World Trade Federation! Seriously is this best approach to natural wolf self reintroduction to our state? Maybe if we had not removed their natural prey and replaced them with big dumb cattle this would not be a problem. Notice that there is only one herd involved that the wolves are preying on. Sad our response is to eradicate the pack and not remove the wandering manure factories.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/sep2112a/

Damn we better preemptively kill the North cascades sole grizzly once it becomes a problem too cause it was not invited and we weren't prepared for it to reintroduce itself yet! Besides its Canadian, eh!

we killed all the wolfs in the past for good reason and should now to for the same reasons.

Wolfhuggers.....



I killed two wolves in Alaska in '98 and will have a tag in my pocket every time I hunt in wolf country.

We've beat this subject into the ground & I really don't feel like typing a bunch of words right now.

My standard tree/wolf hugger response remains unchanged....

Spokane Wolf Pack, wish we had one. I think the pack in the lead
post is the Wedge pack or the one that roams Kelly hill and envirions.
Has to eat beef, poor things. The cattle running on National Forest
land must look like slow elk to them. Bummer.
Nice wolf pic there Salmonella. Don't get the IQ flash signal tho.

The cattle herd that is being targeted by this wolf pack is grazing on public land. I believe that fact let's me (and every one else that is part of the public) to have a legitimate opinion. My opinion, public land is going to allow multiple uses including grazing by cattle and predation by wolves. You don't want your cattle to be targeted, put them on your own land and you will have every right to kill the wolves if they come on your land. To have the WDFW kill the wolves to protect your cattle is bogus IMHO.

I have done more reading and the Wedge pack is the only one preying on the untended chow wagons in the national forest. There are about 4 more packs in NE Washington not currently preying on livestock. I think for the Wedge pack the damage is done and these wolves will not be able to adapt to normal prey. They should be culled. It is too bad cause these animals did not create this situation, but they will be killed for what has happened. I figure that its OK for stuffed animal lovers...I mean stuffed animal collectors..."big game hunters" to hunt them legally. I have no problem with folks legally hunting wolves anywhere.

The real problem is free ranging unattended livestock on public lands like the national forest. If they run their herds in the wilderness then they should not be surprised if some are killed by wild animals.

The state should be responsible since they leased grazing rights to the ranchers. Right? I mean would't you want to sue the state if you left your property unattended for undocumented packs of canadian predators to eat. Damn it is like the time I left my sandwich out and someone ate it. I should have sued

And Hank I would not make a good cattle guard. I like fresh bovine too 3:)

Currently 4.5 million acers of the western US public land is leased at below market value, for grazing livestock, and this livestock makes up 5% of the total livestock production in the US.

You have no real grasp of reality but we appreciate the emotion you have for stupidity...

I guess when it comes to stupidity, you are the expert.

Maybe you should go wander the Olympics with a salt lick tied to your back side. You too could find love and get a reality check while your at it. This bauaaaws for you! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLC7eds50xg

They offered the rancher(s) monetary compensation and they turned it down cold. They want fur! Personally I think they should get it themselves. Wouldn't it be more gratifying if they did it themselves? Oh wait that would mean getting on horse back and working hard to get those wolves.

The state should not give them the option to renew their grazing lease when it is up. Too much for trouble all parties involved.

It's always nice to see Ketas' sister kicking in her 2C....keep up the good work girl.

I'm flattered you put so much thought into my 'backside'. You'd be better off getting a ph.uckin' clue though.

It sounds like you and sister illahee are sheep....

Coyotes eat neighborhood cats, should we kill all local coyotes?

No ph.uckin' way they offered market value. Liberals have no sense of value or worth...mostly because they have none themselves.

I'd prefer to kill all the cats. Considering the damage they do.......only lesbians and douchebag liberals (but I repeate myself) would oppose such a plan.

Hey coyotes are nice and cute not like the big bad wolves. I have a local pack coyotes near my place and yes they have killed my cats and harassed my dogs, but I have not gone out and killed them. The WDFW said go for it as did local sheriff's dept. They even suggested the SSS. The option is open and maybe some day as an act of depredation I might. Just not yet. When I moved here I told my children, "No, we cannot shoot all the critters". We did not move to the "country" to kill every nuisance animal. That said I have had 3 bears trapped by the state and removed with a one month period. They were a real menace around the yard.

I grew up on the other side of the mountains in pow dunk central worshington. I am not a liberal or sheeple either. I can think for myself thanks.

what does Wolf taste like?

Whoa! Who is BigStick?

I have never been there ready when they show up. It is always one scouting and trying to antagonize my dogs into jumping the fence to play the follow me back to the pack game for dinner. The last time they attempted that all three dogs went over. That was about 2 years ago now. They didn't expect two lab mixes and a sheperd to all dine with them. They come around less now, but pick off my barn cats when they are off our place outside of the wire. My main concern is they have followed my kids down to the main road a couple of times. I think it was due ti kids dropping off unfinished snacks. Acclimating them to associate kids with left over food/ treat s. I have not seen one for a year, but they prowl the around calling in the driveway a couple times a month. One day

I'm doing the best can, Jeeze...

Damn Sam. What did you do?! That is a mess of yotes.

Coyote drive.

I'd like to stay & chat but duty calls.........

Another dipstick predaphobe, who would have guessed?

Maybe a PETA site would be more to your liking.....although this site is quickly resembling said site.

SSS isn't necessary when it's perfectly legal...unless you like dresses and play with dolls. So in your case shi.tting, sniveling, and snotting might be your best course of action when faced with a Coyote.

Bless your heart.

Your funny. Nice sense of humor.

Possum...not chicken.

Here is a plan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rTh54Q2Puk

maybe if the wolfs they planted where of the same sub-species as was here before it might be better but they brought in Canadian wolfs that are larger and hunt in bigger packs.

Hank I wood but the school would consider it a weapon.

That thought is just way too simple. Right on, but way too simple. After we spend a few Million on studies and the studies about the studies, and then re-introduce them......we have what? What we started out with before all the studies!

Wolves and people don't mix.......geez, that's a really tough one.

Anybody want to explain how wolves in the woods makes our lives better? 20 words or less.

Coyotes have taken a toll on my turkeys this year so far. I hunt an area out to about a mile from my house. Usually take a few per year, and leave the bodies along trails leading to our property. These guys seem to be smarter this year, as I have zero.zero to date.

Hey Andy, nice seeing you this weekend and thanks for sucky aim with the PBG

Wolves help facilitate the natural selection process of the wild game they stalk and eat...thinning weak or old animals from the herd. I think that reason alone is enough of one to keep them around.

Now if they become accustomed to killing off a farmers herd, they could trapped and relocated versus killing them...IMO.

The bottom line is these cattle being eaten are on public range land, the question is should our wildlife be manged for the advantage of big game hunters and cattle ranchers grazing cattle on public land?
My reaction is if you don't want your cattle eaten by wolfs, then take better care of them, and as for big game hunters, they are always looking for a reason to blame for their lack of success as a hunter.

In Utopia wolves are great, I love them and love watching them and think the wild is more real with them in it. However In an eco system where man has penned up the prey onto islands of habitat the wolf is at a distinct advantage and does not fit into a balanced management plan. Yellowstone is a perfect study for what will happen.

Wish I had a couple of feral cat eating Coyotes hereabouts. I enjoy the
Quail's antics about the garden. A pair had 15 chicks a while back and
now they're down to 7. Feral Cats are the culprits.
I like cats, have had as many as 3 once. However, they were house
cats and not turned out to roam and do what cats do in the outdoors.
If the government leases OUR public lands to ranchers the cost to the
rancher ought to include predator control if needed. Personally I would
rather have the Wolves out there in the National Forests than cattle/
The wolves don't trash the streams and wetlands as do free range
cattle.

eddie, I find myself in agreement with your stance. Egad.

Ah you were aware that wildlife bio's are calling the reintroduction of wolfs into Yellowstone a success?
The only ones claiming it is a failure are knuckledraggers who don't know their a$$ from a plate of peas.
Just sayin.

Thats a good one. Yellowstone is an epic failure on all levels the only thing Yellowstone is good for is a case study on what not to do. They can say what they want the wolves do not stay on the island and are wiping out Elk herds off of it.

Nice seeing you too Ryley.

23 words. Fail. ( ) Aren't there bears, coyotes and cougars out there already providing that service? I don't see where we need more culling and competition in the different wild game herds. Their introduction may displace the prey that other predators eat, having an additional impact on other animals as an unintended consequence.

All sides agree, once they start killing livestock, they don't stop, so transplanting them only moves the problem to someone else's back yard.

As for coyotes, love em or hate em they have to be respected. For more than a century we have shot them, poisoned them, trapped them, put a bounty on them and there are more now that ever. Talk about an animal that takes a licking and keeps on ticking!

Yes we should--least the ones in my back yard!

I'm glad wolves have been re-introduced and others are migrating into long unoccupied territory. Not only are the wolves interesting in and of themselves, there is bonus entertainment in the form of comments and rants from people who are bothered by the wolves. True, it's a perverse form of entertainment.

It's like which predaphobe can be the stupidest contest.

I say we give those socialist ranchers the boot off our public land. They've been sucking off the government teat too much and their entitlement has run dry. Make them graze on their own private land and not subsidized public-owned land.

No predaphobe here, but when a predator is reintroduced into an area where they have not been for multiple decades, as in a half century or more, it is akin to introducing a deleterious species. Do you disagree?

Nevermind the coolness factor. Really, why is it good for everything else that it will kill to have these guys back in the woods?

Here, and here.

there are plenty more......

exerpts from the last link:


"I have been able to find 27 recorded wolf attacks on humans in North America."

"Also, children often tended the family herds and still do in places such as India, where at least 273 children have been killed by wolves."

In the wolve's defense.....rabies is the main cause of human attack.

"Or how about this statistic: 29,000 people injured and 200 killed each year in the United States in automobile collisions with deer."

Does that mean no more abortions, cancer treatments, hip replacements, ad infinitum?

I get what you are saying, and I know that I am playing the devil's advocate here......but can't you see the double standard of saying Nature knows Best, except for us? If we don't like what occurs naturally in us, we change it or improve it as best we can.......but with the animal kingdom (which by your statement doesn't include us) all is "as it should be"........my turn......WHAT?

Oh my.


No-Doz powder.....sounds like a KK facial thing.

its Tea....

There you go again.....excluding humans from the animal kingdom.

nite nite........

These wolves crossed into our county illegally from Canada without proper documents and are killing USDA prime beef. Damn Canadians we should put up a fence and monitoring station to stop the invading hoards!

When I first read the state wolf's plan I thought it was a nice compromise, just as long as the state kept to their word and removed problem wolves/packs. Good to see they kept their side of the bargain.

I'm looking forward to hearing my first wild wolf and maybe someday will have the opportunity to hunt one.

As for those bitching about ranchers on public land. Well, good luck with that since they basically wrote the state constitution and are very happy to remind us west siders of that fact.

Since Wolves and Grizzly bears were eradicated from the human
horizons by our age old afflictions of fear and greed, I welcome them
back. We do all kinds of programs to help the survivability of Woodland Caribou, Elk, Mule Deer and many other creatures. If some of our
tax monies have to be for compensating ranchers for their Provable
losses to Wolves, so be it.
Ernest Thompson Seton was a Naturlist. He wrote many books and
short stories about creatures he managed to humanize. BS. I read
most of his writings years ago and his story about Lobo was a
good one when I read it. And then we grow up.
Now we are spending money to re- introduce the Red Wolf into
its' old range in the SouthWest.
go figure

A much gooder wolf photo....








Nailed it dead nuts on!



An overview of elk populations (albeit a tad dated) post wolf introduction.

• The Northern Yellowstone elk herd trend count has dropped from some 19,000 elk in 1995 before the introduction of the Canadian Gray wolf to just over 6,000 elk in 2008. At the same time the wolf numbers in this same area are on a steady increase.

• Yellowstone's Madison Firehole elk herd trend count has fallen from 700 to 108.

• The Gallatin Canyon elk herd trend count between Bozeman and Big Sky, Mont., has declined from 1,048 to 338.

• Wolf numbers in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming have far exceeded the original goals of 30 breeding pairs and 300 total wolves. Population estimates now exceed 1,700 wolves. And yet and others want to push the total up to 2,000 to 5,000 wolves.

• Studies show that wolves kill up to 23 elk per wolf from November through April alone or up to 40,000 elk in just six months. A smaller but still significant number are killed from May through October; with total annual elk kills by wolves just for food potentially greater than 50,000 at the present level of wolf population. This accounts for only the elk needed for food, not surplus killing, which are elk killed by wolves and not eaten, which also occurs. The majority of all these kills are not elk that are sick or old.

• Elk calf survival rates where wolves (and bears) are present are extremely low in specific herds, resulting in a survival rate of 10 percent or less-too low to sustain the herd over the long-term. RMEF points out this is a major issue as elk numbers going into the future, where wolves are concentrated, will suffer even greater losses and replacement becomes out of balance.

[/]




Keeping one species (especially a highy efficient predator)completetely protected based on anthropomorhic bullschitt is a recipe for diaster.
(As per the holy Mountain Lion in California)



If we're to regulate ecosystems, for an artificial balance in the name of man's benefit, we must kill the same percentages of predators as we do prey or simply accept total crashes in population numbers of both ungulates and predators which may take decades to recover which is simply the way ma Nature operates.

However in this ever spiraling feel good "Animal Planet society " peoplewould much prefer to see the deer and antelope playing on the prairie from the windows of their Subarus and Land Rovers.

I love wolves in states such as alaska, montana and the such but washington is not those states. We are run by pugetopolis and reading this discussion goes to show why we should not have re-introduced wolves to this state.

We do not live in a Utopia. We have taken up the wintering grounds with our cities and boxed in pray species into smaller and smaller areas. They stand no chance against wolves in the small areas we have put them. A pack will sit on them and exterminate individual herds.

Individual moose will get it first in the northeast corner and numbers are falling already followed by the elk as they move heavily into the cascades. And our seattle coffee drinkers will never let them be managed without years of court room battles that the WDFW will not have the stomach for.

Wolves are great but they must be managed as all species and this state is not idaho or alaska or montana. We are washington(controlled by seattle) and that is trouble.

Kinda Ironic, we argue over the wolf population eating OUR elk and
deer. Kill em all many say. And yet we allow Cominco to poison the
Columbia River on a daily basis. And the only ones upbrading them
are the tribes. Inane.
Since we are who we are, overpopulation of any species we rub
shoulders with needs to be dealt with. However, not by genocide.

There is nothing wrong with Unicorns....

It's kinda sad that the lady holding the killed wolf thinks it's worth
a smile. If the wolf was about to make a meal of her the smile might
be justified. But to smile over the death of a beautiful bit of North
American Fauna is kinda sick. Finding your 'nads by killing is also
kinda sick in most cases. (note usage, most)
The Grey is just a bit of Holly Wood flim flam as usual.

You have often earned my respect, however as Hankster often
points out you have your head in a dark place too often.
I hunt and kill some venison. If you and PETA don't like it. tuff chit

I don't kill wolves or Coyotes for sport. If they were a threat to me
and mine then I would probably take terminal action. Has nothing
to do with 'nads. You don't know chit about 'nads.
You can garden produce in fine fashion, Stick to what you know.

I agree with Illy on this one...hunting and killing stuff that you'll eat is fine...killing schit just to kill schit is pretty lame, in my opinion.

Fish on...

Todd

Yeah, because we're all gonna starve if a wolf eats a cow. You sound like Tom Joad...and you don't wanna sound like Tom Joad.

And...depredation hunting is not just hunting for sport...which, incidentally, I suspect many hunters who are expressing their dismay for the ranchers and their poor cattle, want to do. They could give a rat's ass about the cattle, or the rancher...they just want an excuse to go shoot a dog.

Fish on...

Todd

Men are from Mars. Women on some occasions are from that new planet Theranus. The importan thing to them is to have the last word..
Wonder why any issue turns into a personal attack???

Tood teaches logic at night school at Fuktard U. You have to have zero life experience and a barrel of opinions to enroll.

And TJ/TK once again proves that it is possible for a sad old man to still be flexible enough to get his entire head and shoulders up his ass.

Fish on...

Todd

I kill coons, possums, and coyotes as part of protecting my turkeys, chickens, and pheasants. Other animals will become targets if necessary. Don't plan on eating any of them, ever.

I usually have $30 into a turkey by the time it is ready for slaughter. I can sell them all day long for $60.

You are better off not killing coyotes but shutting off their food supply. If you start killing them they are able to match their predation rate by increasing litter size and shortening their gestation period. So you end up with 10 half starved coyotes looking for food where you may only have two if you let them balance. Lots of studies done on this topic to answer the question why we have more coyotes today after 200 years of killing everyone we see.

I pen most of my birds. (Pheasants, meat birds) Turkeys and layers free range. I expect some losses. Dogs are much more of a threat. Lost 10 in one day to a dog.

I kill the coyotes and leave their bodies on the trails to the house from Grean Diamond property. Usually stops them for a good long period when I get a couple. Pup time is the issue. They look for easier prey then. After the pups are grown, they head to the timber.

Too many pets around for snares.



Quiet, but deadly. Wire in foreground leads to a speaker playing a wounded rabbit call.

You talking about self control and maturity. That's a riot.
You cannot disagree on any matter and not revert to a juvenile personal affront. You're like the nasty little brat in her yard calling
anyone that passes names. Poor KK, you are so fickle. You were
his cheerleader for a while. What happened, estrogenitis?
Go stroke your goats and look out for the Turks.

1. I doubt the mods care, at all.
2. He contributes a lot...though not in the way he thinks. Entertainment value is high.
3. You calling him out for calling names is almost as funny as his IQ148 claim. Almost.

Fish on...

Todd

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe I have done anything to dismay
the mods. Disagree politically perhaps. If a foul mouth and mis-pelled
grafitti are the ticket for the dark side I can stand correction. However,
I suspect your foul mouth would need to be addressed too.

I care.

But I'm not a mod.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. I don't really care. I was kidding. I also don't care if the mods care, or if they don't...though I'm still pretty sure they could care less, too.

Do you dare to care?

I don't care enough to dare enough...to care.

Fish on...

Todd

It is after all just the interwebs.

It takes being a real fuckin' donkey to get the mods to care about what's going down on the dark side.

We like it that way and would discourage the use of the "Notify" button unless something outrageous is going on..........so that the mods don't have to pull in the reigns on the dark side.

Thank you for your consideration.

Odd I never have and don't claim 148. I said I was tested in High School and got that number for a Jr year episode. I do claim at least a C mark just to be able to associate with all you Mensa Society
rejects.

Ranty, your suffering has my sympathy.

For someone with such a high opinion of themselves, your writing style sucks the big one.
Try not sounding like a douchbag for a change, that would definitely help.

Cut Illy a little slack...his last couple posts at least are complete sentences, and on topic...both of which are significant steps forward.

Fish on...

Todd

You are certainly entitled to your opinion todd, but for some arrogant douchebag to simpfly the reasons I hunt down to simply"killin schit" or "proving my manhood" really pisses me off and is completely inline with your "my way or the highway" attitude in life.
Some would certainly consider dragging an endangered species through the water by a barbed trebble hook burried deep in it's mouth simply for sport to be an act of depraved selfishness as well.

I have many times reflected my reasons for hunting.

I have compassion.

20 minutes ago I filleted a hen King Salmon.
I remember feeling remorse as I popped her gills in the river and watched the life drain from her body in a red bloody cloud.
As I removed the skeins of eggs from her belly I felt some angst as I wondered how many of those eggs would have matured to fruition as beautiful Kings that would have returned to my most precious river.

As a young boy I was in complete awe of the creatures that I share this world with.
I would walk into a local sporting goods store and simply stare in awe at the magnificent trophies mounted on the walls.
Nothing mankind has ever created can compare with the beauty that I find in nature.
From the majestic rack of a rutting six point bull elk, to the imposing power of the mighty Grizzly, to the sleek beauty of a chrome bright steelhead, I have immersed myself in the artwork of Mother Nature all of my life.

Selfishly taking the lives of these creatures then trying to rationalize that nearly sinful act is a paradox that I continue to wrestle with to this day.
I simply cannot convey in words the reasons i bear to kill beautiful animals that aren't generally classified as food.
Human greed and a desire to bring them into my life might be a twisted rationale that I use .
The dead creatures that surround me in my trophy room are finer axamples of art than any Van Gough or Picasso in the Louv're.
I don't have many people over to my house, but preserve that incredible beauty just for me.
Human selfishness I suppose.

This year was the first year since the 1980's that I didn't kill a local Blacktail deer.
Yes, I had multiple opportunities at legal bucks at close range with both rifle and bow.
My son killed two bucks, our freezer is full of meat and I really had no desire to kill another animal.
Had an exceptional example of the species given me the opportunity, I'd have taken him and been proud to do so, conquering a wily, overly mature specimen gives me deep feelings of satisfaction knowing that you outwitted a creature with senses hundreds of times greater that those of man .

Often I feel that Man is the cancer of this planet, that the beautiful and innocent creatures that I pursue are much more worthy inhabitants of this incredible thing we call Earth.
I hunted with a bow on the last day of rifle season, a fine looking 18" 3x2 gave me a perfect broadside shot at 18 yards and I had him at full draw, only to let him walk.
I felt contentment knowing that I had decided life over death.
Weird huh?

On topic, No. I don't hate Wolves.
Maybe just the oposite, I have a such deep rooted passion for all things wild.
I want to run my fingers through their sleek fur, smell their punget smell, hear them howl that deep bellowing howl that echoes through the mountains on a crisp full moon night.

Few things on this planet match the love I have for my dog.
It has an intelligence, it has emotions, it feels pain and stress and companionship.
I'd be a fool to think that a Wolf didn't share those same feelings and basic animal instincts, after all a dog is a wolf.
Yet I understand the violent nature of a Wolf's world, they kill rivals, they kill to survive, and they are intelligent and they are apex predators and I compete with them as a hunter of hooved animals.
It is man that I dislike most in this world, yet I am one.
It is wildlife that I love beyond description, yet I kill.
This paradox, this conflict, this wrestling with emotions I cannot define in words though I've tried so many times.

Remember that when your turn comes.



Cope, Cope, Cope, Cope.

http://www.sfgate.com/outdoors/article/Lion-attack-on-tent-camper-is-unprecedented-3690819.php

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-08-26/us/us_alaska-bear-attack_1_park-service-park-rangers-toklat-river


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Alaska...9178/story.html

Such a paradox where society wants to save the wolves but partial birth abortions can be legal.

Two down.

http://www.king5.com/news/environment/State-kills-2-wolves-in-northeast-Wash-171266721.html

Then kill them all!

I have a rifle by the front door and any coyote that walks on my land that i see dies....

Well said. I don't agree with all, but I do agree on much of what
you posted.
Went scouting our hunt area Sunday. 12 Coyotes, 10 White Tail deer,
and 4 Mulys were observed. I will take a White Tail doe for the
freezer. Horn mounts are just something else to dust, to me.
To each his own.

Damn Salmonella......one of the best posts around here in sometime.

Very nicely put Salmonella, conveyed a lot of my feelings.


Fishy

I love when Samonella or Dogfish gets their dander up and end up eloquently typing exactly what I feel- compassionate respect for a resource with a paradox between the love of harvest and the regret that comes from ending a life- fish, foul or other.


I enjoy feeling like I am a part of something bigger, savoring an opportunity past, often not killing and equally celebrating success.


Aldo Leupold said that a bird watcher is depriving himself of part of the experience if he doesn't have a chance to feel the warmth of his curiosity, take in the smell and heft of his prey.


Ironically, he also wrote this



Killing the Wolf

[....] We were eating lunch on a high rimrock, at the foot of which a turbulent river elbowed its way. We saw what we thought was a doe fording the torrent, her breast awash in white water. When she climbed the bank toward us and shook out her tail, we realized our error: it was a wolf. A half-dozen others, evidently grown pups, sprang from the willows and all joined in a welcoming melee of wagging tails and playful maulings. What was literally a pile of wolves writhed and tumbled in the center of an open flat at the foot of our rimrock.

In those days we had never heard of passing up a chance to kill a wolf. In a second we were pumping lead into the pack, but with more excitement than accuracy; how to aim a steep downhill shot is always confusing. When our rifles were empty, the old wolf was down, and a pup was dragging a leg into impassable side-rocks.

We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes—something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.

Since then I have lived to see state after state extirpate its wolves. I have watched the face of many a newly wolfless mountain, and seen the south-facing slopes wrinkle with a maze of new deer trails. I have seen every edible bush and seedling browsed, first to anaemic desuetude, and then to death. I have seen every edible tree defoliated to the height of a saddlehorn. Such a mountain looks as if someone had given God a new pruning shears, and forbidden Him all other exercise. In the end the starved bones of the hoped-for deer herd, dead of its own too-much, bleach with the bones of the dead sage, or molder under the high-lined junipers.



I believe his view reflects observation from a different time as I grew up seeing nothing but a maze of deer trails and I have never seen a wild wolf however, I doubt he would disagree with moderated interference in the name of balance when it comes to wolves today with exception of the ludicrous idea of reintroduction (but that mistake has already been made). The severity of interference should be based on science not emotion though and a wolf legally harvested in an area of concentration is expected.



I think Samonella's wolf is incredible and such a rare experience should be celebrated even if it isn't a personal goal of mine.

Some of us read A sand county almanac while Tood must have read A sandy vagina almanac

Sal, if you think I'm talking about you, then perhaps you should consider why you think that.

Joad, you should consider why it is you fail to think at all.

Fish on...

Todd

And Sal, I appreciate your last post a lot.

When it comes to wolves I have my opinions, and that's all they are...if I'm going to kill something it will be for a few specific reasons, no matter what the animal is.

If it's something I can eat, and I enjoy eating it, then I'll participate in a hunt.

If it's a depradation hunt that I think needs to be done, then I'll participate in that, too, but again only if it's something that can be eaten.

I won't kill a wolf for killing things. It's what wolves do, it's their nature and beauty, and I won't kill a wolf for being a wolf. Same goes for a coyote.

I've killed and eaten black bear, thought it ate like crap, and never killed another one. Don't need a rug, or a mount, so I don't need a black bear.

I haven't killed an elk since the last one I killed took three of us two days to move the good parts 1.5 miles out of a steep canyon to the nearest pickup point...it wasn't fun, and if it's not fun then what's the point? I like eating elk, though, so have no problem with borrowing a few steaks every year from my hunting buddies

In the extreme my "killing schit just to kill schit" comment would go to hunts like safari hunts...there's no reason to shoot a water buffalo, or a rhinoceros or elephant, unless it's to be the Great White Hunter. Drive out there with your guide (who picked out your animal a month ago for you and has been keeping tabs on it), he says "there's your animal", shoot it, pose for pics...not sure that there's any point to that except to prove that you can't hunt.

Trophy hunting to just collect more things on the "look what I've killed list" goes in the same category, if that's your only motivation to do it.

I really enjoy the hunting aspect of it, I'll admit, and I've been known to take my elk calls out and mess around with the elk without ever carrying a gun...I can get the satisfaction of calling them in and checking them out just fine that way, too.

The wolf issue gets me a little wound up every time it comes up because I hear from hunters who express dismay for the poor farmer and cattle, when what they really mean is "I want to kill a wolf", and their sincerity about it is paper thin.

If you want to kill a wolf because it is a problem animal, or is in place/time where a pack needs to be thinned for some management reason, then there's your time to do it...if a hunter just wants to put a check mark on his list of dead animals then I think that's creepy.

I hunt and fish for the same reasons you, and presumably most everyone else does...there's a reason I live in the Pacific Northwest where fish and game and the opportunity to pursue them is a year long and life long endeavor.

Fishing, of course, is a little different...while it is indeed a blood sport and fish do die, intentionally or otherwise, you do have the ability to let them go and the great majority of them will live to spawn. I mostly participate in kill fisheries when it comes to river and salt fisheries, and I love bringing home fish to eat...and my neighbors and non-fishing friends love it when I do, too

Fishing for wild steelhead is pretty much the only non-harvest fishery I participate in, and not surprisingly it's my favorite thing to do, too.

I've certainly caught a pile of "trophy" wild steelhead that could have been bonked, and would have made nice mounts, too, if I was into that...nowadays most of the fisheries require the release of those fish, and I'm fine with that since I haven't bonked one since the early '80's (bonked two way back in the day ).

A day in the woods...or a week, or a month...with my buddies, and a few pics if we bring along a camera and take the time to use it...good food, good company, good times. That's why I'm out there, too.

Fish on...

Todd

Most hunters would prefer to be the deciders, instead of nature.
And they don't like any animal that competes with their vision of what hunting is.

Well said Todd.

What this hunter doesn't like is the reintroduction of a species that hasn't been here for decades. Other predator species have filled in some of the gaps in the absence of wolves, the way that the number of cougars have increase, and as some have said, coyotes too.

The primary arguement for the people who want wolves here is the coolness factor. Everybody who goes outdoors into the woods, and lives in areas, where wolves are present and are expanding their packs will be impacted.

So your saying wolfs have not habitated the PNW for decades?
How would you compare that to tens of thousands of years prior to that?

I don't believe you can say this truthfully if you havent been in that position..

I own a 10 acre mini farm and if yotes are around they die... I have lost 3 cats and several chickens to yotes and all cost me money to feed and purchase... If my family dog was to kill one of the other animals he is dead as well....

Other than some fishing report, I think that was the most thoughful and self-introspective thing you've ever written here Todd... that I have read anyways.


I admire your intelligence, conviction and willingness to debate on a daily basis, even if I just as often disagree with your opinion eventhough I consider myself less than a qualified critic. But, I think it is rare that you do much to confess your true feelings and that seemed unusual but refreshing IMO.

Why people expect to put a food source in the middle of coyote habitat and then fault the coyote for doing what comes naturally is beyond me. I have a farm too everything is properly penned and I have not lost an animal in years. I have cats and we only let them out when someone is outside. Primarily because they kill all the songbirds. The coyotes ,bobcats, bears are in balance. Killing them because you fail to manage your farm stock is old school and unneeded. I try to fit into my habitat not alter it unnecessarily. It's different if you run cattle or sheep it's in reasonable to expect someone to pen stock from wolves on that scale. Specifically when there were no wolves when they started the operation.

Yup. They've been gone (wolves) for many decades as a viable population, and the prey species is ill equipped to deal with them because they haven't had them as a predators in generations. While there may have been a stray wolf or pack that had traveled through Washington in the past 50 years or more, they really haven't been here in any numbers until the past decade or so.

Man came and displaced the wolf.

You have your style of operation, I have mine. I make no apologies. I find that taking two coyotes a year usually does a pretty good job of removing the threat from my property for 8-12 months.

Certainly but those two dogs eat a [Bleeeeep!] ton of mice , keep the opossum and coons from spreading disease. They are very beneficial to hobby farms.

And the game animals no longer have their traditional wintering grounds or the ability to move around to find places to excape. Many, if not most, of those areas happen to be the same places we like to live and build cities and towns. This forces those same game animals to live out the winter not only with less food than when wolves last chased them but in deeper snows. Advantage.....Wolves.

I love the thought of wolves and have had four separate chances to harvest one all in Alaska while hunting other big game. Never have. Likely never will. Just not on my bucket list as much as dall, moose or mountain goat so I am not of the "kill to kill" every wolf camp.

I just do not believe we can add in a new apex preditor without drastically changing hunting in Washington for all prey species. Not with how bad we have screwed up the balance of nature. Sal said it best.....We are the cancer that makes reintroduction a bad idea.

Perhaps someone can answer this for me.
Have any wolves been re-introduced in Washington, or have the packs migrated to new territory from Montana, Oregon, Idaho and BC?
Thanks for any info you can provide.
SF

My assumption is that they have migrated this way from Canada, and possibly from Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. The Yellowstone wolves that were reintroduced in 1995 fanned out, and it is possible that as the Yellowstone wolves moves they displaced non-related packs westward towards Washington and Idaho.

WDFW's take on gray wolf recovery and why we've seen an increase.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/

DF,
Thanks for the info.
SF

Many hunters are perfectly happy when all apex predators are removed from the environment.
So why don't they just hunt high fence?
It's called an ecosystem, and saying we should manage it to the benefit of big game hunters and public land grazers makes no biological sense what so ever.

You can vaccinate canines and cats for those diseases. You cannot vaccinate for the protozoals and tularemia carried by opossum and coons. Horses are more expensive than dogs and you cannot protect them from exposure short of eradication methods.

Coons and possums break into my pens and have killed birds and raided eggs, so I control those as well. Any preditor that comes onto my farm that I see gets dealt with quickly and humanely.







My dog helps as well.

Notice how comfortable the bird is, sleeping?

No hatchets used on the possums?

AM,
EPM from opossum in Wa is far more likely than Sarcocystosis from coyote's . You are so far out of your league on anything to do with farming or ranching , stop while you can.


Stam, My grandpa had that same philosophy. Anyone that used a balanced approach on the farm or had a different idea was a college boy yuppie. He broke his horses, spanked his kids and beat his dog I never saw the need for any of it. There are better ways to do things and if that makes me a college boy yuppie I am honored.

Not seeing what the problem is ?

OK Google hobby farmer I will take pity and assume you wan tot learn something and not just run your mouth. Look up definitive vs intermediate hosts and then look up EPM which one is the definitive host for S. neurona. Now cite the cases of EPM from coyotes in North America?

If you're using the kill as a barometer for success then your probably not going to be happy with wolf reintroduction, but if you judge your hunt by the quality of the chase, then you'll probably like what is happening.

AM, When you come across someone with horses or cattle that have had issues from coyotes carrying EPM let your vet know he will have a good chuckle. You know zero about it like most things.

I lived in northern MN in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area.

This land is shared amongst--Timber wolves, deer, moose , otters, pine martins, bear, bobcats, badger, beaver, porcupine, possums, squirrels, mink, coons, foxes, wolverines, humans, many many lakes with many many fish, varmints, and feathered friends, dogs and cats, some livestock.

When I lived there I saw occasional wolves or sign of-I never heard/witnessed of a wolf killing livestock or any pets. Living amongst wolves was just part of the deal. I had a friend that had over 20 sled dogs and never had issues, another couple lived there for long time-had many cats, dogs, chickens, took in wounded animals—never had a issue with a wolf, a coyote or a bear. --mink or fox, coons Yes.

I did see a pack of wolves chase down a deer on a frozen lake—that was pretty fricken cool. Another time when fishing a river I walked up on a deer carcass all that was left was rib cage, bones and skull and lots of hair and blood.

Though I did not witness there is depredation and the population est. at 3,000 wolves +- it is the highest population in lower 48.

This is the first year I heard of a season. The season will allow to trap.

squint real hard to see

Egad. I find myself enjoying your narrative on hunting as you like it.
No issues, Well said Todd.

Nice try. That company sells testing. How about you come up with a source from a known vetranary university like WSU, Duke, OSU that will back that up with research.
Then tell every horse farm and cattle ranch in the US that they have to get rid of cats and dogs becasue they carry EPM.

The truth is you know nothing you are scouring the google universe looking for anything that will back you up. Tell us how many horses and cattle you ave raised and doctored. How many cattle ranches and horse farms you have worked on and how many farmers and ranchers you know. A hand full of goats on a few scrub acres and all of the sudden you are an expert.

That sounds really bitter with a tinge of jealousy Stam. I like you better playing the self deprecating hillbilly sage in the roll of the popular kid in the clique much better. Any time you want to call BS on what I know don't be bashful just ask . Sorry I hurt your feelings when I said that killing every coyote means you are a non thinker.

I'm sure stam is jealous of you, Elvis.

Just when one thinks you couldn't possibly say dumber sh!t than you say, you raise the bar another notch.

I'm pretty sure stam was trying to pay you a compliment, you f'n cock. Way to make him look like a fool for doing so.

Do the world a favor and go kill yourself.

Dogs are not carriers because they do not typically eat carrion , carrion in the form of dead possums. I don't have to read goggle because I have a full large animal vet library and a large network of farmers and ranchers with 1000s of hours of exp. doctoring hooves animals. Every farm I know is loaded with dogs and cats they all [Bleeeeep!] in their pastures non will tell you that a horse came down with Epm because of it. However when opossums move in to the area it starts to show up. Very few cases of systoma related illness in cattle are recognized because of the short duration on the ranch of steer and cows are not eaten as often. You typically notice it at butcher as intramuscular cysts. Cattle will get scour or some other symptomatic illness and gets treated for that . I know very few people that run labs on their herd unless something is wide spread or they are selling high end breeding stock.

Nancy , who cares?

Like I said before, didn't we get rid of this guy already?


Fishy

Just a couple of success stories from the property that border's mine.

One of mine is sleeping, the other riding a bike.

A few good gems buried in here amongst the usual dark side clutter

Well said Sal and Todd!

Carry on Dogfish!

I for one like the idea of sharing the wilderness with wolves, grizzlies, wolverines etc.... and am glad that the concerned parties, mainly the state and wolf huggers are sticking to the states wolf management plan. I still think the WMP should not include any westside packs or a fixed number of packs before opening up a hunting season but should look at impacts on a case by case basis to determine hunting seasons/areas.

As for predator hunting. I'm not a predator hunter but may help a farmer out this winter by culling a few coyotes in hopes of being allowed to hunt geese/chucker on his property. Other then that I don't really plan on hunting predators but do carry a black bear and cougar tag just in case. If the opportunity arises and I feel at that time that it is a good representative of that species and it's not too far from the truck I'll pursue it. Or not. Well see. I did knock an arrow earlier this year and tried to circle around an ~150# black bear but he was sneaky and we never did see him again. If'n I happened to find him at 20 yards broadside I'd probably have taken him. Or not

I will add that I've been munching on bear jerky this year and it's pretty yummy.

I like them too.
My friend Mark is one of the most successful wolf hunters/trapper/shooters to ever live, he was voted trapper of the year by the Alaska Trapper's association a few years back.

This was a whopper Alpha male.
Wolf sizes are greatly exaggerated, the biggest he has taken of hundreds is about 130lbs.





The heaviest recorded in Yellowstone is 143lbs.

That's still pretty freaking big.


Fishy

B W P Nice pics. Fortunately the canines don't carry anywhere as many nasty parasites and microbes as Homo S.

sick

Give em all a dirt nap!!

Them wire leashes work great!!!

STFU

Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but non thinkers seem to be predaphopes.

Wolf threads, still among the most entertaining reads on the inter-webz. I'm learning more about people than about wolves tho.

I'm just trying to balance out BWP's sappy, anthropomorphic "the wolf is my brother" posts.



Predators and ungulates alike deserve a sustainable harvest plan based on reproduction and habitat.
No wild species deserves extinction.

I have both live wolf photos and dead wolf photos.

Here are some wolfies I shot with a camera...

WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/

September 27, 2012
Contact: Dave Ware, (360) 902-2509

WDFW concludes action to remove Northeast Washington wolf pack

OLYMPIA - The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) concluded its action to eliminate a pack of wolves in Northeast Washington today after an agency marksman killed the pack's alpha male just south of the Canadian border.

WDFW Director Phil Anderson said the wolf was shot this morning from a helicopter. Its death brought to six the number of wolves from the Wedge Pack removed in the past three days, including the alpha female.

"Directing the pack's removal was a very difficult decision, both personally and professionally, but it was necessary to reset the stage for sustainable wolf recovery in this region," he said. "Now we will refocus our attention on working with livestock operators and conservation groups to aggressively promote the use of non-lethal tactics to avoid wolf-livestock conflict."

With the latest operation concluded, Anderson said the department would continue to monitor wolf activity in the Wedge region as it is doing in other parts of the state.

The department initiated removal of the Wedge Pack late last week in an effort to put a stop to its persistent attacks on livestock from the herd of the Diamond M Ranch in northern Stevens County. Since July, the wolves had killed or injured at least 17 calves and cows from the herd.

The pack takes its name from the triangular shape of the Washington state portion of its range, which is bordered by the Columbia and Kettle rivers and Canada. Its elimination leaves the state with seven confirmed wolf packs and four suspected packs, most of which range in the remote, rugged forests of Northeast Washington.

WDFW began to lethally remove wolves from the pack in early August, as its pattern of predation began to escalate despite non-lethal efforts by the rancher and the department to prevent the attacks. A WDFW marksman killed a non-breeding member of the pack on August 7, and about two weeks later, biologists found the decomposed carcass of a young wolf within the Diamond M herd's grazing area. The young wolf had not been shot, and the cause of death could not be determined.

Teams of WDFW staff remained in the Wedge through August, trapping extensively and tracking the movements of the alpha male, which had been fitted with a location-transmitting radio collar.

However, Anderson said none of the rancher's or the department's efforts to change the pack's behavior succeeded, and attacks on the Diamond M herd increased through mid-September.

"Ultimately, it became clear that this pack was preying on livestock as its primary food source, and that our actions had not changed that pattern," Anderson said. "The independent wolf experts we consulted agreed with our staff that removal of the pack was the only viable option."

With the support of key conservation and livestock organizations, the department announced on Sept. 21 it would remove the pack to create the opportunity for wolves that are not habituated to preying on livestock to re-colonize the region.

Anderson said he looked forward to continuing to work with interested groups on a broad range of non-lethal management strategies under the terms of the Wolf Conservation and Management Plan approved by the state Fish and Wildlife Commission in December 2011.

WDFW is urging livestock operators to enter into cooperative, cost-sharing agreements with the department that specify non-lethal measures they will use to minimize wolf-livestock conflict.

"Lethal removal will remain a wolf management option, but we will use it only as a last resort, after all reasonable non-lethal options are exhausted," Anderson said.

He said he respects the opinions of the many citizens who contacted the department to share their support for or opposition to its actions. "We know these issues spark strong feelings among Washington residents across the state, which is why we are committed to conducting our business openly and transparently," he said.

My buddy is THE aerial gunner in central Alaska's unit 13.

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE AERIAL POPULATION REDUCTION WITH HUNTING!

I find myself screaming at the TV & computer every time I see someone complain about how unsporting the aerial shoots are.
They were never meant to be sporting any more than the exterminator is in trying to rid a house of rats or roaches.

just so we're clear, the wolves weren't eradicated, they starved. the white dudes eradicated the buffalo, wolves starved. coyotes moved in to take alpha predator status, feeding primarily on small game. traditional range of the coyote is east of the mississippi.

Isn't that sweet, wolves and flowers blooming, all we are missing is the double rainbow. Why not a picture of the wolves taking down a Bambi with blood runnung off thier snouts?

Hillbilly sage, I've known a few of those in my time and I was always amazed that they could sum things up with far fewer words than my supposed learned friends.

I think I'll steal that phrase.


Fishy

Yeah, shooting them from a helicopter is predator control. Shooting them from a fixed wing, that's sporting . . . that's the way they used to do it, back in the day . . . (just had to use that phrase cuz I hate it so cuz it sounds so stupid, thereby qualifying for use in a wolf thread.)

Howzabout some good old fashioned cannibalism?

Guess you know where you can stick your STFU.
It's sick, Not that the she wolf is dead but that some rejoice in it.