I've been fishing the Nooch for about 20 years now, and this is the WORSE I've seen it besides days that the Hump or Cow is blown out of shape. I went down for what I figured was a fairly peaceful float down the Nooch, and to my surprise by 6am there were already 5 trailers at blackcreek and 8, yes 8 at the crossover bridge. I'm pretty good about reckognizing guys who float the river alot by seeing them float by my Dad's property. But I only reckognized 1, maybe 2. Almost every decent slot was taken and well anchored up by daybreak. I had some good hits, but had to hit the little underlying slots, couldn't hit the decent holes (eventhough the whole river has pretty much changed entirely since the flood this year). What's going on??? I'm at a loss, who spilled the beans? I had some nice hits, eventhough I was basically backbouncing the whole river hoping for a hit while trying to row my cat at same time.

Well, besides maneuvering around the armada saturday, I did see some funny things. Watched a couple guys almost dump their brand new driftboats in the river at crossover. First, one guy tried backing all the way down and almost dumped boat over the side. Second backed boat down to the water, and couldn't get the boat to slide off (guess it helps if you DISCONNECT boat before you try to slide it off trailer) Just venting, but a day on the river beats a day at work.....tight lines.....

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well i've been fishing the nooch for many years myself and i've always seen lots of boats on the river when it's in fishing shape! especially when the water levels are low and clear. went today and there must have been 10 at blackcreek, 10 at the first bridge, and 10 more at the WDFG launch. but look at the conditions, extremely good! you have to expect people to be out, even more so when you have weather like we've had this weekend!! anyway i fished from the bank both days saturday catch and released 8-10lbs native and sunday landed a 6lbs buck.

Each year more and mor mags have printed storys of how great the nooch is for steelhead and salmon. Almost all the time now when the water is prim you see every new and old boat made on the river trying to prove they got what it takes. I seen one boat today put in and forget its plug up in the truck. They did not make it very far. Have fun and keep the line wet. NOOCH KID

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Its too close and too easy to drive too. Can you say "Fishin and Hunting news"!!!!

I'll have to agree with Nooch kid and Bob D, it's the press that's made it the way it is. Fishmaster, you may have fished it for awhile, but I've literally lived on the Nooch. I've watched for years a small amount of boats come down it, but I've RARELY seen it like this, even on nice days. Especially in February. My Dad and I take alot of our vacations to spend time fishing the river (or if conditions permit other rivers in vicinity). There are fish there, it's just that you must have hit a good hole to anchor in. There were none saturday open. I only saw one fish caught out of all those boats on saturday. I talked to my "source" on the river and he said the same thing. Since he works on the river he gets a good idea of who catches what. Oh well, I'm just venting, had a beautiful day out there, just surprising to see guys who don't even know the river fishing. (Oh yeah, there were guys ANCHORED in the holes and casting to open banks. Kind of makes it hard to work a stretch they have blocked up by their boats. So I know there's a few that are new there) But the Nooch has come up in popularity. It was never this bad, maybe the occasional weekend, but it's almost everyweekend now. My Dad will bank fish from his property and count boats and he's noticed the amount going up and staying constant himself. Oh well, once the cats out, it won't go back into the bag. How's the Cow doing???? HEHE

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Steelheader69,

Hey man, I feel your pain! I live 5 minutes from it and I only fished it once this winter for the very reasons you vent about. It absolutely sucks!

I have a different take on the increase in pressure. Though you didn't address it, the huge increase in sleds and their ilk is due in part to the cowlitz blowing chunks for the better part of the last 4-5 winters. The boys and their toys have to go somewhere and since no one has the balls to put a stop to the sleds, it will continue.

The HUGE increase in driftboats is due in part to Fishing and Hunting Lies and every puget sound newspaper that says every week the nooch is the place to go and you will surely catch your limit! I see alot of guys new to the sport shelling out for the new driftboat and acting like a parade of lemmings making a beeline for this river because the "paper told them too". These guys don't know any better; it is all they have experienced so they are content to join the fleet down the river not really knowing how it could and used to be.

It's funny, but many of the locals I know pick other rivers these days because they too know how it used to be and are disgusted like you and I. It has become a puget sound river. I had to go to Oly early on a Saturday morning a few weeks back and you should have seen the parade on the freeway! At the exit alone I counted 5 boats and that was in the space of 1 minute!

Another reason for the increase is WDFW's reduction in planting other rivers with enough smolts to create quality fisheries on many lesser known streams. It seems like fewer and fewer rivers are getting substantial numbers and those that are are getting more, thus, what is created is a mob scene on a few select rivers instead spreading out the pressure with more opportunity. Yes, I am well aware that there are still smaller streams getting plants but I am also aware that those plants are a fraction of what they used to be. I can remember not so long ago when the Willapa, Naselle, Humptulips(not stevens creek)and Deschutes were THE places to go. They still have spurts but not near what they used to.

Look at me! I'm ranting and raving too. I don't know where I'm going with all this except to say it surprises me that more guys don't get disgusted too and venture out a little more and explore. Fish are caught but it is anything but "red hot and the place to go!"

Maybe I should just shut up and keep the lemmings coming here. Then we can have continued solitude on our personal zipperlips.

I'm done now.

Hey Eric, I'd probably know you if I saw you, especially if you work the rivers off the Chehalis. Yeah, I'd agree with you about the Cow and such. I myself will hit other rivers which I don't plan on saying on here (some are rivers people claim have no fish). I'm sure in time someone will catch something there and it'll hit the paper and it'll be ruined also, but I'll enjoy it while it still lasts. I like the Nooch though, my Dad has a cabin on it and it's nice to float something you're very familiar with. I guess I'll start hitting the Hoh and those remote rivers again. Alot of people won't fish it for a day trip, so I'll have to make other arrangements like Eric. It's just sad to see a river as small as the Nooch loaded with so many boats. I know I don't own the river, but it seems so many run to where it's "hot" to fish instead of familiarizing themselves with one river and hitting it hard. At least I have the knowledge on most of those south Olympic and Western Olympic rivers to run where I need to if I have to. Oh well, just venting some more.

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The same thing that happened to the Satsop a few years ago is going on with the NOOCH now!
When fishing was super on the Satsop the
media and LOCAL bait shops couldn't wait to tell everyone. Now they can't wait to get the
crowds on the Nooch along with GUIDES in their BIG sleds. It's not about the fish
to these people it about MONEY!!!!!!!!!

I think you guys are missing one other big element in the overcrowding dimise on some streams, it is spelled i-n-t-e-r-n-e-t. Look at this board, almost every person on this board can't wait to brag or spill the beans about the stream they just fished or freely advertises their favorite fishing hole, in this case the 'nooch. I think Bob's page is a great place to converse about technique, C&R, ideas, get Bob's water level reports etc. but keep your favorite streams to fish to yourself, believe me it is a hell of a lot more fun to act on a hunch and find it pays off than some guy telling the whole world where to fish and where to put in. Everytime someone brings up info on one of my favorite streams I just cringe. You guys are just adding to the problem

[This message has been edited by Rich (edited 02-21-2000).]

Rich,

Not me! I never have and never will spill the beans about any success I have. I cringe as much as you do when some clifford spills his guts on one of my favorite non-publicized rivers.

My talking about the nooch is after the fact. It is a river already ruined.

Don't forget it's a public river and every fisherman has a right to fish it. The last thing we want to premote is exclusivity. Not only am I new to the Nooch I plan on bringing other fisherman to the river. Especially those just learning the sport of stealheading.

NOOCHers,

You are right It is a public river. the point these guys are making is that it was at one time a nice place to spend the day and not have the crowding that the Cowlitz had. Now this Nooch is becoming "the little Cowlitz". as for bringing all yer buddies to the Nooche that is good. get as many of them to fish it that you can. I think it is a good thing to get friends into the sport. It allso keaps them off the other rivers that I will be on. the Nooch is a good river, good luck fishing it. I was just learning it and now the crowds have moved in and I am adventurious enough that I have found other rivers that don't have many people on them and the odds are still good enough that I am not missing anything exept a few tangles with the "morons" that don't know how to fish and don't care to learn. Not saying you are one but they tend to flock to the places that are wrote up in all the papers, like the Nooche or Blue Creek. Good luck to all who fish those places I will be enjoying the lonely Zipper lip.

Just talked to a Buddy and he said they really nailed them on the Nooch today!!! said that if you aren't fishing it this year then you aren't fishing. everybody get on it. it is full of 20 #'s No not really just thought I would mes with all you crowd hoppers some.


nothiing personal to anybody just amazes me how people can fish with so many others breathing down their back.

dcrzfitter

I'm amazed some of the responses on here. I didn't give a report on how good the Nooch was putting out, I said it was full of boats. Yes, mikvin, it's a public river, but too many people hear a report and flock to a river trying to find the holy grail. If you're from Seattle there are plenty of rivers around you with possibilities to teach someone to fish for steelhead. I never said it was a "private" river, just that I fish it alot since my Dad has property on it. I've watched the numbers go up when most guys on it have no idea where they're fishing or what they're doing on it. I've never given out info on here, just if it was fishable or not. Like Eric, I have a few fairly secret rivers that are rarely fished and I plan on not posting them here. It's amazing how you can tell if someone is passionate about a river or if they feel "they're entitled to it". I know and love the Nooch and I hate seeing it turn into the Cow. I swore off the Cow years ago and have fished the Peninsula exclusively (besides my home river of the Puyallup). It's just that too many "entitled" fisherman clog up a river and ruin it, not only in sense of solitude but stripping a run clean. Eventhough most guys I watched weren't even fishing the runs correctly. I could care less if Mikvin brings the whole armada with him. I have some nice private waterfront to fish from on the Nooch, I just love to float it. I agree with the Satsop scenerio. It's word of mouth and the papers that spread some half truths. Soon the Nooch will be worn out, and people will move on. (I hear the Kalama is knocking em dead, let's all head south).....just kidding, but that's all it takes to get the armada to run somewhere else anymore. I guess it's hard to explain to someone who's been fishing a river only a short time what it means to someone who's grown up on it. I watched the Satsop get ruined like some others here (remember when the superhole really knocked limits out left and right?) Looks like they're all heading that way. Oh well, I guess Eric and I will have to team up and hit some unknown rivers while the rest hit the Nooch. Hmmmmmmmm, I wonder how long until those rivers are spoiled? What do you have to say Eric?


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I was waiting for someone like mikvin to reply about the issue of privatization. He is flat missing the point.

This has nothing to do with "stay off my personal river". It has everything to do with serious overcrowding on a river that can't handle it. It's hard to talk about this issue coherently without coming across like a snob. Unfortunately, some people percieve it that way. So be it.

Steelheader69, you make a good point about growing up on the river and seeing the changes. You are justified to feel frustrated. It is a perspective that many cannot see or appreciate so they remain oblivious, resentful or simply join the flotilla down the river.

It's not just on the nooch. I'll bet everyone who reads this board and lives on or near an over-fished river is nodding their heads in agreement. They've seen it.

What do you do about it? Sadly, probably not much. The newspapers have an "obligation" to share with the masses where to go. Perhaps instead of naming rivers by name they can simply mention regions-force fishermen to re-invent themselves and discover the art of discovery and exploration. My most treasured spots were discovered by curiosity, dtermination and a sense of exploration. no one told me to go there.

Like I mentioned earlier, WDFW is slowly pissing away our opportunity with smaller budgets and smaller plants. Washington's population has exploded the last 20 years but the dept's. response has been to cut back or eliminate many programs. If those programs don't work (and it appears many didn't) re-invent hatchery practices so they do work. Don't cut them! Look at the snyder creek project on the sol duc.

I like being able to float or walk a river with a reasonable chance of hooking fish and not racing to a hole in the dark only to fish behind 10 boats the rest of the day. if that's your idea of a good time, have at it. I'm done talking about this and am going fishing somewhere in Washington!

Eric you and 69'er are right on the money ,Having fished for steelhead for 25 plus years I've watched it all come down to this,I watched the Nisqually reduced to what it is today ( unfishable for steelhead ) these huge native fish in my opinion were in a class by them selves .Now it's the Nooch too many people too many boats and not just drift boats it's those DAMN sleds going too fast in shallow water blowing all those spawning beds to Sh-t !!!!! they don't belong here it's just not big enough,but hey it's a free country but... it's a sad day,I have other options thank god but you won't see me on the nooch any time soon ,so I guess that will be 1 less guy to worry about,and that will leave more room for milkvin to coduct his class on steelhead etiquite I gone headed to the zipper ...P.s. 69'er being a fellow cat rower maybe we should get together SHHHHHH quiet they will hear you .....

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Tight Lines
<*)>><------FISH ON!!!

Well, it's nice to know there are some guys who really understand what my point was. There are a few who's attitudes on here kind of shows what they're river etiquette must be like. I not once said I owned the river, just that I actually love and cherish this river (as it was mind you). Yes, as mentioned above by fishmaster, if water levels were right, the river was loaded. But not as loaded and as frequently as it is now. I know from more then just occasional trips, but I digress since some seem to think I'm just there when the river is hot like most these other guys. (I spend almost every weekend during the summer months on the Nooch sitting by the river on my Dad's lot). I give up though, I'll respond if someone says something to my post, but attitudes like Mikvin really ruin the sport of fishing. I encourage everyone to fish, but it's not a "right" it's a priviledge. I know that. Just saying I'll fish it anytime I want and will bring all my buddies with me only shows that someone doesn't know what it means to really know a river and respect it. I hate sounding like I'm into "kharma" but I also whitewater cataraft and I know to respect a river not just float on top of it and throw chunks of lead and eggs out into it. I actually scout the rivers out and know where slots are and where they've moved to after floods. I've spent MANY days floating the nooch out of season just checking it out and reading the holes. I do that with other rivers also, but will only mention the Nooch since it's in question here. I see too many of these so called "I have the right" guys fishing in bad spots or fouling a hole to be first one to a stretch of water. If I sound snobbish, so be it, I know Eric and Steelie boy know what I'm talking about. It's a demise of your childhood and your fishing past. The nooch was my relief from the Cow, now the nooch is the "little cow" as mentioned above. Mikvin can have fun teaching his buddies to fish it, I've seen enough to know that alot of guys are just chasing the pack and not fishing themselves. (ie. I've noticed alot of guys in boats who have unlimited access to the whole river and will foul up one of the few accessible bank holes for bank fishermen only because they've seen others catch fish there) It's absurd and if my Grandpa and Uncle were alive today they'd go nuts, since with my Dad they instilled etiquette. Oh well, Iknow my Dad's opinion and will just hit the Nooch when I feel the need and will move onto bigger and better things.

tight lines to those who understand

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My thoughts from a different angle. It is the economy, we live in a state that has plenty of money to be spent on leisure activities. Many of these people on the river are there only a couple of times a season (steelhead then again during salmon when the press says the area is 'hot'). They are there for a day on the river -- a day out with the guys -- a day in the outdoors. Notice I did not say out fishing. Some surveys show that only 12% of those who fish in this state do so for the sport. Those who are out for a day on the river and also happen to be fishing are most likely to not know how to fish the slot or drift but will tie up the area so others can not fish the area correctly. If they happen to catch a fish native or not they most likely will keep it and take it home.

I have seen many areas fished out by to many anglers. Many people not taking care of the land and water. I believe that things are only going to get worse. The population of this state is going to keep going up, high paying jobs will continue, and the increased number of boats will need a place to float. We are the minority even in our own group of fishermen. Only 12% of us fish for the sport. Even less than that fight the system to allow us to continue fishing.
Just my thoughts.
A bad day fishing is better than a good day working.