'll bet your all for making sure their are planty of native steelhead around. Why? Because they are native to the state and you think they should be here. Same goes for the wolves.

Your right,when I took hunter safety,they made mention of witnessing a violation,and to report it. I DIDN'T WITNESS A VIOLATION!

Good job there! You found a typo, I corrected it to "Wouldn't". If you read the content you would have seen that it was meant to be wouldnt.

I am glad you finally agreed that doing something like this (Illegal Re-introduction) is stupid! You show promise there young-un! Now do the right thing!

Bri,,,Is that all ya got? please bring something more than that!

Yea Bri, where here argueing all night,and that'a all ya got.

Thats not low down there HBP, going back on a post and adding questions making it look like I am trying to elude them,,

I would be more than happy to answer them if that was the topic at hand but its not!

Your accusing me of all sorts of stuff, dont really know what your trying to do.
All I am saying is that you stated you saw wolves in the wild with collars on them, spoke to an individual that stated he was involved with it and also you now know its illegal.
You stated details about this individual. Ph #, Name, residence, specific activities, etc. etc.

So if you do not want to do the right thing and report what you witnessed, thats your decision but it goes against what you stated here a few months ago. You made this statement on 1-28-03 have you changed your mind?

member when you said that HBP? I really like the part where you said Ignore, kinda ironic isnt it?

Sorry,but I didn't add any questions to any of my previous posts. The post where I asked you about C&R is up here twice now,where do you see that I edited the post?

IF I HAD WITNESSED ANYTHING ILLEGAL I WOULD REPORT IT. IF I HAD WITNESSED ANYTHING ILLEGAL I WOULD REPORT IT. IF I HAD WITNESSED ANYTHING ILLEGAL I WOULD REPORT IT.

How many times must I explain this too you?

This guy had no tracking equipment,or any cages. NO EVIDENCE OF ANY ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. If your claims of illegal re-introduction are true,why would they hang around after they released the wolves?

Your 915pm post, you added comments..

I am done with this.

You're right , my 9:15 post does have added comments. Take a look at my 7:58 post,where I asked the question,no edit's there.

You have nothing to substantiate your claim of illegal re-introduction,except for some old geezer that claims to be part of some special wolf project supervised by the state. I can claim to be the president of the U.S., it doesn't mean that I am.

Oh yea, you still haven't answered my question.

You wanna start a topic on that matter, maybe I will give my views then. That has nothing to do with what was being disscussed.
I will stay on topic and not ask views in regards to other topics.

BTW, I did respond to your question from you 758pm post, It apparently was not what you liked to hear.


from your revised post. May I add your putting word in my mouth! Show me a statement I made to that tune.
Your to easy, just like a little puppet on a string!

Good Day! (yea, I revised this post, but it was done before you replied, not after, big difference)

I thought you were done with this?
And you think I'm like a puppet on a string.

the topic here is gmu 346, you guys aren't discussing anything that has anything to do with that. you've been off topic all along

Now the hairy ape wants some. :p

HBP don't you have anything better to do then argue with these guy's. See you thursday morning buddy.