I am a new reader/poster here from NW Oregon, where I used to guide fulltime. I've also fished NW Wash., B.C., & AK. I will attemp a sort of fishing cultural/info. exchange with U guys up North from time to time.- For now, I'd like to express an opinion about the Oly. Pen. river names. Those early Native Indians must have been real party animals far ahead of their time, judging by the names they gave those rivers! They drank whiskey to over-Dosewallops, then they Humptullips, try to Duckabush, and they even had a Hoh that never Queets! Cool.- BB

BTW- Do the Indians still gillnet those rivers? What's the impact been on salmon/steehead fishing there in recent years? Thanks much, BB *P.S.- To Mr. Gutpile who cap-yelled a response to my Q: I don't fish the Oly. Pen rivers, although I would like to someday, thus I don't harvest any fish from the Quinault. Also, my Q was one of current impact curiousity since this used to be a hot topic in STS mag., & I haven't heard anything about it in years. There certainly wasn't any implicit indictment within my Q such to elicit your response.- Steel. boy; I think you are right about opening one's mouth. Can get you into "trouble" because some people just don't recognize what's actually coming out of it.BB

[This message has been edited by Backbouncer1 (edited 03-02-2000).]

Humptulips means "hard to pole" The Natives used to "pole" the canoes up the river. The Humptulips had long shallow riffles which made it a struggle, hence the name

THE QUINAULTS ARE THE PEOPLE YOU SHOULD THANK FOR ALL THE STEELHEAD AND SALMON YOU HARVEST OUT OF THE SALMON RIVER. ALOT OF WORK GOES INTO RAISING THEM FISH BUT NO ONE WANT'S TO THANK THE INDIANS FOR ANYTHING.

It has been mentioned on this bb more than once on the quaility of the fishery that the Quinaults have created here ,it was a lot of good management,foresite and some good old US tax dollars ,But the fact remains that the main reason for their sucess is the fact that execpt for guided trips on the Quinault they are the only who get to fish .Imagine the sucess other rivers would have if we could limit the amount of fishing pressure
Just my .02

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Tight Lines
FISH ON ------<*)>><
Men are like fish we get into trouble when we open our mouths to much!!

Thanks...

Gutpiles, Let me be the first to thank the indians for all they've done, where would we be without them, less then 1% of the population gets 50% of the fish, give me a break.

You know, there are times I get on here, and really wonder how some peoples minds work. I love this BB and frequent it alot. But you get some people on here that feel almighty. Gutpiles really needs a reality check. I won't go into logistics here, since most people who put out comments like that can't comprehend them. But I grew up on the "Puyallup Indian Reservation", or so it was landmarked. I was a paperboy growing up and delivered to most Indians and non Indians around the area. I know EXACTLY how alot of Indians act and how they feel "We're not thanked enough". I agree Quinaults have done a great job on their reservation, yet I do believe most reservations are heavily funded by US dollars "since actually an Indian Reservation is it's own soveriegn nation they use our currency". I'll make you a deal, we'll thank you when you thank us for moneys given in aid (ie food stamps, welfare, etc), we'll thank you for a fisherie well done. I'm really tired of the "you took our land" BS. I'm afraid for 1000's of years lands have been invaded and stolen by the conquerer. To say "we owe you" is kind of an insult. Usually a conquerer will extinguish all conquests, take all lands and valuables, and give NO concessions to the victims of said conquest. Ok, I had my own tangent just like Gutpiles, all that was meant was the names of rivers, and he has to put a statement without reading Backbouncer's original letter. Man, it scares me sometimes and makes me wonder if the reason there's so many rude and inconsiderate people on the rivers nowadays is that most are so uneducated (and, when I mean uneducated I mean reallife AND schooling, not just schooling) Hmmmmmm, I wonder if one could dig his own river and plant fish in it for his own private run, or would that constitute tribal/state fish that everyone could catch????? Oh well, as always, I'll just float the rivers and keep to myself. I still use proper etiquette on rivers though alot won't use them back towards myself...... I guess since I never fish the Quinault I won't have to worry about fishing with Gutpiles....

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With all those interesting names of rivers it was nice to learn the origin of the name for one of them and leaves me curious as to the meaning of some of the other river names. Thanks for sharing the information Potter. To me fishing is more than just stickin fish. It has as much to do with learning the river and its quirks and just being out in the weather and breathing air that smells alive and clean. Knowing something more about the area I am visiting just adds to the enjoyment of the outings.

Tight lines

well just to clear things up, YES indians also pay taxes.wellfare?only indians have wellfare, comeon!!!we're all working people here on this page i take it.anyway.... yes the quinaults have a great hatchery program and maybe the state should follow by example.
and yes the lower quinault has little fishing pressure, cool huh?????
and conquering..... who was here first??????

Desertdog, If your interested in the Queets history a couple of good reads are "Trails and Trials of the Olympic Pioneers" and "My Queets Story" Both are at the Aberdeen Library. Many of the Queets tribs are named after the Homesteaders. (Phelan, Drinkwater,Hartzel, Hibbard, etc.) There is a story about each struggle. Also, For those who didn't know the next time your at Streeters with your drift boat cross the river and check out the pioneer graveyard. There is several graves from the Streeters' family. The apple trees are still there and the daffidals (spelling?) should be coming up soon. Oh yeah, if your down by tacoma creek, across from mud creek, check to see if Zane Gray's cabin is still standing. It's on the north bank just upstream of Tacoma creek mouth.

[This message has been edited by potter (edited 03-02-2000).]

I didn't think GP's "reactionary" post was out of line at all. Personally, I thought the original post was culturally insensitive and inappropriate. Fellow Americans that still embrace a native language as a source of pride can empathize. Forming a pun with another language can be both humorous and insulting, depends on who you're talking to.

Mr. Hohwaiian: To you & any other person I may have unwittingly offended by my attempt at humor with my original post, I sincerely appologize! I honestly did not think of Native American sensativity when making a funny take on Oly.Pen river names. Please forgive my oversight. Hey, I'm a party animal myself.- Also, I did not expect to ignite the flames of fishing controversy & even some seeming Indian/Caucation tention over historic matters, on this board. I certainly empathize with the plight of minorities in this country. I also understand the frustrations of Steel.69 about some minority individual's mentality that "you owe us". His take on the history of the conquerers & the conquered are credible. This continent's Native American history is fraught with instigated wars between tribes over land aquisition. I don't recall ever reading about any conquering tribe helping the conquered tribe rebound- and giving them rights to 50% of the buffalo. This makes Solleks question of "who was here first" somewhat hypocritical in that the answer could be the Indian conquered & removed tribes were there first (if the Oly. Pen tribes were an exception, please forgive my insinuation). However, I will NOT judge you by the actions of your ancestors. Please do not judge me by the ignorant actions of my ancestors. The same principal applies to African Americans. The individuals that deserve real respect in this country are the oppressed among the majority & the oppressed among the minorities that rise above the ignorance of blame & baseless hate to do very well in this country. They have my admiration. A cliche' that has total credence is: judge a person as an individual, & by his words & deeds, rather than by his racial ancestory. The reality is that there is always going to be some unfairness for all people groups in any country. Rise above it rather than lay blame on intrinsic human nature.- We must strive to compromise on fishing & all issues. While I do not agree with the Judge Boldt decision to alot 50% of harvestable fish (which I believe should be reduced significantly) for the Olympic Indians, I must also say that Native Americans had for centuries taken better care of the land & it's fish than the white people ever have! - Steve

[This message has been edited by Backbouncer1 (edited 03-03-2000).]

Desertdog,
Another peninsula river with a name that I always found interesting and amusing is the Hamma Hamma which drains eastward into Hood Canal. Apparently the name means "stinky stinky", in reference to the large numbers of salmon that once spawned there.

Wait a second here. The Indian of past did not jump into the truck, go fire up the sled which they used to put out a gill net. Then go sell the fish for what amounts to chump change. They used to eat the fish. This is the next century folks. Indians can and do get the educational oppertunity as anybody else. They can and do get jobs. I'm not thanking them for anything, and I'm not sorry for the fact that this is the U.S.A- And I have anything against Indians, I just don't think that there should be anything "extra" for them. We are the problem not because we displaced them.. but because we coddle them and pretty much make sure that they stay different. Sounds harsh but its the facts. This is the greatest nation on earth, and Indians are just a part of it, not the reason for it. I read another post about native steelhead for halibut bait??? Thats so sick that I wish I had not read it.

First, thanks to Backbouncer and such for ACTUALLY reading my post. But what I said Sollecks was that since Indians are a "sovreign nation" they shouldn't be entitled to welfare and such. YES, they do pay taxes on things, but not as much or near to scale we do. I've spent time in Canada and Europe and paid taxes there, but it FAR from gave me rights given to citizens of that country. I'm saying that if there is to be an Indian Nation, maybe they should be self supported then (eventhough there is in the constitution that it is UNLAWFUL to have a nation within our nation but that seems to slip everyones minds). But, to end a note, your heritage is simply that, your heritage. I have some Indian in me, but mostly German and Swedish. Hmmmm, I guess that means that I deserve to hunt any deer in Europe because my ancestors did. Hey, even better, my great great grandparents were Prussians, and were invaded and turned into German citizens. We are ALL from places that have been conquered and changed. There is no "PURE" race so I'm tired of the "Indians were here first so it's ours". Simply put, as bankbouncer said, it shows in history that with the conquest comes the spoils. I don't like saying it this way but we're all lucky to be in a country that AT LEAST gave you some rights if you're an Indian. Man, if this was Europe, Indians would have been inslaved or exterminated, period. Read your history and it will show. I'm just really tired of hearing whining coming from those who seem to be uneducted or trying to LIVE a lifestyle that died a hundred years ago. It's your heritage now. Do as I do, you can celibrate your customs and cherish it, but to demand a lifestyle that is no longer viable is absurd. "Hmmmm, but it would be nice to be a King Ludwig in southern Germany and live in castles" Yeahh, rightt. Oh well, I won't defend my case anymore, it'll fall on mostly deaf ears anyways....

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Steelheader69, very well said.

Steelie 69 well put,Mentioned early in this post who was here first and who conquered who,I've read several accounts of the early history of Willipa harbor and the coast,let me tell you, the coastal tribes were by no means freindly to each other infact the Quinaults were the most feared of all they didn't ever allow marriage outside the tribe for the women ,the men simply raided another villages for what they wanted, the survivors were either killed or turn into slaves,sound familar.I do not agree with the actions of my ancestors,The reason it happened was inevetable ,the way it happened was inconseavable (spelling?)....Just my .02

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Tight Lines
FISH ON ------<*)>><
Men are like fish we get into trouble when we open our mouths to much!!

Sheesh, y'all sound like a bunch of conquistadors searching for the golden steelie (doesen't exist).