While there is a lot of talk about low holing and guns etc. on our rivers as of late just wondering if the old Steelhead rules still aply. I was taught that when other fishermen are behind you and you are fishing a run you make 3 or 4 casts to cover the water and then move down river 3 or 4 steps and continue through the run this way.
The old timers that I used to fish with would even leave the run if they caught a fish and move back to the top again so someone else would have a chance at first through the rest of the hole.
Still see a lot of considerate fishermen out there but have noticed an increase in folks that plunk themselves right in the run and won't leave. Most of these folks are not 1st timers on the river eithier. Had it happen to me on Sunday on the Sky and was quite surprised after hooking and loosing a nice Steelhead and Catching a rare Dolly on that river. I got out to let the guys go through they moved down to the middle of the run and just stayed there.
Am I wrong that such Etiquette still applys when flyfishing a run? This is not sour grapes just wondering?

I think you've pretty well got it right. When I started fishing for steelhead forty-plus years ago almost everyone (flyfishermen and gear guys) followed that general pattern. Unfortunately, that was then and this is now. More people, fewer fish, a LOT more inconsiderate slobs; even flyfishermen seem to be ignorant of those few simple, mannerly customs anymore.

[This message has been edited by Preston Singletary (edited 02-29-2000).]

it is unfortunate but seems to be a trend.
One thing that irritates me even more is someone above or below you gutting their fish and leaving everything there. It is not only nasty but has to put scent into the water. walk way downstream, or better yet gut it at home!!!

Times and ideas have changed. Recreational fisheries' management, angler attitudes and river etiquette, regarding steelhead angling, have all evolved over the last thirty years or so. Some have been good, others bad. The emergence of terminal fishing areas and C&R, both as a mangement tool and anglers' moral philosophy, have been factors that have helped bring about these changes. For instance back in the mid 1970's the daily steelhead limit was two fish. It did not matter whether a steelhead was kept or released. When two were landed, your day was over. This included kelts too. The premise of these regulations was to prevent an angler from hogging the sweet part of the run, and "catching and releasing" steelhead all day, giving other anglers a chance to land a fish. Hah, today it's not common to see a dude stand in front of Hogarty Creek and C&R summer-runs all day at Rieter. Fun? Yes! But, ethical....

Anything left over from a kept fish should be tossed into the river or at least left in the flood plain. When salmon and steelhead die after spawning, their carcasses provide nutrients to the river (a substantial amount if you think about the total numbers). With the advent of terminal hatcheries, many rivers are missing this much needed nutrient input.

Besides, I use gut piles to tell me if folks are catching fish.

Some good points here, never thought about the the cleaning of fish part. If I'm at a local spot and I keep a factory, (hatchery) fish then I usually clean it at home. Fron now on I'll do it on the river but away from the present river level, Seagulls got eat too.
Maybe this is a good time to bring up some more things about etiquette on the river. Is there any one out there that knows more river etiquette it might help those who read this post both new and old to the river. Lets not get negative but just some ideas on what would make fishing on our crowded rivers more enjoyable for all.

I agree with Obsessed, that the gut's should be returned to the water. I think our river's have be robbed of the nutrient's with our sustained max harvest policy's. As far as C&R not being ethical at Reiter, that's a laugh. The summer fish spread out the entire stretch, from the Summer hole down to the Cable hole. Just because a guy is scoring right in front of the creek does'nt mean you can't get your's too. My advice would be to look and see what color is working that day and walk some river. Remember a properly released fish will be available to anybody probabaly the next day. I was fishing my favorite Penn. stream on Mon., when I hooked a very hot little hatchery hen. On the second jump I noticed color in her mouth that did'nt match my lure. It turned out to be my buddy's Dad's spoon, which he lost on the fish the beginning of Feb. C&R work's for everyone. Now here's an idea I think would be great, instead of closing the Reiter terminal from June 1st till stupid 8:00 am Aug 1. Make this C&R, I know shocking, C&R hatchery's?. With all the people I talk to, and read about on this BB who still are waiting for their first Steelhead, I think this would create an excellent OPPORTUNITY for novice and veteran's alike. Good Time's Everyone!

I left no opinion on whether it was ethical, or not, to camp in front of the creek and C&R summer brats all day. Opinions will vary. Obviously, you think it's cool. I was merely trying to make the point that under previous steelhead management regimes, C&Ring more than your daily limit would be an illegal practice. Yes, it's true that summer-runs can be consistently caught from the intake hole all way down to the cable hole. But, without a doubt I consider right out infront of the hatchery creek the "meat."

Good post on etiquette. I was taught the same as you that you start at the top of the run. Cast and step through. If you hook a fish, you pull out and start again at the top. Dennis Dickson has a good article on this on his site. I also was taught you don't fish down on someone but I must admit that if someone is camped below me, I have in the past crept down to maybe nudge them on through the hole.

(One other observation LT, I have found fewer people low hole me up at the Doublewide. Either it is not as obvious a water or they are two lazy to trek up there.)

Didn't mean to stop the topic by responding to another's post. This topic received some comment several months ago, and I got called a 'low-holer' for saying its ok to walk in upstream or downstream of someone as long as your not crowding them (gear fishing, not flyfishing).

At the risk of being brandished again by some name caller, I'd like to provide these comments for the board to mull. Its very true that there are fewer fish and more anglers, but I think that both management and etiquette has responded to this, not necessarily by people getting ruder, but rather out of necessity of the fishing conditions.

Fewer fish means less aggressive fish. Theres nothing like a pack of 50 steelhead in a hole that make them very responsive to just about anything you put near them. Less than 1 dozen fish in the same hole and the chances of one traveling 3' to 6' to pick up your presentation is greatly lessened. Fish start to refuse colors or sizes; get very selective. Therefore, you have to make more casts in the same water using different stuff. Also less chance of fish being spread out through the entire drift.

When fishing a drift where I think there are fish, I'll work the entire drift, but I will sloooooow down where I've hit fish in the past, or move into very good looking water, unless I'm pushed. Thats why I'd rather have someone move in downstream of me, rather than push me, as long as I'm not being crowded.

As for crowds: On a river like the Sky, if everyone was required to walk in at the top of the hole, there literally would be lines at the top of some of the more popular drifts (I don't include Reiter in this). And each individual waiting their turn will have their own idea of how fast a person should work the water. You think there won't be an exchange of words?

I do not think this applies to flyfishing because fly anglers are more apt to get picked up by the most aggressive fish, so are at an advantage covering lots of water and being the first one through. There are also a lot fewer fly anglers than gear flingers, so this etiquette is much more feasible.

I'm certainly not advocating low-holing. But I think that common sense and politeness is more sensible and would enhance the fishing experience more than a rigid set of rules of etiquette.

One other thought on this subject that I have not seen addressed. The courtesy of asking if someone minds if you fish below them. I had this happen recently to me and I was impressed greatly by the persons gesture. Of course you can always say, "yes I do mind" but is nice to be given the choice.

Great Point, I grew up grar fishing a popular river in Oregon and I was tought the proper river etiquette, But when I started to flyfish I noticed that I was no longer welcome on a lot of the holes that I use to fish. It got so bad that I do not fish this river any more and I live ten minunites from it. I do not know If any of you have experenced this in washington but in the willmatte valley it's getting bad. To many people and not enough rivers

Fish On!!

More good points here. Sorry, kind of new to this page so didn't know this subject was brought up before. I just flyfish for steelhead don't know why becase gear is more effective in winter. I realize a gear guy can get a longer and more effective drift than me so if he is slower down through a run it dosn't bother me much. But Sinktip is right about asking permission. I've found that by asking there is an exchange of words that usually are positive between two fishermen/women. Don't know how many times I've seen someone walking up river to fish the run I'm in and thought to myself this idiot better not drop in on me. The guy comes up and asks if I'd mind if he fished a ways below me, and you know what? I don't usually mind, it's like a positive connection.
As for too many people waiting in line at the top of the pool I don't know. Why would anyone arriving to a pool that is already being fished by more than one or two folks want to fish it any way? If the guys fishing it are good then they have probably covered the run real good and if they don't know what they are doing then they more than likely have moved the fish.

I'll agree with many of the comments hera and the approaches taken. I started one of the posts about this subject a couple months ago. I would say that I learned the traditional cast step cast step....get a fish start again. With the increased pressure I still work in a business like manner thru the run but do not start again.

I would question the statement about flyfishers have a greater advantage by covering more water. The thickline (my handle) has much greater drag and is more difficult to get a good presentation at distance. I agree that FFer's generally cover more water and fish over more fish nad the fish that we pick up tend to be the more aggressive fish.

Next, Tip I will ask gear fishermen if they are working thru or if I can drop below. I expect FFer's to work thru and usually don't ask. Stay sucker free!

regards

thick

GP you are not the only fly guy the gear people don't like. Seems to me that almost every board i visit on the web with the exception of a few Fly guys practically get threatened just for saying fly. If you don't like the crowds another option is to head to smaller streams. Lt if you want a longer drift you may want to try nymphing with an indicator/bobber. You can usually get pretty good drifts with those.