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#791306 - 10/11/12 12:13 AM Election Fraud
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116



O'Keefe Films DNC Employee at OFA-Houston Helping Woman Vote Twice; More to Come






By Tom Blumer | October 10, 2012 | 12:47

James O'Keefe's Project Veritas has done it again -- with, as is usually the case with his efforts, apparently more to come.

His latest effort, a six-minute video (direct YouTube link) which near its end taunts the establishment press ("Put your reputation on the line, journalists. Say this is an "isolated incident"), "exposes Obama campaign workers, including a Regional Field Director at Organizing for America (OFA), engaged in election fraud."

He promises that the video "will have you outraged at the illegal activity going on behind the scenes of President Obama's re-election effort - and we're just getting started!"

He's definitely right about generating outrage, at least in me:

video of fraud..........go to link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q_iJfnbMzI0

Here is just a bit of Matthew Boyle's "read the whole thing" post at the Daily Caller about O'Keefe's latest:


Videographer James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas caught an official for President Barack Obama’s re-election campaign helping who she thought was an Obama supporter set herself up to vote more than once in November.

Stephanie Caballero is the regional field director for Obama’s Organizing For America in Houston, Texas. Federal Election Commission documents show, according to Project Veritas, that Caballero is a “salaried employee of the DNC [Democratic National Committee].”

Caballero is caught on camera helping the young woman try to vote in Florida and Texas in the upcoming election.

... (in the video) O’Keefe then “a few weeks later,” his videographer went back to the office to follow up. Caballero gave her a Florida absentee ballot application to “help her vote twice.”

After Caballero sets the videographer up to vote in Florida, she asked the Project Veritas investigator: “Are you going to do what I think you’re going do?”

The videographer responded: “Well, I mean, if no one’s gonna know…”

Caballero audibly laughed, then said: “You’re so hilarious!”

As to the "we're just getting started!" assertion, the video's end teases what appear to be a future episode of a person who wants to vote in both Minnesota and New York, and also appears to promise to show proof of disparate treatment of those involved in registering voters, depending on whether they self-identify as Democrats or Republicans.

On the one hand, I can't wait. On the other hand, it is really disconcerting to see how casual about everything these lawbreakers are.


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/...twice-more-come















• Democrats frustrated by dopey Obama Big Bird ad (Reuters)
• Jack Welch: I Was Right About That Strange Jobs Report (Wall Street Journal)
• Poll war: Rasmussen flicks off NBC's Chuck Todd (Paul Bedard, Washington Examiner)
• New companies file suit against ObamaCare HHS mandate (Live Action News)
• Pollster: We won't survey Va., Fla., or NC since Romney will win them (Hot Air)
• There was no protest at the Benghazi consulate as was initially reported (Yid w/Lid)
• Romney signs defaced with excrement in Va. (WashTimes)
• Actually, Alec Baldwin, Obama would be losing bigtime if he were white (Patriot Update)






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Chuck Norris: Reflections On True Patriotism






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Obama Shrugged



more cartoons





Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/...e#ixzz28xaUcHYg

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#792687 - 10/17/12 02:58 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
http://www.conservativedailynews.com/2012/10/vote-early-vote-often/

Perhaps this is how Todd thinks Obama will get to 270.

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#792688 - 10/17/12 03:05 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Anyone who trumpets up the trumped up claims of "fraud", of which there are very, very little actual instances, while supporting the actual disenfranshisment of thousands and thousands of actual American voters...is a fraud themselves...a fraudulent American.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792694 - 10/17/12 03:20 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
So strange that you have to show 3 forms of ID to get a job but not to vote. The trumped up disenfranshisment of thousands and thousands of actual American voters doesn't stand the light of day. The poor can't afford to get a drivers license or ID so how can they get a job without proper ID?
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#792698 - 10/17/12 03:35 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Jerry Garcia]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Irrelevant, Hank...are you saying you support Americans not getting to exercise their right to vote if they don't have whatever ID a state is asking for?

Please don't even pretend that you believe the intent of those laws is to protect the vote from fraud, and that it's not intended to do exactly what PA's Governor said it was for...to disenfranchise Democratic voters.

Even pretending otherwise for one second is a pile of horseshit, and you know it, and there is nothing...nothing...more un-American than trying to stop Americans from exercising the most fundamental American right, that of voting.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792705 - 10/17/12 03:46 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
larryb Offline
The Rainman

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2314
Loc: elma washington
i wonder who this 71% are. i have never been ask or talked to anyone that has been ask about this.

do anyone of you know a person who has been asked about this?
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
FREE PARKER DEATH TO RATS

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#792709 - 10/17/12 03:58 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Your fullofshit, and you know it, and it's obvious.

The intent...sole intent...is to stop Americans from voting...and those who support that are not Americans, they're assholes, and they know it, too, which is why they always react like children when called on it.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792727 - 10/17/12 04:58 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Horseshit.

You guys are confusing "it's easy to comply" with "why is the rule there at all?".

The rules are proposed to stop people from voting...even the proponents admit it when they think the cameras aren't watching (which also shows how stupid they are, the cameras are always watching).

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792729 - 10/17/12 05:13 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
The voter ID laws are purporting to solve a problem that doesn't even exist...which is why you have to ask "why are they attempting to pass them at all?".

Since there is no actual voter fraud, then what are they trying to accomplish?

Putting obstacles in the way of a fundamental American right like voting to solve a nonexistent problem should be distressing to every single American...well, Americans that believe in America and the rights that come with being an American, that is.

The rest would be better off in North Korea.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792732 - 10/17/12 05:19 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: larryb]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: larryb
i wonder who this 71% are. i have never been ask or talked to anyone that has been ask about this.

do anyone of you know a person who has been asked about this?


You already know its done thru polling. It would not surprise me, if it was higher. The minority shouts the loudest and always claims to represent the People

This is not about keep americans from voting. It to keep felons and illegal aliens from voting and keeping democrats from voting twice. In two or more states.

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#792733 - 10/17/12 05:22 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Todd.......
Quote:
there is no actual voter fraud



You looking for another sig line, fool?
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#792735 - 10/17/12 05:33 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ParaLeaks]
larryb Offline
The Rainman

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2314
Loc: elma washington
the biggest case of voter fraud seems to be in Florida bought and paid for by the republican party
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
FREE PARKER DEATH TO RATS

Top
#792738 - 10/17/12 05:38 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: Todd
Your fullofshit, and you know it, and it's obvious.

The intent...sole intent...is to stop Americans from voting...and those who support that are not Americans, they're assholes, and they know it, too, which is why they always react like children when called on it.

Fish on...

Todd


[Bleeeeep!]. Over 1000 felons were allowed to vote and they voted heavily for Al Franken, who won by 312 votes. Its the same reason democrats want convicts serving time, to be able to vote. Cause democrats are soft on crime. They dont care how they win. They have been convicted of voting in two states, buying votes, and of course supporting acorn with tax dollars to do their work for them. It makes me wonder how you were ever serious about the law.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/york-when-1099-felons-vote-in-race-won-by-312-ballots/article/2504163

You dont care how you win, its obvious, and you know it, and thats saying somethin. Only if your candidates were losing would you care. ID was required in Wa. So they have a voting problem in seattle or the county and the election manager moves to california, while they stick the rest of us, with vote by mail. I wait till the last day, so do thousand, because I dont want my ballot hidden away. Gregoire kept counting until she won. Out of state money paid for her recount. Win at all cost, the ends, justifies the means.

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#792739 - 10/17/12 05:41 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Do those convicted felons have proper ID?

Yes, they do...would they have been able to vote, law or no?

Yes, most of them would.

The rest of your post is utter garbage regurgitated directly from right wing fruitcake idiotology.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792740 - 10/17/12 05:42 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: larryb]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: larryb
the biggest case of voter fraud seems to be in Florida bought and paid for by the republican party


Perhaps you can link the independent recounts that show Gore won?

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#792743 - 10/17/12 05:47 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
He would have if tens of thousands of eligible voters, nearly all black, had not been disenfranchised by the State of Florida's Republican Party.

The fact that you're willing to accept a voter suppression law to solve a problem that doesn't even exist, but don't mind seeing tens of thousands of American voters having their votes thrown in the garbage shows just what an unAmerican jackass you are.

When I mentioned those who would be better off in North Korea, I was talking to you.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792747 - 10/17/12 05:55 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: larryb]
Us and Them Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 1263
Loc: Seattle
Those same disenfranchised voters would show I'd all day long for something free but cannot muster up an ID card to vote.
_________________________
Once you go black you never go back

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#792751 - 10/17/12 06:02 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: Todd
Do those convicted felons have proper ID?

Yes, they do...would they have been able to vote, law or no?

Yes, most of them would.

The rest of your post is utter garbage regurgitated directly from right wing fruitcake idiotology.

Fish on...

Todd


There is a process they have to go thru to get voting rights back. If they do that, I have no problem with it. Minnesota felons apparently were not qualified to vote.

The irony here is that, people who drop out of society and work off the clock, run from the law etc, probably wont vote. More than likely, they are the people who are used to fraudulently elect people and never know about it. According to some new reports, Both Obama and Clinton failed to qualify for the ballot in a couple areas. Thaddeus McCotter resigned for the same reason.

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#792754 - 10/17/12 06:10 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: Todd
He would have if tens of thousands of eligible voters, nearly all black, had not been disenfranchised by the State of Florida's Republican Party.

The fact that you're willing to accept a voter suppression law to solve a problem that doesn't even exist, but don't mind seeing tens of thousands of American voters having their votes thrown in the garbage shows just what an unAmerican jackass you are.

When I mentioned those who would be better off in North Korea, I was talking to you.

Fish on...

Todd


If you should not need ID, what prevents democrats from driving across state line and voting again?

Top
#792755 - 10/17/12 06:12 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3359
Loc: Island Time
Like activist judges they are only disenfranchised when they're prevented from illegally voting for the candidate the dems like.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#792772 - 10/17/12 07:14 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
I think that is important to not let non citizens vote. Non citizens voting dilutes my vote.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#792774 - 10/17/12 07:24 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Jerry Garcia]
AP a.k.a. Kaiser D Offline
Hippie

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 4450
Loc: B'ham
If you really want to stop "voter fraud", we should start with the paperless mystery machines.

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#792785 - 10/17/12 08:18 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Jerry Garcia]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
I think that is important to not let non citizens vote. Non citizens voting dilutes my vote.



http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/1..._medium=twitter

"The Ends, justifies the means."

Total govt control.

Top
#792787 - 10/17/12 08:25 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
The concept is simple and important to prevent fraud by requiring ID.....the devil's in the details. With so many absentee voters, perhaps a visit once during any year they want to vote to verify their ID before a ballot is mailed to them from the Auditor's Office might do it. Any other ideas?
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#792789 - 10/17/12 08:29 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ParaLeaks]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
If you support voter ID laws, and this is the extent of your concern over protecting the veracity and integrity of the vote, then you are a hypocritical unAmerican.

That's all there is to it.

Now if you happen to be offended by the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of voters (who just happen to be black, mostly, but just as American as you...), then I'll at least listen to your idea.

If you didn't have a problem with what happened in FL and think that voter fraud is a problem, then hit the beach and swim to North Korea...your style of democracy would fit in fine there.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792790 - 10/17/12 08:30 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Originally Posted By: Fast and Furious
Originally Posted By: Jerry Garcia
I think that is important to not let non citizens vote. Non citizens voting dilutes my vote.



http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/1..._medium=twitter

"The Ends, justifies the means."

Total govt control.



last paragraph....

California has the nation’s largest population of illegal immigrants—mostly from Mexico—and taxpayers take a huge hit to pay for their education, incarceration and medical care. In healthcare alone, Los Angeles County blows about $400 million annually on illegal aliens, according to figures published a few years ago by the Department of Social Services. Welfare and food stamps add another $440 million and incarceration $244 million, according to the agency’s figures.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#792794 - 10/17/12 08:38 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Originally Posted By: Todd
If you support voter ID laws, and this is the extent of your concern over protecting the veracity and integrity of the vote, then you are a hypocritical unAmerican.

That's all there is to it.

Now if you happen to be offended by the disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of voters (who just happen to be black, mostly, but just as American as you...), then I'll at least listen to your idea.

If you didn't have a problem with what happened in FL and think that voter fraud is a problem, then hit the beach and swim to North Korea...your style of democracy would fit in fine there.

Fish on...

Todd



Well then I'll guess you'll have to listen. I think ALL legal Americans should be able to vote....no exceptions. So the question is, "HOW" to make that happen. Not requiring some sort of verification is not an acceptable answer......balls in your court.

and leave fkn N Korea out of it....
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#792797 - 10/17/12 08:43 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ParaLeaks]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
The problem, Slab, is that voter ID laws are the "answer" to a problem that doesn't exist.

Since it doesn't exist, what's the point of having it?

What if 3 people who aren't supposed to vote get stopped by a voter ID law, but 3000 people who should be able to vote are stopped, too?

That's how it is with voter ID laws.

Know this...if you support voter ID laws you are not supporting making sure a bunch of illegals and felons don't vote...you are supporting that thousands of those who should be allowed to vote may not be able to do so.

What does more damage to the American way? A handful of people who shouldn't vote sneaking in and voting, or thousands of people who should vote being disenfranchised?

The answer is easy:

If you are an American, then you should make sure that everyone who is allowed to vote does, even if a few extras get in there.

If you are a supporter of the voter ID laws, then you are supporting making sure that thousands who should vote, don't, in the name of a few fraudsters.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792804 - 10/17/12 08:52 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13584
Todd,

The mindset that supports stopping a few fraudulent voters at the expense of disenfranchising many legitimate voters are usually OK with capitol punishment killing a few innocent convicts in the process of killing the guilty ones. The end justifies the means.

Sg

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#792807 - 10/17/12 08:55 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Salmo g.]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
In this case the "end" is keeping thousands of Democrats from voting for Democratic candidates at the altar of pretend voter fraud.

To pretend otherwise is to stick your head right up your ass.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792809 - 10/17/12 08:56 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13584
No argument there. What could be more important to 'Merica than preventing voters from electing Democrats?

Top
#792811 - 10/17/12 09:00 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
"If you are a supporter of the voter ID laws, then you are supporting making sure that thousands who should vote, don't, in the name of a few fraudsters."

If you are referring to voting this year, I'd agree.....time's too short.
If you are referring to some future date....then I don't agree. Why do you think that requiring ID is not feasible?
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




Top
#792813 - 10/17/12 09:05 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
gvbest Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 1078
Loc: Silverdale, WA
I read an article that stated UFO sightings occur more frequent than proven voter fraud. Although I agree some sort of proof of citizenship/eligibility to vote should be required just not sure how you could make it available to 100%.
_________________________
"A bad day fishing, is always better than a good day of yard work"

Top
#792825 - 10/17/12 09:48 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: gvbest]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
It's not that it's not feasible.

It's that there is no need for it. There is no measurable voter fraud...and by 'voter fraud', I mean voters who will vote, but would be stopped by the ID laws.

It's so few as to be "zero".

The downside, of course, is that thousands of actual legitimate voters will be stopped from voting.

Those voters are, by and large, Democratic voters.

And that is the point of the entire exercise.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792826 - 10/17/12 09:49 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Those pushing the laws, and those here supporting them, by and large, understand that.

If they feel good about what they are doing, then they should just do what the Pennsylvania Governor did and admit it...they are supporting the laws in order to disenfranchise Democratic voters.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792833 - 10/17/12 10:21 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: Todd
It's not that it's not feasible.

It's that there is no need for it. There is no measurable voter fraud...and by 'voter fraud', I mean voters who will vote, but would be stopped by the ID laws.

It's so few as to be "zero".

The downside, of course, is that thousands of actual legitimate voters will be stopped from voting.

Those voters are, by and large, Democratic voters.


Todd


Why would they be democrats. Poor? Uneducated? What states would they happen to live in?

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#792835 - 10/17/12 10:27 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Black, mostly, and in the case of Florida, have names somewhat similar to a convict (even if they themselves have never even had a parking ticket).

That's all it took to have tens of thousands of them scrubbed from the rolls, in an election year where several hundred votes in FL got GWB appointed President.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792836 - 10/17/12 10:27 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
If you're actually worried about voter fraud, and aren't deeply concerned about that...then like I said, you and your opinion would be better off in North Korea where that type of schit is the norm.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792844 - 10/17/12 11:02 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
fish_brah
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Todd
Black, mostly, and in the case of Florida, have names somewhat similar to a convict (even if they themselves have never even had a parking ticket).

That's all it took to have tens of thousands of them scrubbed from the rolls, in an election year where several hundred votes in FL got GWB appointed President.

Fish on...

Todd


Toff the ever apathetic one, the one that can understand the plight of the black man while he is casting a spey rod in northern bc. grow up mama's boy.


Edited by fish_brah (10/17/12 11:03 PM)

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#792846 - 10/17/12 11:13 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Fuckoff, asswipe.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


Top
#792848 - 10/17/12 11:24 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
IrishRogue Offline
Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1714
Loc: Yarrow Point
I'm against fraudulent voting. No question.

I'm also against disenfranchisement of voters, for any reason. No question about that either.

There's clearly a relationship between them---the more stringently we try to defeat fraudulent voting--the more people we disenfranchise... Let's for the sake of argument assume a fraudulent vote is roughly worth a disenfranchised vote. Now it's just a math problem...

If you defeat MORE fraud than the votes you disenfranchise--you get my support. At present the rules we're discussing seem like that's not true -- we're disenfranchising MORE people than the fraud we're preventing.

Those of you in support of these voter ID laws... Catchy phrases not-withstanding ... do you think a fraudulent vote prevented is worth MORE than a disenfranchised vote? 2x as much? 3x as much? What's your math on this?

B
_________________________
The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan

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#792856 - 10/17/12 11:51 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: IrishRogue]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
The math is simple, Brian...it's minorities and poor folks who will have the hardest time satisfying the voter ID laws, and they tend to vote Democratic...so yes, it's worth disenfranchising several thousand to prevent the mythical voter fraud.

If it were rich white guys being disenfranchised this would never be an issue.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792862 - 10/18/12 12:09 AM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: fish_brah
Originally Posted By: Todd
Black, mostly, and in the case of Florida, have names somewhat similar to a convict (even if they themselves have never even had a parking ticket).

That's all it took to have tens of thousands of them scrubbed from the rolls, in an election year where several hundred votes in FL got GWB appointed President.

Fish on...

Todd


Toff the ever apathetic one, the one that can understand the plight of the black man while he is casting a spey rod in northern bc. grow up mama's boy.



That is kinda harsh. Progressives are only required to talk about the plight of others before and after vacation.

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#792865 - 10/18/12 12:18 AM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16...;comm_ref=false

Some more "patriots"* looking to "protect the vote".

Wonder which party the perps support?

Fish on...

Todd

* By "patriots", I really mean fuckin assholes who should, like a few of the dimwits here, take their idea of Democracy and move to North Korea where it will fit in better.
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792874 - 10/18/12 12:54 AM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
They're not interested in fraud, or Democracy...they're interested in getting their guy in, at all costs...even if the cost is dishonesty and anti-Democracy.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792882 - 10/18/12 01:16 AM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: Todd
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/16...;comm_ref=false

Some more "patriots"* looking to "protect the vote".

Wonder which party the perps support?

Fish on...

Todd

* By "patriots", I really mean fuckin assholes who should, like a few of the dimwits here, take their idea of Democracy and move to North Korea where it will fit in better.


"Someone". Code for republican or maybe some moveon.org patriot or Occupiers, who wants to set up an October surprise. Lets google how many Teaparty members are in those states, then just narrow it down from there. Lets ask a great mind, like Ted Kaczynski.

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#792919 - 10/18/12 09:54 AM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Somethingsmellsf Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
Originally Posted By: AuntyM
Originally Posted By: blue water pro
Who do you eliminate with ID requirements? The elderly. Come on Hank - doesn't anyone old break a hip anymore? ID = old peoples vote - yeah they don't have smart phones in their pockets or purses. Grow a brain.


BULL SCHITT! The elderly are either ;

Rich and don't receive any government benefits, so you don't care if they vote or not... but they still have ID so they can prove who they are to anyone handling their money or...

Receiving SS or SSI and Medicare, in which case, they MUST provide ID at the time they applied for benefits. They also MUST provide ID to cash checks whether at a bank or a check cashing service. They have to have ID to pay for anything with a check too...

If you are an adult citizen in the US, you have ID of some sort. You have the ability to obtain a copy of your birth certificate and you have a SS#. If you have no ID to get a copy of either, affadavits from relatives are permitted. A drivers license or state ID is obtainable with those items. A passport also works, as well as military ID.

For social security recipients;

We can accept only certain documents as proof of identity. An acceptable document must be current (not expired) and show your name, identifying information (date of birth or age) and preferably a recent photograph. A birth certificate is not a form of identification. As proof of identity, Social Security must see one of the following primary evidence documents:

U.S. driver's license
U.S. State-issued non-driver identification card
U.S. passport
If you do not have one of the above specific documents or you cannot get a replacement for one of them within 10 days, we will ask to see another document, such as your:

Employee identification card/badge
Health insurance card or Medicaid card (not a Medicare card)
U.S. military identification
U.S. Government identification card
Certificate of Naturalization
Certificate of U.S. Citizenship
U.S. Indian Tribal card (Social Security has to approve as an acceptable ID)
Certified copy of a medical record
School identity card, certified record, or transcript (current year)
Life insurance policy

There is no BS excuse for any these ridiculous assertions of disenfranchisement. Getting to a place to obtain an ID is also not impossible or even difficult. It takes anywhere from one day, to no more than 90 days to get this done.

Anyone who doesn't have ID is either lying, not legally entitled to vote or not mentally competent enough to vote.


Why now the intense assertion that voters have two forms of ID? Why was this not brought up two years ago? Why not four twelve years ago?

I am all for having voters ID'd but this sure smacks of party politics when these things are brought up right at the goal line.

If this is not party politics then let's do it right and create national guidelines and set a precedent that can be followed and adhered to with enough time BEFORE an election, not some ad-hock mess and right before a national election.

Fishy


Fishy
_________________________
NRA Life member

The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.

I think name-calling is the right way to handle this one/Dan S

We're here from the WDFW and we're here to help--Uhh Ohh!




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#792949 - 10/18/12 11:00 AM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
It has nothing to do with how easy it is to get one.

It has to do with purporting to need one in order to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and the pushers of these laws know that they are pretending to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Add one check box on a list somewhere to get a gun and the right wing fruitcakes will scream bloody murder about their rights...make it harder to vote...to vote, in the United States of America...and those same right wing nuts think it's just fine.

Why? Well...because they're right wing nuts.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. And liars.
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#792979 - 10/18/12 12:57 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
IrishRogue Offline
Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1714
Loc: Yarrow Point
Is ANYONE in favor of this Voter ID stuff willing to say the ratio they believe is right? What ratio would you support of:

Fraudulent votes prevented vs. Disenfranchised voters as a result of increased scrutiny?

I'm 1:1. If you can convince me you're preventing more fraud than your disenfranchising, you got me.

What is your ratio?
_________________________
The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan

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#792987 - 10/18/12 01:16 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
AP a.k.a. Kaiser D Offline
Hippie

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 4450
Loc: B'ham
Originally Posted By: fish_brah
Toff the ever apathetic one, the one that can understand the plight of the black man while he is casting a spey rod in northern bc. grow up mama's boy.


I always love seeing someone trying to use "big words" and missing the mark. I'm guessing you meant "empathetic", brah.

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#792993 - 10/18/12 01:24 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13584
I'm kinda' where you are IR. I've not seen anything indicating voter fraud is a genuine issue.

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#793016 - 10/18/12 02:43 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Somethingsmellsf]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Its been an issue for a long time. Chicago is a joke. Nixon chose not to contest a couple states when he lost to kennedy.

Todd is just wrong on the subject. John Fund has written books on voter fraud. You dont get published on that subject, if its not happening. Did you forget about all the people from Acorn who went to jail?
http://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Elections-Voter-Threatens-Democracy/dp/1594032246

You can highlite the book and read a partial contents. Including contents and various subjects in the book online. Quite a bit.

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#793019 - 10/18/12 02:54 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D]
fish_brah
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: AP a.k.a. Kaiser D
Originally Posted By: fish_brah
Toff the ever apathetic one, the one that can understand the plight of the black man while he is casting a spey rod in northern bc. grow up mama's boy.


I always love seeing someone trying to use "big words" and missing the mark. I'm guessing you meant "empathetic", brah.



You're right the word should have been empathetic. Typing on the phone can be hard (auto correction) but thanks for your concern bro......

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#793020 - 10/18/12 02:55 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3359
Loc: Island Time
The only bullsh.it term thrown around on this thread that DOES NOT exist is disenfranchised.

Disenfranchised means "lazy, welfare POS". To think there are not mechanisms in place to allow those that WANT to vote is utter bullch.it.

So to answer IR's question I'm also a 1:1 and since "disenfranchised" does NOT exist and voter fraud does there is in fact a problem.

I see some fairly poor and lazy folks and I've yet to see one without some sort of ID.....ever...even when working EMS. Nowadays if an ID is not valid and someone wants a loan or to sell they'll go and get one if they want something bad enough.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#793021 - 10/18/12 03:06 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: IrishRogue]
blackmouth Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2572
Loc: right place/wrong time
Originally Posted By: IrishRogue
Is ANYONE in favor of this Voter ID stuff willing to say the ratio they believe is right? What ratio would you support of:

Fraudulent votes prevented vs. Disenfranchised voters as a result of increased scrutiny?

I'm 1:1. If you can convince me you're preventing more fraud than your disenfranchising, you got me.

What is your ratio?



Every fraudulent vote equals an opposing vote being cancelled out, in other words (disenfranchised), so your 1:1 ratio is baked in the cake.
_________________________
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Winston Churchill

"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.

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#793023 - 10/18/12 03:11 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: blackmouth]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
Year Total V.A.P. Total REG* % REG of V.A.P * Turnout % TO of V.A.P.
1960 109,672,000 63,854,789 * 58.22% 68,838,204 62.77%
1964 114,090,000 73,715,818 * 64.61% 70,644,592 61.92%
1968 120,328,186 81,658,180 * 67.86% 73,211,875 60.84%
1972 140,776,000 97,283,541 * 69.11% 77,718,554 55.21%
1976 152,309,190 105,024,916 * 68.96% 81,555,789 53.55%
1980 164,597,000 113,036,958 * 68.67% 86,515,221 52.56%
1984 174,468,000 124,184,647 * 71.18% 92,652,680 53.11%
1988 182,630,000 126,381,202 * 69.20% 91,594,693 50.15%
1992 189,044,500 133,821,178 * 70.79% 104,405,155 55.23%
1996 196,511,000 146,211,960 * 74.40% 96,456,345 49.08%
2000 205,815,000 156,421,311 * 76.00% 105,586,274 51.30%
2004 221,256,931 174,800,000 * 79.00% 122,295,345 55.27%
2008 230,782,870 TBD TBD 132,645,504 57.48%



40% don't even bother to vote.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#793032 - 10/18/12 03:45 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
AP a.k.a. Kaiser D Offline
Hippie

Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 4450
Loc: B'ham
Don't you think you're making it?

"If one instance of voter fraud is prevented, it is worth the cost of keeping 1000 legitimate voters from voting."

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#793176 - 10/18/12 10:26 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116

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#793262 - 10/19/12 02:19 AM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Fast and Furious]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116

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#793300 - 10/19/12 12:00 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I hope you're not suggesting we send someone out to vote on their behalf?

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#793308 - 10/19/12 12:16 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Democrats give people rides all the time. In NY, Rudy put a stop to the election day registration, after they found people were driving from poll to poll and doing it again.

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#793348 - 10/19/12 02:14 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
Looks like folks on the republican side aren't doing things on the up and up.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/201...&ocid=msnhp
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

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#793354 - 10/19/12 02:32 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Dogfish]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Dogfish
Looks like folks on the republican side aren't doing things on the up and up.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/201...&ocid=msnhp


For such an otherwise nice guy, Andy, I can't understand why it is that you hate 'Merica so much.

Marsha, you dingbat...you may notice the question mark at the end of the "question".

Or not.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#793359 - 10/19/12 02:42 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Where exactly did I say that?

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. I'll save you some time...I didn't.
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#793365 - 10/19/12 02:57 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Todd]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
Originally Posted By: Todd
Originally Posted By: Dogfish
Looks like folks on the republican side aren't doing things on the up and up.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/201...&ocid=msnhp


For such an otherwise nice guy, Andy, I can't understand why it is that you hate 'Merica so much.



You made me snort. Co-workers came running in to see what was wrong. wink
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

Top
#793369 - 10/19/12 03:11 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: Hankster
rofl


Good answer.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Glad I could help, Andy wink
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#793372 - 10/19/12 03:14 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Dogfish]
Jerry Garcia Offline



Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
It is not clear what motive Small might have had for throwing away the registration forms. Voters in Virginia do not register by party so there is no way to know whether the recovered registration forms were from Democratic or Republican voters.
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are

Growing old ain't for wimps
Lonnie Gane

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#793375 - 10/19/12 03:19 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Jerry Garcia]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
It's a good move, Hank...avoids having to admit you're fullofshit.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Don't worry, I'll continue to point it out for you. wink
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#793567 - 10/19/12 11:39 PM Re: Election Fraud [Re: ]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Vote for the man who promises least; he'll be the least disappointing.

I can't take credit for the quote, but I like it.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth.
If it's a crop, plant it.




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#793585 - 10/20/12 02:20 AM Re: Election Fraud [Re: Dogfish]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3116
Originally Posted By: Dogfish
Looks like folks on the republican side aren't doing things on the up and up.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/201...&ocid=msnhp


good. glad they were caught.

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