Union employees live in an artificial bubble insulating you from the real world and the union is very effective at protecting what you have. Unfortunately, that isn't the reality private employees face daily or what is typical of the country OR the world. Costs increase, that is an inescapable fact. At some point you and your brothers will make concessions or lose your job. If Boeing goes to NC, at some point the y will likely face the same issues- it is probably cheaper to build planes in Mexico or China.

My earlier point, and I suspect you havent searched the Hostess thread, is your issues affect us all and honestly I think just as selfishly as you- I hope you do take a pension cut because the regional economy deserves the work more than you deserve some guaranteed retirement.


I also think you have already decided and are looking for validation or support.


I hope you find resolution.

I have decided sir and do not need your validation or support. I simply posted this to vent and to also shed light on this current event from a different point of view than that of the media. this is not my first job by a LONG shot. I know what it means to work for small businesses with little to no benifits so I agree we have a great thing at Boeing. And we build airplanes. Doesn't get much cooler. just sayin.

Blue water pro,

I know they have been trying to unionize in SC but as far as I know it the governor will not allow unions over there. that's what I've heard.

You've made up your mind and needed to vent...



I am not sympathetic and neither are most non-Bowing employees. Our fate, and Boeing's, is being held hostage by a bunch of over paid whiners.


Sorry, I don't mean to be rude... You are a decent guy from what I've read and seen- I just don't agree.


BWP-

Been drinking again? I don't even understand one of your points let alone the paragraph. What are you trying to say?

Not a Prohibitionist at all and I understand why it is an emotional issue for all of us.

What difference does it make how much money the CEO makes? How many strikes did he go on to get where he is? You really need to pull your head out of your ass and deal with reality. Boeing will pull out if the offer on the table is rejected. They want it that way, and the union is stupid enough to hand it to them. Mind Boggeling

When I was a member of IAM 751 15-16 years ago they told me there was enough work for 7-10 years. I was laid off 18 months later. However, the union did pay for the classes I needed to move on and to tell you the truth, the lay off was the best thing that ever happened to my career. I would never want to go back and deal with the politics and good old boy network ever again. But I do miss the 2 weeks of vacation plus the time off paid at Xmas, getting paid Grade 8 money to run a spot welder on the weekends with no work to do, just reading a book. Beers at the Royal Bear. Ping Pong and basketball during breaks and lunch (I was building ping pong champ for 3 weeks until the Fillipino inspector took me down).

I hope it all works out for you but I would also suggest you have a Plan B.

So if Boeing wants to leave, why ask Washington State for Tax Breaks?

Here's the deal folks. This is all bigger than just keeping the 777x in Washington. However, even that is somewhat of an uncertainty because there is some language in the new contract that states, "both parties agree that some work on the 777x could be outsourced. There has also been a lot of talk lately about automation, or in other words...robots taking some of the "promised" jobs.

LOU 42 is work placement language in our current contract for the 737max, P8, Tanker, and existing Everett wide bodies. If this contract is voted in, LOU 42 will be gone in 2016 so it leaves a lot of uncertainty on the placement of some of the other programs. Losing the 737max production could be absolutely devastating. I'm looking to find some info on new work placement language for these other airplanes that may be hidden in the contract. I sure would like to know as I'm sure most of Washington would as well.

Drew,

Its an uphill battle. People looking in don't understand nor will you get much sympathy. I am currently a Fed Employee (hopefully jumping ship in the next couple of weeks) and no one really cared about the Shut down and the loss of pay (got the back pay though). I am also in the National Guard, no one really cared that they for a short time did away with Federal Tuition Assistance.

If people don't have a dog in the fight, its tough to get genuine support or advice with respect to your stance. Unions help get your bennies and increase your pay, but at times of strike it can be scary.

If they bluff is called then what? Its scary stuff messing with people's money. I do echo the comments about the CEO Pension being irrelevant. If that is what people want, get your education, and get into the Foster School of Business and earn your MBA. I have a friend that is making six figures shortly after graduating there. He started out as a PFC in the Army. If the will is there, you can achieve it. It should be used as a motivation more so than a way to discriminate the stance.

I wish you the best of luck, I have friends from college that are Engineers at Boeing and my wife's uncle is a pretty high up Engineer there as well. Make sure you challenge the Union to look at the reprocussions that may occur if they don't negotiate. Its one thing to stick to your guns but they need to remember to look at the negative results that can occur and the impact it will have on both the Union Members and the localized economy.

RB

Steeliedrew,

I feel bad about your situation. Boeing is no longer the home-grown Washington state company it once was. Boeing is a global corporation, and it has loyalty only to shareholders, period. It's about the bottom line and nothing else. Boeing is extorting billions of dollars in tax breaks from the state and extorting labor cost reductions from its labor force, IAM at the moment.

I hate corporate welfare, but that's what the governor and Legislature just handed Boeing. It's as bad as public funding for sports stadiums for rich team owners. Boeing threatens, "give us a fat welfare check, or we'll pick up and go to S. Carolina and get our welfare check from them, plus cheaper labor." The state caved in to Boeing's demand. It would have been political suicide with severe economic ramifications, but I kinda' think the Gov should have just said, "When you leave, don't let the door hit ya' on the ass on your way out."

The situation sucks. Boeing is in the driver's seat, and they know it. Taxes not paid by Boeing will have to be paid by WA's middle class citizens. When Boeing crushes the union, either by contracts favorable to Boeing and paying less to labor, then WA has fewer middle class citizens paying taxes. The reason the situation sucks is because it's all win for Boeing, while WA and labor lose. Regardless of the outcome, I don't see any upside. That is, I don't see how WA is better off as a state with machinists who in the future are lower middle class citizens instead of solidly middle-middle class citizens. WA may possibly be better off if Boeing and its machinists all move to S. Carolina - Boeing gets its cheap labor, and according to S. Carolina, their cost of living is lower, so machinists live as well there on lower income as they do here. And WA solves part of its traffic problem if Boeing goes away, and still loses a huge source of tax revenue. No matter what, Boeing wins, and WA and labor lose. That's what it looks like to me.

Sg

Just had a personal meeting with an IAM 751 business representative. Due to the Political aspect of everything they are unable to steer us toward our decision. However, Boeing has been having us watch live webcasts put on by executives and passing out all kinds of propaganda to sway the vote to yes. My personal opinion is that IAM national is in bed with Boeing. The marches and rally's that have been going on have been organized locally by actual workers like myself.

I asked the business rep about future program placement for planes like the 737max and it's just like I thought. Boeing can pretty much do whatever it wants when it wants. everyone is so worried about the 777X moving but we have to look at all other programs as well. It's a very scary situation but I'm a fighting machinist and I WILL be standing up for what I believe in tomorrow.

Good luck man.

Steeliedrew,

Do you know what you believe in? I'm not trying to be funny. I believe in the American middle class and middle class living, which came into being in part through labor unions. However, global corporations have neither the middle class nor Americans as their primary interest. It's about profit. And if they can make more profit by outsourcing your job to S. Carolina or to India or China, then that's what they'll do.

Good luck.

Sg

If you only take one thing from this thread, this is it. It's all theatre.

I'm blue collar to the core Salmo. My blood boils this evening and sleeping tonight will be next to impossible. I absolutely know what I believe in. You're correct, they will do what they're going to do.

[Bleeeeep!]!!! Suck my Fvcking dick.

Sounds like Boeing has had it's eye on moving for quite awhile now. The only reason they haven't left yet and might stay now is because of the ability to pay less and less each go around. In this instance cheating workers out of full pay for 20 years and getting tax free status. I bet Boeing has enough money to give each worker a million dollars and pay them full scale from the get go.

That pretty much sums it up.

The OP gets on here to "vent" and then gets all pissed off because everyone doesn't take the "poor me" attitude toward the union.

Vote the way you want and then live with the repercussions...be they positive or negative...Really pretty damn simple.

IAM 751 burnt one of the last bridges in 2008 during the height of the recession a 51 day shutdown. When settled...it was the same offer the Union proposed in the beginning. At least it was during prime hunting and fall Salmon fishing.