I just read an interesting report. Do fish feel pain? How do you all feel or think about it. I will post the report later on what the study concluded. I personal don't think they do. I will explain why later also.

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Just because I look big, dumb, and ugly, doesn't mean I am. It means I can stomp you for calling me it!

Thanks for the post!
fish do feel pain, they have many nerve centers in and around their nose and mouths. This has been the argument of alot of people against catch and release fishing. I personally am for catch and release ( with certain restrictions, and skilled fishers who know how to release a fish properly) but I can definatly understand that their is some truth to the argument; especially with smaller trout species that retain much more damage from being caught numerous times.
Just because they arent human doesn't mean they dont feel pain.
thanks.............<@)(((><

Short little note:
Fish do feel pain because they do have nerves in their mouths that are very similar to ours but the number of nerves in their mouths is much much less than our mouths. I dont know the exact number though. Sorry
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Ryan

[This message has been edited by RPetzold (edited 04-08-2000).]

Big Jim, Would you post that you don't think fish feel pain if this study you're going to lay on us says they do feel pain? I'm guessing not. So, I'm guessing it was a biased study suggesting that fish don't feel much pain. Let us know. We are interested one way or the other. Thanks, ..shtick

[This message has been edited by Fishtick (edited 04-09-2000).]

I think to some extent fish do feel pain. But when there in a river there only thinking of one thing and that is that spawning. I think fish like salmon and steelhead have such a strong will to spawn that it seems like they don't feel pain. This year while I was fishing on the Kalama I saw two six pound hatchery steelhead along the bank of a creek that dumped into the Kalama. I spent hours trying to coax them into biting and finaly I got the buck to bite. I landed it and thought to myself weather or not I wanted to kill it or not. The hen already had white stuff on it but the buck looked alright to keep so I knocked out. I had to knock the thing out at least three more times while I was cleaning it and finally after I was finished I threw the fish in the cooler and with no guts left in it the fish started floping around in the cooler over fifteen minutes after I cought it. I felt really bad for splitting up the couple and wondered how that fish couldv'e done that. I think the on explanation is that it had a strong will to live and be with it's spawning mate.

Iron, I have a real strong will to spawn also. I'm a repeat spawner. That has nothing to do with feeling pain. As a matter of fact, I'd bet that even right at the golden moment that if some being stuck a sharp hook in my mouth and yanked my head around I'd not only feel the pain I'd probably lose the moment! As for those 2 fish together in the feeder creek, was it the one that leads into the hatchery ponds (those, and other spawning creeks, are usually closed). And did they have their adipose fins clipped. It is quite possible that you killed a nate mate before they could do the right thing. If so, ouch! Painful in more ways than one. Now take this as "constructive" critisism; if you see another pair of spawning mates in a tributary creek likely ready to spawn together, please don't harrrass the buck into trying to protect their chosen spawning territory. Even if they were of hatchery stock they could have spawned a lot of progeny. ..shtick

[This message has been edited by Fishtick (edited 04-09-2000).]

I think fish and all other animals have to feel Pain. It's a natural defense. If they couldn't feel pain, and their only goal was spawning, then why would they ever run downstream when hooked? The ability to feel pain is a necescity for survival, think if a fish was bitten by a seal and didn't feel any pain, odds are that every salmon that got close to a seal, or any other predator would be dead. I'm sure i'm not the only one who's seen salmon in the river with bite marks on them. A bit off the point, but i had a friend who cut his finger to the bone with a fillet knife, and couldn't feel anything past the cut. Being the bright person he is, he was stirring a pot of boiling water with his numb finger, and saying "look mom, it doesn't hurt at all."

OK, here is why I don't think fish pain. I watched a demo on it one time. I guy took and hooked a fish in a large holding tank. He then allowed the fish to fight. As soon as he let up on the fish it stopped running and fighting. He was able to let it calm down. Then VERY slowly pulled the fish up to the surface. It never ran again. If fish feel pain like we do it would have gone into the fight/flight mode again. The fish had rested about two minutes. The original fight lasted about 15 seconds. The hook was in the jaw. The report I read was in Infisherman. It showed a study about how fish have nerves and the like but not the brain capacity to process all the data. Kinda like running Windows 98 on a 386. It can do one thing and not much else. I forgot the mag at work and will try to post a more complete report.

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Just because I look big, dumb, and ugly, doesn't mean I am. It means I can stomp you for calling me it!

Do fish feel pain my response is yes they do!as for Iron? let me get this straight you targeted fish in a stream that were attemting to spawn..... why did'nt you just clubem right there....real sporting
correct me if I'm wrong?


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Tight Lines
FISH ON ------<*)>><
Men are like fish we get into trouble when we open our mouths to much!!

[This message has been edited by Steelheader boy (edited 04-10-2000).]

Big Jim,

You may be big and ugly and can stomp me, 8^), but now you're also wrong. Don't know where Infisherman got it's information, but I got mine from basic biology and well, let's just say that I've disected a few fish over the years. (Of course they were all hatchery trout, except for an ugly bass once.) Fish have well develope central nervous systems, but not as well developed as mammals. They have every capacity to feel pain, and it serves them well - like the comments about predators. Since their nervous systems are not as well developed as mammals, they likely don't feel as much pain from a specific stimulus, like a hook in the jaw, as you or I would. Now I never used a microscope to look for nerve endings in a fish's jaw, but there are likely some there, and it's very doubtful that hook feels very good.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo,

What you've said is accurate. However, there are many people who relate the pain fish feel to the pain a human would feel from the same stimuli. This is an inaccurate and invalid comparison. Kind of like the fought out fish/marathon runner comparison, humans are not fish and vice versa.

I'm sure with the nerve endings in the mouth of a fish (there are plenty of them), they have the ability to feel "pain". Whether or not this pain is even remotely akin to the pain that humans feel is the question.

Good hearing from you again, Salmo G. Thanks for the input........


Fish on..........

I was once sitting in McDonalds enjoying a number 1 value meal (Big mac, Fries, Coke, and make it large). While eating the secret sauce drenched burger, I felt a huge thud in the roof of my mouth. I was instantly jerked through the roof of the building, and then tumbled to the ground. At that time I was drug down the street, as the flesh on my rump sizzled on the pavement. I gathered my senses, and ran towards the source of agony. When I got there, this giant ugly thing grabbed me by my "wang" and armpit,dunked me in a bucket of water for a couple minutes to shine me up, then held me up for a photo. He smiled and said, "boy, that one sure didn't fight", then threw me on the pavement, and then he headed for Burger King. Out of breath, I crawled back to McDonalds to lick my wounds. I can till you that I don't have many nerve endings in my melon, but that hurt like hell. I haven't eaten a number 1 value meal since that day. LOL

I may be wrong, but that is just my opinion, and you know what they say about those. I have disected fish too and remember the nerves. But we really do not know what animals are feeling or thinking because we don't speak their language. I will post the report ASAP. Hawk, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I bet that was a hell of a trip, or really good beer.

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Just because I look big, dumb, and ugly, doesn't mean I am. It means I can stomp you for calling me it!

You're killing me, hawk.

Battled any drones lately?

Seriously though, do you think a fish that you just landed would bite again if they felt serious pain from the hook, or do you figure their instincts are so strong or their memory so short as to explain this?

I've always wondered that after you land a fish you just landed minutes earlier...........any ideas?


Fish on..........

Is this like the old question of how do you make a woman have an orgasm?
(who cares?)

Why do some people feel the need to give me "CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISIZM" even though I said I regreted doing it? We all make mistakes in our lives and we can all look back and say "I shouldn't have done that." Remember hind sight is always twenty-twenty and remember that next time you critisize some one about something that they admitted that they were wrong in doing. Oh and if I didn't mention this they were both hatchery fish.

Now I'm really lost. What did that mean. I just wanted to tell you that I am back to eating at Micky D's again. Thank the Lord that neoprene waders stretch.

Iron,I understand you're response it was not ment to be personal attack I said correct me if I'm wrong ,well we were both wrong. Hindsite kinda like wife no 2# that was a bad dream,once I kissed fat chick.... too much beer.... glad I gave that up (The fat chicks )

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Tight Lines
FISH ON ------<*)>><
Men are like fish we get into trouble when we open our mouths to much!!