#1058418 - 12/18/21 11:31 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Actual, the "problem" for coho and chum is relatively easy to solve, or at least develop a solution that protects fish and offers sustainable fisheries. You start inside with the individual stream escapement (goal for pre-season) and then sequentially add catch by all users in that stream. Then keep building out to the Bar. You stop adding fisheries when one stream's harvest is taken.
Problem is, putting the fish first will affect the Bay and ocean the most and that is not allowable.
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#1058778 - 01/10/22 10:00 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4498
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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Some of us have been tracking the Late Coho at Bingham. Jan. 7 2021 they had 500 returning adults and this year 2022 same date 750. While everyone has been in a bit of a tizzy over the Steelhead shut down from my perspective it was not needed just for Steelhead but also wild late Coho which are in worse shape. As the hatchery releases have the same it is a good to see what the difference the shut down is having. So if the pattern remains that normal timed Coho had holds true then this is good news. The Wynoochee trap is also up so I think it will. By removing harvest and you get a 50% increase should indicate to the most fervent denier that we have a harvest problem across the board in the Chehalis Basin. For the tidewater tribs which are failing miserably to make salmon and Steelhead escapement this is very good news!
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Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in
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#1058789 - 01/10/22 01:28 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Rivrguy]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 05/12/21
Posts: 242
Loc: Mason County
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Some of us have been tracking the Late Coho at Bingham. Jan. 7 2021 they had 500 returning adults and this year 2022 same date 750. While everyone has been in a bit of a tizzy over the Steelhead shut down from my perspective it was not needed just for Steelhead but also wild late Coho which are in worse shape. As the hatchery releases have the same it is a good to see what the difference the shut down is having. So if the pattern remains that normal timed Coho had holds true then this is good news. The Wynoochee trap is also up so I think it will. By removing harvest and you get a 50% increase should indicate to the most fervent denier that we have a harvest problem across the board in the Chehalis Basin. For the tidewater tribs which are failing miserably to make salmon and Steelhead escapement this is very good news! Hadn’t got around to looking at these coho numbers but am very much looking forward to seeing the winter steelhead escapement numbers come May/June compared to last year. Nice having some potentially good news.
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#1058842 - 01/13/22 07:49 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: seabeckraised]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4498
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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Still tracking the late Coho at Bingham and guys this is getting interesting. Same week 2021 the rack report was 1290 H and 35 W and for 2022 same week it is 2750 H and 115W. Keeping in mind that the normal timed Coho over performed last fall one would expect similar with late Coho. That said look at those numbers and it is clear just how much of an impact harvest has and just how much the natural and hatchery escapement increase when harvest is removed. These numbers are simply amazing from my seat in the bleachers.
For Steelhead this has to be good news but one has to wait for the redd counts later on. I have to say that I do believe that the Steelhead spawners are going to be above expectations now how much is the golden question. My hope is that they will mirror the Coho returns and wouldn't that be a great thing to have happen!
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#1058844 - 01/13/22 09:30 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: seabeckraised]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4498
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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The challenge will be how to restrain the harvest managers to NOT immediately return to the old ways of harvest the minute we see improvement. Harvest impacts on Steelhead should never again take place on a natural stock that is not making escapement, period.
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#1058846 - 01/13/22 11:49 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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They have been doing the acoustic tags since about the turn of the century. They have identified places where mortality occurs (HC Bridge) and identifies losses but what is totally lacking is a historical perspective. For example, on the stream I worked on we marked 100% of the smolts (steelhead, coho, CT) and actually measured survival to adult return. For steelhead, marking 100% of the smolts from about 85% of the anadromous zone resulted in about 1/3 of the returning adults being marked.
It is my belief, based on all the data sets I can find, that it is very rare for steelhead to have an R/S of 1, when measured to first return. We have to have the repeats. Also, the data from WA and BC says that R/S increases as smolt age decreases (more nutrients). The couple streams I have calculated where R/S=1 is mean smolt age of 1.5.
There is a lot going on in the marine waters. Certainly predation is taking a big chunk. There is also a lot off correlations which suggest a paucity of food, at least in the areas frequented by the Pacific Salmon.
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#1058852 - 01/13/22 01:12 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Recruit per Spawner. If it less than 1, the run declines. At 1, it is stable but no harvest. Above 1.0 there is some harvestable.
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#1058854 - 01/13/22 02:10 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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That's part of it, but you simple need the eggs.
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#1058857 - 01/13/22 03:39 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4498
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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DW on his drive about took a look see at the South Monte boat launch and seeing damage alerted Larry Philips and this is his reply. Oh almost forgot Larry is Region 6 Director.
Our initial assessment (though water is still high) is that extensive damage was done to this and a few other access sites. We are working with CAMP on a list of needs but South Monty may be one of worst impacted. As of today we have closed the access and will be conducting additional assessments as soon as possible. Other sites impacted are White Bridge on the Wynoochee and Porter Creek on the Chehalis. Damage at these locations isn’t as extensive and should be functional again soon. Thanks again for the heads up. Keep us posted is you or others see additional impacts. Larry
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#1058866 - 01/14/22 09:29 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 1514
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I know I’d be willing to forgo a handful of seasons if there is a significant increase in redds and escapement.
seabeckrasied.. not everyone has the time to forgo seasons anymore.. dont know your age but alot of fishers dont have yrs to go!!
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Where Destroying Fishing in Washington..
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#1058883 - 01/15/22 08:49 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: steely slammer]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 05/12/21
Posts: 242
Loc: Mason County
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I know I’d be willing to forgo a handful of seasons if there is a significant increase in redds and escapement.
seabeckrasied.. not everyone has the time to forgo seasons anymore.. dont know your age but alot of fishers dont have yrs to go!! 30s… I understand, but at what level of escapement should fishing be shut down? 50%? 25%? 10% Definitely hard to draw a line somewhere but it needs to be done. To be clear, I DON’T believe sport fishing pressure got us into this situation. Unfortunate that we often seem to take the brunt. But at what point do escapement numbers have a higher importance than the golden years of a fisherman’s life? Especially when there are other options to the south and north this year. Tough situation all around.
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#1058884 - 01/16/22 05:09 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: seabeckraised]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4498
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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I think that sport fishing played a roll in the decline of Steelhead be it not as the same magnitude tribal commercial fisheries. No free rides here! Now that said the unbelievably anal manner the agencies past and present hatcheries were used is mind boggling. There are ways to use hatcheries and ways not to use them. The purest want no hatcheries and others plant fish all over, both are part of the problem if not the problem for fishers. The conflict between the two philosophies has been about like hand to hand combat in the agency for years. Truth is a native Steelhead run should be heavily protected, where they are toast utilize that stream for harvest and look to opportunities where H&W conflicts are not present. Summerrun in Grays Harbor being an excellent example no interbreeding or wild genetic conflicts winter Steelhead just the opposite.
Steelhead or native salmon cannot be saved in every stream and every place as we as a people do not have the will. Until folks get there arms rapped around that fact and chart a different path nothing changes.
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#1058885 - 01/16/22 08:49 AM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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#1058892 - 01/16/22 05:25 PM
Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Remember that the fish will still need to be shared although I think steelhead are lumped into one pot summer/winter/hatchery/wild.
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