#808139 - 12/18/12 12:24 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: ParaLeaks]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3359
Loc: Island Time
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Found it....
I am Adam Lanza’s Mother It's time to talk about mental illness Liza Long
Friday’s horrific national tragedy—the murder of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in New Town, Connecticut—has ignited a new discussion on violence in America. In kitchens and coffee shops across the country, we tearfully debate the many faces of violence in America: gun culture, media violence, lack of mental health services, overt and covert wars abroad, religion, politics and the way we raise our children. Liza Long, a writer based in Boise, says it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.
Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”
“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”
“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.
We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.
At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.
Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.
The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”
“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”
His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”
That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”
“You know where we are going,” I replied.
“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”
I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”
Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—“Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…”
At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.
For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”
By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.
On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”
And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.
I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am James Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”
I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.
With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011.
No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”
I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."
If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.
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#808149 - 12/18/12 01:05 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: RowVsWade]
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It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
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Wow.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.
Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
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#808152 - 12/18/12 01:17 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: RowVsWade]
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The Tide changed
Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7083
Loc: Everett
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Read that the other day, a good read outlining the harsh realities people who have Ill loved ones have to face on a daily basis. We certainly need to devote more resources to helping people out with increased social services that give families a series of resources to help those in need. On the firearms side of this equation, I got tipped off about a story in something I was reading earlier today and looked it up. The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.
Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing an orange jumpsuit and a trenchcoat,[1] he made no attempt to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before leaving, intending to drive off campus and conduct another shooting at the nearby Pearl Junior High School.
However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car. Then Myrick demanded "Why did you shoot my kids?" to which Woodham replied, "Life has wronged me, sir."
For More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shootingThe thing I dont understand is the lack of a real solution and false sense of security some of the laws being crafted by the likes of Feinstein and Bloomberg. All of the Assault Weapons bans (or Weapons of mass destruction as I heard on CNN today ) call to only restrict the continued sales of these weapons, leaving millions of weapons in the hands of good and bad owners across the country. Lets say a full on ban on assault weapons passes.. then ask yourself, have we really solved the problem? Does this act do anything to prevent another tragedy? I don't think it does. I think we need more Mr. Myrick's out there.
_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"
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#808153 - 12/18/12 01:33 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: Salmo g.]
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Carcass
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 2190
Loc: Post Falls Idaho
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Even if it is a turning point, it won't be very effective, if at all. Events like this are statistical outliers, ranging somewhere between uncommon and rare. I think what is difficult for people to acknowledge and handle is that there is no solution for "preventing mass school murder shootings from ever happening again." What there is are some measures that might reduce the frequency and the extent of damage when they do occur. Changes to address the latter have already occurred. Police responders respond differently by attempting to directly engage the perp instead of waiting for the SWAT team to arrive. Schools devise strategies and drills to reduce the number of victims, which it appears the folks at Sandy Hook did.
Bans on guns labeled "assault weapons" and large capacity magazines would reduce their availability to the criminally motivated over time, probably measured in decades, but instant results would be elusive.
Meanwhile it would be of greater benefit for folks to come to terms with the notion that the certainty they seek is not attainable, at any cost. And society is always concerned about cost. Reactionary measures, like TSA and Homeland Security feel good window dressing, as was done post-9/11, is not an effective alternative. I agree Salmo, statistical outliers. However, so are airline crashes. Low fequency, but when they do happen a lot of life is lost, but no crash has captured the emotion this incident has. Airline crashes are investigated thoroughly and from what is learned from the investigation, it is transformed into new regulations and improvements into airline safety; so much so, airline safety is at an all time high. So why not the same attitude with school or other mass shootings? Why hasn't the investigations into these events been transformed into additonal regulations and safety improvements? I know some changes have been made with schools training for these events, but lets face it most change has been pretty much on the surface and more can and needs to be done. My point is that it's time to get buy the gun rights arguement and lets get to work with the same zeal we have for improving airline safety and put everything on the table and yes, guns are part of that.
_________________________
"90% of Life is just showing up and doing the work". Tred Barta Sr.
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#808165 - 12/18/12 08:28 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: Sky-Guy]
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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 9013
Loc: everett
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Read that the other day, a good read outlining the harsh realities people who have Ill loved ones have to face on a daily basis. We certainly need to devote more resources to helping people out with increased social services that give families a series of resources to help those in need. On the firearms side of this equation, I got tipped off about a story in something I was reading earlier today and looked it up. The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.
Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing an orange jumpsuit and a trenchcoat,[1] he made no attempt to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before leaving, intending to drive off campus and conduct another shooting at the nearby Pearl Junior High School.
However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car. Then Myrick demanded "Why did you shoot my kids?" to which Woodham replied, "Life has wronged me, sir."
For More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shootingThe thing I dont understand is the lack of a real solution and false sense of security some of the laws being crafted by the likes of Feinstein and Bloomberg. All of the Assault Weapons bans (or Weapons of mass destruction as I heard on CNN today ) call to only restrict the continued sales of these weapons, leaving millions of weapons in the hands of good and bad owners across the country. Lets say a full on ban on assault weapons passes.. then ask yourself, have we really solved the problem? Does this act do anything to prevent another tragedy? I don't think it does. I think we need more Mr. Myrick's out there. However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car. If the school is now a "gun free zone" the assistant principle would be charged with a crime. This happened at Clackamas Mall but you never hear the whole story http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2012/12/security_guard_said_he_had_rob.html
Edited by Jerry Garcia (12/18/12 03:14 PM)
_________________________
would the boy you were be proud of the man you are
Growing old ain't for wimps Lonnie Gane
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#808239 - 12/18/12 02:03 PM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: Jerry Garcia]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3091
Loc: Bothell, Wa
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Read my sig line.........................
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler
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#808260 - 12/18/12 03:54 PM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: Idaho Mike]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 1034
Loc: In a drift boat...
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The focus should be on preventative help and counseling to help those with mental health issues, not changing the rights of citizens. A fast food approach on trying to solve a greater crisis will only leave you with more of these kind of situations.
_________________________
YOUR MOTHER IS A TULE!
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#808266 - 12/18/12 04:17 PM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: Paul Smenis]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3091
Loc: Bothell, Wa
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Lots of money will be spent.
Lots of politicians will get a job.
Lots of politicians will lose a job.
Lots of ex-politicians will get a better paying job as a lobbyist.
Lots of guns will be sold.
Lots of drugs will be sold to minors.
Lots of kids will graduate from high school with good memorizing skills and absolutely no critical thinking skills.
Lots of media folks will sell lots of advertising (mostly violent movies and video games and a whole lot of drugs).
And occasionally kids will be killed by kids using guns.
Repeat.................................
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler
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#808316 - 12/18/12 07:23 PM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: BroodBuster]
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redhook
Unregistered
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Bushmaster is being sold... http://www.king5.com/news/Cerberus-to-sell-gun-company-that-makes-Bushmaster-184017361.htmlnot everyone agrees with me, but thats the great thing about America, i can have different views of yours and still be entitled to that... it has nothing to do with the type of guns in this situation, nothing at all, all of them would have been killed regardless of what weapon was used, think about the scenario, yes, its brutal, but its what my logic is telling me what happened, and the Police will NEVER tell you or i if this is actually the case... the adults in the office, i dont know what i think, other than they were shot, the kids on the other hand, its clear as day... the medical examiner said that they had "multiple gunshot wounds, to an extent of damage he had never seen before", well, what are the odds that this kid walked into the class room, and stratigically picked off each student and the 1 teacher in the room with multiple shots as they sat at thier desk and noone moved or interupted him while that process to place? there isnt, it would be nearly impossible... what i think happened (just my thoughts), is that the kids were huddled in a corner or something and he entered and started firing into the pile of people in the corner.. that would explain the multiple wounds, and the kids behind the first kids would sustain more damage than normal, as the bullets would have been expanded after passing through the first victims... my point with that is, it has nothing to do with it being an AR, the same if not more damage could have been inflicted with an 8 shot 12 guage with 00 buck or even slugs, a Marlin tube magazine .22 rifle could have done the same, albeit with much less damage, but still deaths occuring.., or a lever action rifle such as a 1894 Winchester, or, the Henry repeater they found in the trunk of his moms car that he drove.. yes, there would be reload time possibly, but it doesnt take that long to load a shotgun if you know how to handle your weapon... he obviously knew how to handle the weapons he had... you could walk into a school, store, ect with 2 Colt 1851 Navy pistols, and kill 12 people with them without reloading... its not the guns, its the person behind the guns, clip/mag size is redunant as well, when people do these things, they are not gearing up for full on warfare (although it seems as so), so it wouldnt make much difference if they walked in with 3 30 round clips, or 9 10 round clips except weight, which really isnt all that much... a person that is going to so something as horrific as this, will do it with whatever they can get thier hands on, and its not always guns that people use, Ted Bundy never used a gun, sometimes he would use Lamps, Logs, and other crap around the area of which he was comitting his crimes, including his bare hands... people with mental illnesses should get FREE healthcare for that, not free healthcare in general, but free for their diseases of mental illness.. but the US is too busy sending billions in aid to Pakistan each year than to take care of its own people, crazy or not... shame..
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#808328 - 12/18/12 07:57 PM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: ]
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It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
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The fact that your wife is the safety valve for keeping that kid from harming himself and others is a disgrace.
As long as we pretend that those in need of serious help and medication can be taken care of by schools and parents, these kind of events will continue. I understand the implications behind the constitutional concerns, but the constitutional rights of more than 20 people were extinguised last week, and it's time to start talking about how idiotic it is to save some tax money by putting the public at large in jeopardy, and not treating those who need treatment.
This particular kid's parents are probably incapable of helping him, as is your wife. He's a ticking tinme bomb we're going to pretend doesn't exist.
We're just reaping what we've sown for the last 20 years.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.
Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
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#808345 - 12/18/12 09:22 PM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: ]
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It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
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I completely understand her position, Chuck, but what if the change in the world is that she gets killed and he gets put in prison for it? She knows the kid better than I do, though, so she might know something I don't.
I think once that kid is 10 or 12, he'll be a real threat.
I can't blame the parents, either. Chances are, they are as helpless as the mother of the genius psychopath kid in dealing with the situation.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.
Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
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#808356 - 12/18/12 10:26 PM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: ]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 1263
Loc: Seattle
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Peace and love forever.
Edited by Tom Joad (12/18/12 11:03 PM)
_________________________
Once you go black you never go back
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#808363 - 12/18/12 10:43 PM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: Us and Them]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 3359
Loc: Pasco Bulldog country
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Wow....This thread was started in good faith & a possible path forward.
It's too bad this one couldn't break free.
I'm betting more people have debated whether to or not too....myself included.
Not pointing fingers....just saying.
Sad.
Mf
_________________________
Born again with IRON MAIDEN!
"Go hard, today Can't worry the past, coz that yesterday". GO COUGS!!!
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#808368 - 12/19/12 12:01 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: Magicfly]
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WINNER
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
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Chuck......sounds really serious......and dangerous. Maybe it's time for a "what if"
What if your wife gets an eye put out by this out-of-control kid? Is it going to matter who's at fault? Will ANYONE think it was worth it? Obviously your wife cares, but it also sounds like she is powerless to change this kid.....is it not better to work with receptive kids rather than waste time that could be used to help others in need?
tough deal, for sure.
_________________________
Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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#808375 - 12/19/12 12:30 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: ParaLeaks]
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Poodle Smolt
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
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Back to the Adam Lanza kid.
As I stated before, information on his mental stability was due to come out, and it has. Apparently his mom was on the verge of taking two actions.
1. Was to have him involuntarily committed. 2. Was to have him and herself move to Washington State to attend some school that she thought would provide him some help.
What happened at this school was horrific beyond all comprehension. There is no denying that. My heart aches for those parents, and the families of the adults killed, but mostly for the souls of those 20 young kids. I am not a religious person, but these deaths have impacted me greatly. I tear up every time I think about it.
What I am having an issue is a change in any legislation or laws that affects the rights of sane people because of the actions of a deranged human being. There is no pussyfooting around that issue here. Apparently he took afront to being involuntarily committed, and so he set the actions in motion that we are all aware of.
To say that this mother loved her child is an understatement, but she knew his potential, or at least she thought she did, so she had started to take steps to keep the public at large safe. It seems she was just a little late in her actions.
Chuck, we had a child at the school my youngest goes to who is as disruptive as the one your wife deals with, or more. We have had discussions with the parents on a School Board to parent level stating that basic education is what the school is responsible for, but that it is not the responsibility of the staff to take regular beatings in the interest of educating a single child. There really is no educating this child to be brutally honest, so after a number of bruises, and bleeding wounds, we went through the school's standard disciplinary process and expelled the child.
Some children, very very few, are damaged beyond all repair, and regardless of what you do, or how much you love them, they will not assimilate. Period.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"
They call me POODLE SMOLT!
The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.
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#808379 - 12/19/12 01:06 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: cupo]
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Poodle Smolt
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
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Maybe some of these kids should have been taken for a walk in the woods and never come back. It's cold, but sometimes the greater good should get priority. Tell people he went to live with an uncle or something. I know you are being sarcastic, but some folks do not belong in the general population. I am not advocating eugenics in any way shape or form.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"
They call me POODLE SMOLT!
The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.
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#808403 - 12/19/12 09:59 AM
Re: Turning Point?
[Re: ]
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Spawner
Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 908
Loc: Idaho
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Wow, this is the most civilized gun control thread I have seen ages. I'm kinda speachless..
BTW I agree with AP and Todd for the most part on this issue..
JFC the Mayans were right.
_________________________
Facts don't care about your feelings..
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