lol, there were about 15 boats in the bay over the weekend, not quite the "bumper boats" mentioned earlier, and the fishing wasn't great. A vivid imagination is nice, but it's not always realistic.

The bay's not usually as crowded as the river, and I bet that's especially true now. The bay's not as much of a concern anyway, because it's got lots of room for fish to move around and cooler water. I'm mostly concerned about the lower river.

Could be plenty of reasons the fishing was slow over the weekend. Full moon, east wind, hot weather, dour fish; take your pick of bad indicators. I sincerely hope it wasn't slow because the early run is underperforming or has already been overharvested, but I kind of doubt that. Maybe just crappy fishing. I know the guy you fish with doesn't like those big tides....

i'll tell u why its slow down in the Aberdeen area.. theres been nets in 10 or 11 days out of 14

Not bad FF and rather good job of laying all cards on the table.

A low boats in the bay should be expected because the major build moved upstream a bit back and your fishing on what swims by you that day. Fishing is back to normal numbers for Coho.

For the Chehalis and the Chehalis only this is not about conservation but about the optics of large numbers of Coho stopped and large numbers of people pursuing them. The projected wild Coho escapement modeled for the season is 58,284 with the escapement goal being 28,506. Without the QIN numbers one cannot be sure but the NT commercials harvested over 1100 Coho in 7 hours on the back side of the big movement of Coho. This says we are on track numbers wise in fact with the prior Coho movement possibly Coho are performing better than expected. Chinook are a concern but as someone who worked to save the Satsop Chinook a pure conservation shut down is again 100% grade A BS! The tribes daily harvest more than any Rec impact for the whole bloody year!

This closure is about the optics of a large number of fish and fishers coming together in combat fishing. It violates the purest view of floating the foggy river seeking a salmon or hiking in to a river in the natural setting to get a fish. Well folks that world mostly left 40 years ago! Now we have way more people, fewer fish, and less opportunity.

Conservation closure in the Chehalis is as I said pure BS. This is about the optics of combat fishing pure and simple. You want bad optics watch a drift net fleet as it fishes. Now I guarantee that fish with low flows spawn lower in the river but how many fish would be impacted? 1 or 100 or 1000 and does this endanger Coho escapement, I think not. Chinook now maybe yes but it must not be of concern because the QIN are still hauling them away.

So under the WDFW totally false narrative for the Chehalis Basin closed for conservation the reality is it is the BIAS of WDFW toward the inriver fisher. All they have done is screw over the working family that cannot afford a boat and gets to fish around work a few days a week from the bank. It is discrimination toward those of limited financial means to the benefit of commercial fisheries and those who have the means to put down 50 to a 100 thousand for a boat.

Now right out front I DO NOT blame the QIN at all. QIN staff are paid to represent the QIN fishers not baby sit NT fisheries be it Rec or commercial and do a good job of it. For the Rec fishers that is the job of tax payer and license funded WDFW staff. Frankly from my view the tribe has to be damn near dying laughing at this fiasco! This mess is about Mr. Losee and Mr. Cunningham stepping in to manage the second largest watershed in the state which by appearances their knowledge of is limited to say the least. This is about elitisms, bias toward inriver fishers, and incompetence.

After all that I have been told and do not doubt that fish are spawning down the lower reaches and this is normal in dry years. Wait until the Chum show! That said would angling endanger escapement and again the QIN and NT commercials will take move fish in a set than the bank angler in a year under these circumstances. As I said it is discrimination and bias not conservation.

One last thing for those who do not know me my home is 20 feet off the river in tide water, I have a dock that can moor boats, and I have two boats. So my objections are not about me loosing opportunity but about bias and discrimination by WDFW toward the inriver fisher. Who by definition as a general rule lack the means to purchase a boat or the time from work to fish otherwise. When it gets down to catching a fish you must purchase a boat, or go on a charter boat as Phil Anderson suggested to a citizen, or be a commercial fisher then frankly the system is not broken but has descended into the world of bias and discrimination again/still.

FF go after Mr. Losee and Mr. Cunningham as it is my belief that they are the prime actors in this fiasco. I would not leave the Director out either as it is his job to insure rogue staff are not let to run amuck. Gov was a nice touch but I doubt you get pass the secretary other than thank you for sharing your thoughts but let fly anyway.

Great letter FF.

So, if it starts raining on the 20th/21st, how fast do they open the rivers? Certain amount of rain? Looking to see rivers hold at a particular CFS? They sure can pivot fast for a closure, but what about opening things back up.

I have been hearing through the grapevine, unless it’s 2”-3”…they will likely just wait until November 1st.

My hope is (kinda lacking that right now) is we get rain the 20th-23rd and they open it up on the 24th and give us a little bit of October to fish. I’m sure they aren’t clamoring to open the rivers up.

I feel like we should open a betting line on when the tributaries will open. I’m putting some money on November 1st.

Long range forecast says your right! Looks to be around 28th of Oct. or the 1st week of Nov. Nov. looks to be one of the wettest in a while and it could have few fishing days. It is waiting time.

Make no mistake; the early run is over for the in-river crowd. The way they communicated the conditions for re-opening, no action will be taken until it's clear fish are moving normally. As you know very well, the day "it" happens, the entire run will bolt for hatcheries and spawning gravel, and by the time they can publish a rule change, nothing but boot chums will be in the fishable water until whenever the late run shows. WDFW knows this, too, and that's why they are currently pimping out your portion and mine of the early run to people in the tidewater.

https://www.vzmessages.com/ol/37d5d6ffeb61fa0c7f6704a323bd642cf68faaf9

Please watch and this is 44 seconds down stream from Schafer Park above the confluence of East Fork and Middle Fork. This video was taken in the last 7 days. No fish moving they say! Again and again pure BS.

Yup. Water temp finally got there, flows be damned. Those aren't great numbers, but they're definitely salmon on the move! Fun to see. Even if we can't fish for 'em.

Update: The video was shot last Tuesday the 11th of October. Oh almost forgot, look at the color of the fish in the video and you will see nothing but silver.

Wasn't it L. P. Berra who said you could learn a lot by watching? Sure looked like those fish were not kegged up.

F4B. Obviously our definition of bumper boats is different. I generally fish during the week and the weekends IMO have been a [Bleeeeep!] show. I get it, beautiful weather great fishing, only game in town. Now with the nets in it's also obvious the fishing has dropped off. Makes sense huh?
Flea. Great write. Really curious what if any response you get. Please share.
Cool vid! Just goes to show you how sneaky they are in low water. Am surprised that movement in bright sunlight? Usually most movement in low light or darkness. If it were open run up to the head of the hole and cast.

I'm sure the observations from before the closure were right. At the time they announced the closure, there were definitely NOT many fish moving (though there were definitely some, to include an absolute chromer I caught and released while fishing for cutts above Schafer Park). Still, this is what usually happens (no fish moving one day; many moving the next), and it teaches us that flow is less important than water temperature in determining when salmon think it's "time." Makes absolute sense, if you think about it. After all, they can't sense water volume....

Okay... so now fish are moving (with video evidence). Has anyone informed the Region 6 office of this fact? They said in their announcement the rivers would remain closed until either the flows increased or the fish started moving. They're moving, so we should start pressing them to reopen the rivers this Saturday. If they don't respond to that, we'll have more ammo for nastygrams...

Haven't sent my email yet. Waiting to get all the facts in. I suppose now, I need to add something about the fact the fish are in, yet the rivers are still closed, but before we do that, to be fair, I think we should contact Region 6 and let them know fish are being observed moving up the Satsop. At least give them a chance to do right and open it back up before we launch an assault. I'll do that today...

Just sent this to Region 6. We'll see....



Video evidence of bright, moving fish from yesterday, below Schafer Park, was shared on a local fishing forum. I can share if you're interested, but my guess is someone in your office has seen it already or will see it today.

Your office's closure announcement said the rivers would remain closed until either the flows improved or the fish started moving. Well, they're moving. I imagine you can't just take my word for it, but it would be a great gesture if you guys could get a field observer out there to confirm, so maybe we can get back to fishing this weekend....

If that's not going to happen, please let me know the reason. The non-boating majority is entitled to know the truth about why they are being denied the right to fish they paid for, same as the gillnetters and boat crowd in the bay and mainstem Chehalis....

Thank you,

Unless you have rain fish move and finally stage. Now why they pick a location is beyond me but the behavior is always present. For around 10 years it was the pump house and fishing you had fish jumping and rolling all around you. Those fishing waited for incoming tide for " fresh biters." When fish mob up they do not stay there until rain ( well some do ) but once the group builds in numbers new fish join the group as others move up. That pattern of behavior is always present minus rain and moderate rain will move them but never to dry spawning areas. I have seen years that above Schafer it is Coho everywhere but you will find few fish at Bingham hatchery just a few miles away.

A friend of mine always asks why the fish do this and I always reply fish will do what fish do. Many folks have this vision that Chehalis salmon just move upstream and that is just plain wrong. They move up for whatever the reason on their own timeline this year being an example with this years massive Coho movement in mid September and these fish were almost two months from spawning for heavens sake. They stopped at the upper end of tidewater and into the bottom of the tribs and now well down stream to South Monte. Will they stay there is the question and some do but the for the majority it is once the numbers increase and group them up new fish move in ( biters ) and others in the group move up. They do not storm up the river but move some and move again and again. They simply work their way upstream waiting for spawning conditions.

This behavior is really visible with Chum and on the Satsop they seem to like one place for a few years ( Cook area is one area easy to view from the road on the bluff ) sometimes down low on the river sometimes even above Schafer Park. I do not know for sure but water temperatures seem to have an cause and effect on the movement but in the end it is about the fishes comfort zone and time remaining to spawn. All that said they will continue to work there way upstream be it slowly and for the East Fork Satsop will stop mostly a mile two below Bingham down to Schafer Park.

This pattern of behavior is constant just as is the stampede when it rains enough water up spawning areas. This closure was ill-conceived, not well thought out, showed that lack of knowledge of the Chehalis Basin by senior staff, and is clearly discriminatory toward inriver fishers minus means to spend many thousands of dollars on a boat.

Conservation my ass this is about bias toward the inriver Rec that by its very nature is discriminatory toward bank fishers and folks of modest means. QIN & NT commercials are fishing as is tidewater and bay and as I said if the issue is Chinook the inriver Rec impacts for the year would not be what QIN sell in a day.

Almost forgot I sent the video to staff, Mr. Losee, the Director and the Commission.

I was seeing fish just below that on the 1st (3/4 of a mile below the middle fork). Moving and even biting in the morning. This is getting ridiculous. Fish are here, water temps are down (cold damp mornings every day) they need to let us fish.


Some guys weren’t getting them to bite and assumed they weren’t there. I walked about 6 miles of different stretches and found willing fish (coho) in all of them. It also pays to be a good bait fisherman with really good bait

Water temps will really take a bite down! Above or close to 60 degrees you have give them a reason to bite. If every fish that was in that massive Chehalis movement was a biter I mean like lord we could sunk our boats minus limits. That said at 64 and change water temperature it did make things difficult! It was 45 degrees last night at my house and water temperatures are slowly falling, thank god!

That pump house hole (more of a run) was dynamite when the fish used to stage there. You could almost count on a few new biters in that run every day. Best fly water I've ever fished for coho. They just flat bit flies in that stretch...even better than spinners. Nobody was really fishing jigs in those days, but it probably would have been good for that, too.

I have observed the same; when flows are low, fish will still move and stage, as long as the water's cool enough. When the flows are better, it spreads the fish out better and keeps them moving (and biting better), but for sure, there's no magic moment that occurs every year to move the fish; seems to be different factors from year to year....

Yup FF fish do what fish do.

To conservation some numbers for all to chew on. The modeled 2022 anticipated harvest for Chehalis Chinook look like this and this is H&W combined.

Alaska harvest 11617
British Columbia harvest 4637
WA Coast Treaty and Non Treaty marine harvest 291

Terminal returns 14957
QIN harvest 3566
Rec impacts bay inriver 567
Chehalis tribal ( charged to state share ) 257

So what this says is AK & BC Chinook harvest will take more Chehalis Chinook than cross the bar at Westport. The QIN will take a good number with the Chehalis tribe ( which again is charged to the state share ) taking a modest number. The Rec bay predicated impact is 234 with C&R and freshwater inriver is 333 for fresh water C&R impacts or dead fish if you prefer that description.

Soooooo ...... look at these numbers and explain in clear precise english what are the conservation concerns? The Rec lost trebles hooks, barbed hooks and are limited to catch and release mortalities for Chinook. Now we shut down the fresh water river fishers for conservation? Are you kidding me! When WDFW mentions conservation one should NOT blindly except this as being truthful as that definition is designed generate a response driven by by oh my god the poor fish! The reality is the total disdain and bias that WDFW has for fresh water fisheries let alone the bank fisher. This guys is not my opinion but read the numbers above it is simple fact! Conservation my a--!!!!!