Last Friday I saw more elk than ever in one day, including along a 20 - 25 minute path I take from my car to the river. Went opher-two, but that's not what this is about.

Sunday I hoped to better my fishing result and took the same path again, only this time there's a dead spike elk laying nearby. I have pictures, but I don't have the same software to downsize them on this computer. Anyway, it looks like some critter done him in and chewed a lot on the rib cage and one hind leg, said leg laying about a half dozen feet from the carcass.

Two questions, who done it? That is, what predator, a cougar? I thought cougars mainly kill deer and prefer venison above other prey. Lacking wolfs on the OP, could coyotes have done it? The elk doesn't have a ripped open neck and jugular, which is what I'd have expected for a cougar kill.

Second question, I thought elks shed antlers in February and March, and this guy has 8" spikes still firmly in place. Did he not get the memo, or does shedding occur over a longer time period?

Nuther interesting thing is that on my return from river to car late that afternoon, the carcass was still there, but that hind leg was no where to be found. Somebody visited between my coming and going and hauled it off a good long ways.

Sg

1. Probably a cougar. Redhook would know for sure.

2. Big bulls shed in March, sometimes in late February. More mass on the pedicle causes large racks to release earlier. Something about a simple machine at work, lever and....? Redhook would know.

No tracks?

Could have been hit by a car, sick, or foddered himself like 2-many said and thats where he died and was scavenged upon. Maybe an early bear was the scavenger. Elk, deer, caribou, moose, and prong horn are all deer family so there meat is all called venison (just fyi).

The only tracks around that I could identify were elk and fisherman, but I'm no Redhook. Mostly forest ground cover, except in places where the elk have pounded in a dirt/mud trail. I didn't do a close or thorough inspection of the frontal neck area. It was still covered with all the dark brown throat mane they have. A lot, a whole lotta' hair removed from back, sides, and hindquarter. (I did think to myself what part should a remove a little patch from for tying elk hair caddis fly patterns.) Gut is open, and it's full of grass, so I wonder if the diet change either weakened it enough for cougar or coyotes to make easy work of him, or the gorging just killed him outright.

No farms in the area, but excellent elk habitat. Forage seems abundant all winter, except maybe when covered by the infrequent snow. It's the OP, and elk are thick as rabbits all around there.

Funny how I think I'm generally alone in the woods, with just deer, elk, and birds around. Only once, over a decade ago while I was hiking near Quinault did I feel or sense that there was a cougar around. I never saw it or any sign, but I had this feeling that hadn't occurred before or since. So now I come upon a fresh kill and the only feeling I had was, "hey, there's a dead elk that wasn't here the other day." Now what was that thread about the best carry weapon for cougars?

At least it makes sense that the light weight spikes would be the last to shed.

That sure sounds like canine.

They tend to eat starting at the hind quarters by first working their way into the body cavity. And the scattered pieces screams pack behavior.

Cats tend to put some effort into dragging it off into the bushes and covering it with debris.

My last trip over that way we saw the same thing. Although the only scavengers we saw where ravens and eagles.

Probably just up and died...and then coyotes or some other smaller critters gave him a few chews.

The cougar-kilt elk I've seen are torn up pretty bad and are in a big pool of blood and gore.

Fish on...

Todd

Could be couger but you can be sure that if you have seen it most likely a few yotes have too. The Elk on the OP have been eating well for awhile now so I would be thinking it was wounded or a big ol kitty played a part in it.

Don't rule out a bear.

How did his hooves look? Or what was left of them.

I don't usually worry about the 4 legged critters much when I'm Fishin unless its up north, but when I stumble across a kill no matter were I am. I don't linger.

sounds more like a wolf kill. Don't rule it out just because its on the OP. They are planting them all over the state right now.

I read of plans to plant wolves on the OP a few years back.
I know of 4 breading pairs planted a few weeks ago at St.Hellens in addition to at least 1 pack already in the area.

Kris

I'd love to know more about any wolves being planted in the St Halens area. Been hearing, and hunting, that area for years. I've never seen any signs of wolves despite the rumors. Pictures or documentation would be appreciated.

Re OP wolves. The states wolf mitigation plan calls for OP to have wolves re-located there but only from a pack already in the state and after 15 packs have been established naturally in the state. Since it is the one place that would be very difficult for them to naturally migrate to they've planned on the re-locate. With the morning news that a 10th pack has been confirmed south of Wenatchee we are approaching that point in time sooner rather than later. Also wolves on the OP would be pretty easy to see since the elk live on pastures off hwy 101 or on the rivers. If what Salmo G saw was a wolf kill the rest of the herd wouldn't be standing around grazing away peacefully.

As I stated above it does sound a lot like canines but a couple of labs could scatter leg bones just as easy as coyotes or wolves.

Not ruling out a bear, but bears generally leave sign of their presence, and I saw nothing to suggest a bear. The lack of damage to the neck and throat and the massive wounds to the flank, hindquarter, and azz suggest coyotes as more likely than a cougar based on some of the posts above.

There was no obvious sign of poor health or lack of winter nutrition, but if the switch to winter browse to suddenly abundant grass can be devestating to the digestive system, I can see how this suddenly weakened spike could have been vulnerable to coyotes.

Hooves looked perfect, to the extent I examined them, which wasn't a lot. I'm near certain the spike wasn't hit by a car given its location. It's possible it had been wounded by a poacher, since I couldn't see enough of the carcass to verify whether it had been shot.

Dcrzfitter,

I've seen wolf kills in YNP, and if this was a wolf kill, then it must have been only one wolf. Not that much was consumed, as of Sunday afternoon. I'm skeptical about your assertions that "they" are planting wolves anywhere in the state unless you have some clear, cogent, and convincing evidence. Otherwise you sound like you're part of the wolf conspiracy theory.

Howsabout a bigfeets or man-bear-pigs?

Stam,

OK, the coyote theory of scavaging or finishing off a sick spike sounds pretty plausible. However it'd be cool to think I was sharing the same game trail with an apex predator cat.

I've seen black bear get an elk calf, and I suppose coyotes could do the same. Bringing down a spike sized elk would be impressive. Yeah, I also think BU is slightly off with his opossum theory.

About the fish? What's to say? Opher-two, same score as Friday. I'm now Opher-five in three trips. I'm going full bore ascot now, and just touching the fish and not hanging on to 'em for more than just a few seconds. Seems more sporting, ya' know.

Sg

I saw a raghorn 5x5 bull in a herd of about 20 elk just past the town of Cougar on Monday, a guy I work with saw a spike in Woodland today, still a few around.

In January of last year a relative was haunting elk in Winston unit with a friend who had a special cow tag. They came across 5 wolf tracks in the snow. They put a 300 win mag shell in the tracks and took pics. WDFW even admitted they were wolf tracks and said possibly wolf Haven had released some. LOL

2 years ago a friend had a late season archery cow tag for Toutle. He was in some timber with his friend from Alaska when a small pack started howling near them. His friend has been around wolves his entire life and without any question knew what they were.

A coworker who is from SW Wa told me he has a close relative who was personally involved in the planting of the 4 breeding pairs recently.

The nay sayers can say what they want. That's cool with me but these are credible people. I've talked to others who have seen wolves on the west side but their stories are a little iffy.

Kris

Kris

I'd sure like to know who this person works for who supposedly "planted" the 4 pairs of wolves. That would be illegal. The state did not do it, that's for sure. And they never have done it. The wolves in this state came here on their own.

Also, to whoever posted earlier in the thread about plans to move wolves to the Olympic Peninsula. I don't believe that is true. The WDFW wolf plan calls for 15 breeding pairs of wolves in the state. There are three zones: Eastern Washington, Northern Cascades, and South Cascades/Northwest Coast. The way I understand the wolf management plan, there is no requirement that there be any wolves west of the Cascades. There simply needs to be a certain number of breeding pairs in each zone. If there are the necessary breeding pairs in the South Cascades, then the requirement is met. No need for wolves on the Olympic Peninsula or the Willapa Hills (or anywhere in Western Washington.)

Last comment, I have trail cam pictures of three bulls, one is a 5x8, one a 5x6, and one a spike. The 5x6 lost his antlers about 2 weeks ago. The 5x8 and spike have not, as of 3/29, the last time I checked the camera.

A few pictures:

Ape,

I hope you are right. I really do. But looking at how the wolf huggers have planted and lied about wolf numbers in other states I don't believe a word of what they say.

Time will tell. In 3-5 years my kids will be old enough to start hunting and I really hope we have something to hunt other than birds and predators.

Kris

Ape,
I pretty much agree with everything you've said.

Re OP and re-planting wolves. The state WMP does allow for relocation within the state but not from any other state or country. I made the leap on my own that that clause was in there specifically for OP seeing as there is a very low chance they can migrate there on their own.