#769376 - 06/29/1212:47 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: Dogfish]
Dan S.
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Originally Posted By: grizz
.....so we should kill all the old sick people and use the savings to provide free care for the younger folks?
Yeah................that's what he said.
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#769387 - 06/29/1201:09 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: stlhead]
Jerry Garcia
Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
Originally Posted By: stlhead
Originally Posted By: Lead Bouncer
Originally Posted By: stlhead
So what's different pre healthcare mandate versus post healthcare mandate? Nothing. Corp America will continue to do what they were already doing. Destroying the middle class.
The middle class is the one doing the shopping. Remember, you hate walmart, even though thats where the little folks shop to make ends meet.
The biggest difference is that the youngest adults dont want to pay for it. Those with degrees and a good salary will get a benefits package, but not as good as a govt employee. (at least for now) The money from healthcare premiums will come right out of the wages they would have been paid in lieu of that expense. Since more people will be paying more for people who cannot pay, its the working folks who absorb that increase in costs.
The total burden cost of an employee cannot go up without raising prices or reducing expenses somewhere else. Like it or not, the CEO is not going to work for free. Since business is not growing, new employees are not needed bad enough to endure increased expenses. The value of everything is based on the lowest employee cost, which is minimum wage. Thats what the unions use to figure their contracts and cost of living adjustments. Management looks down at those wages and has to pay more for managers, (although first level supervisors are often close to union scale) I knew car a salesmen that made more than the desk managers and F & I "managers", so he would not take a promotion. For the most part, a promotion comes with an increase in salary. Even at Ben and Jerrys. "Newmans own" is a nonprofit. Id bet money the CEO/Director, makes more than anyone else.
When you can do what the average CEO does and do it as well, then you too, can demand more money than anyone else. They get fired when they dont get it done.
Someone needs do a reality check. As I said before...Corps are sitting on more cash than ever before. CEO's are making more money than ever before. The disparity between the rich and the poor, the rich and the middle class, is wider than it's ever been. Yet "they" want more. "they" want you picking up even more of the tab because the disparity needs to be even greater. It's about time we the people start (demanding) mandating against this greed. BTW...the average CEO is merely a grossly over paid figure head. Total failure means employees lose their jobs not the CEO. And if or when the CEO does get hit getting fired makes them even richer unlike you and I.
The same people that like big government seem to think that becase corporations are sitting on large reserves that the corps should hire people. The only reason for a company to hire is if they can't meet the demand for their goods or services not beacause they have a large reserve.
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#769389 - 06/29/1201:15 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: Jerry Garcia]
Todd
Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
The same people that like big government seem to think that becase corporations are sitting on large reserves that the corps should hire people. The only reason for a company to hire is if they can't meet the demand for their goods or services not beacause they have a large reserve.
Which is why you need customers with money in their pockets, also known as a "strong middle class", not tax breaks for the rich so that they will hire people...it's the biggest lie that the right wing tells, daily, and is usually eaten up by those who have no idea about economics here.
The only "supply and demand" going on in right wing economics is "Here's a gigantic campaign contribution, now I demand my tax break, and you're going to supply it"...
#769391 - 06/29/1201:19 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: Todd]
Todd
Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
The mythical "Job Creators" that need less regulations and more tax breaks don't create any jobs...demand for their products by people who have money to buy their products creates jobs...and it's always been that way, and it's the only way it's ever worked, in spite of what big corporations, their paid for hacks in Congress, their talking head tools on FauxNews, and their sycophants here and elsewhere will tell you.
Job creators...what a joke.
Then when they milk the populace and put more of our public money into their private pockets, and there's even less demand for their products, they will yell and scream for more tax breaks...so they can "create" mythical jobs...again.
As usual, not surprised that the politicians they own continue to spread this lie, and not surprised that their very own "news" station spreads it even farther...the surprising part is the millions of Americans who believe the lie and go out of their way to defend it.
#769393 - 06/29/1201:28 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: Todd]
Todd
Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
In spite of the expected, and incessant whining from the tools here on this site, this isn't really that hard to understand...and if it weren't Obama who proposed and passed it, it would be a no brainer.
"Our experience also demonstrates that getting every citizen insured doesn't have to break the bank. First, we established incentives for those who were uninsured to buy insurance. Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages "free riders" to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others. This doesn't cos...t the government a single dollar. Second, we helped pay for our new program by ending an old one — something government should do more often. The federal government sends an estimated $42 billion to hospitals that care for the poor: Use those funds instead to help the poor buy private insurance, as we did"
#769394 - 06/29/1201:33 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: Todd]
Todd
Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
P.S. The biggest challenge for the Republicans right now will be to maintain the lies about the AHCA, and to blame it all on Obama being a Nigerian Socialist Kenyan Marxist Muslim, in time to win in November, but before everyone else realizes how fullofshit they are.
#769404 - 06/29/1201:51 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: ]
Todd
Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
But Mitt Romney says not only that it will work, but that the Federal Government should enact it...especially the mandate.
Now he'll "repeal on his first day in office"...to get your vote he'd tell you anything, and you tools will believe it...so long as Obama's not saying it.
If Obama came out and said he changed his mind on health care and he'll work to repeal it himself, you'd have the hacks in Congress telling you how bad that would be, you'd have the tools on FauxNews telling you how Obama just ruined the economy again, and you'd have the sycophants here playing that Romney clip over and over again, and Romney, of course, vowing to not only keep the AHCA, but to make it even more extensive and stronger...on his first day in office.
But Mitt Romney says not only that it will work, but that the Federal Government should enact it...especially the mandate.
Now he'll "repeal on his first day in office"...to get your vote he'd tell you anything, and you tools will believe it...so long as Obama's not saying it.
If Obama came out and said he changed his mind on health care and he'll work to repeal it himself, you'd have the hacks in Congress telling you how bad that would be, you'd have the tools on FauxNews telling you how Obama just ruined the economy again, and you'd have the sycophants here playing that Romney clip over and over again, and Romney, of course, vowing to not only keep the AHCA, but to make it even more extensive and stronger...on his first day in office.
Fish on...
Todd
Forget the rest of the details and just use this one.
The majority of the citizens of Massachusetts wanted “Romneycare.”
The majority of American citizens did NOT want“Obamacare.”
Do you really think if the reverse were true in Mass. that he would have pursued it? Come on. There is no "mystical' flip flop....the people of his state wanted Romney care. It was a bipartisan effort by the way...everyone pretty much agreed.
There is no comparing the two based on the acceptance by recipients. Obama used it as a template to try to impose European type medical coverage on everyone.....which the majority does not want. Key word in this argument is acceptance.
#769429 - 06/29/1203:02 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: Wacenturion]
stlhead
River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
Market is still climbing even though businesses are going to fold and unemployment is going to skyrocket because of Obamacare. Must be day traders who don't have to factor in doomsday 2014.
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#769435 - 06/29/1203:51 PMRe: Healthcare upheld by SCOTUS
[Re: Todd]
Dogfish
Poodle Smolt
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
Originally Posted By: Todd
The only "supply and demand" going on in right wing economics is "Here's a gigantic campaign contribution, now I demand my tax break, and you're going to supply it"...
Kind of like Gregoire and the Tribes?
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1. That the greatest nation in the world can't develop a plan that ensures all of it's citizens have access to health care; that it doesn't see it as a moral imperative, but rather a partisan political issue.
You are spot on about this!
Fishy
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The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.
I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S
We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!
Obama used it as a template to try to impose European type medical coverage on everyone.....which the majority does not want.
This is nonsense. There were much better ideas ie singlepayer, public option on the table at the start. After months of battle with the repubs crying "socialism" & "death panels", this is what we get. All involved, including Obama, agree that this is a starting point. There's mush work to be done. I doubt anybody here knows what all is in this bill or how it will actually affect us when implemented. I sure don't. IMO, Obamacare is unpopular in a large part due to poor, inaccurate, often fabricated information being peddled as fact.
Edited by Bigskyx (06/29/1205:34 PM)
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