Can someone explain to me how our soldiers are fighting for our freedom? if we pulled all troops from Afghanistan or anywhere in the world today how would our freedom be less? To me it seems the the MIC has waged the most successful brain washing campaign in the history of propaganda on the US citizens. If you question this idea you are not a patriot. I can see how they are protecting the economic freedom of our corporations that is clear but does that equal our freedom? Am I less free if I have to pay more for something or I just cannot have it at any price? Constitutionally speaking.

I'm still trying to figure out who you were before your name change.

The ghost of Tom Joad

oh right, thanks. carry on Mr. Joad

This should be on a T-shirt.


'Murica!

Protecting Freedom and promoting Democracy is the guise used to protect American Economic interests. Plain and simple and I think you know that Mr. Joad.

All Recent wars are waged under false pretenses to protect American and English economic interests, Political interests, and last but not least to launder American tax dollars into the Military security industrial complex.


Look at the "Asian Pivot" We have no threats from anyone in the world, yet we are "Beefing up" our presence around China, in lockstep with steps by China and Russia to move off the dollar as the reserve currency for oil and other trading.
Look at the Military Posturing we are doing in the black Sea and Around Ukraine right now. Don't be blind to the real reasons behind these moves.

I know it just wondering what others see. I think people are blinded because of their indoctrination as children. I have noticed it is really ramping up, support for the military and support for police. Btw I on no way hold the soldiers responsible for anything , they are doing a job.

1984?

I am sure you would be OK speaking Canadian (Russian, Mandarin, wtfe), but not me. We should kick ass where asses need to be kicked.

The threat of knowing that crossing that "red line" will bring the wrath and might of the US is a great deterrent (or used to be) .

I hear they are planning to build some really nice Casino's in Crimea.

If the American people really wanted "Freedom" they'd take every politician who says "freedom" or "Democracy" in the same sentence as talking about invading another country to secure it and burn them at the stake.

A country full of sheep who think they are free is what we have.

Fish on...

Todd

Isnt it funny how the USG cites promoting democracy and freedom as the reason why we intervene with these other countries affairs, all while our freedoms erode daily here at home, and Democracy is all but gone and forgotten on US soil?

Where were you guys when we invaded Iraq over 10 years ago?

I supported it, I was wrong.

Maintenance.
The sun never sets on the US Empire.

However, from the onset, I thought that Iraq was gross misuse of the American military.

Clowning on those who supported it.

You?

Fish on...

Todd

We need to make the distinction of a Politician's justification for war and a Soldier following orders right quick. This debate is not on our Soldiers, rather the Politicians.

Soldiers overseas aren't fighting for OUR freedom. We already have ours. Get it? The only problem is the ones we fight for don't really want it. Like a 16 year old that gets a 3 series from Mommy and Daddy....Freedom is only really appreciated when it’s earned the old fashioned way. You can't just have it handed to you and expect it to work.

This is why we are losing our “Freedoms” everyday here in the US. None of us had to earn it on our home soil. Once enough is taken away, then the Tree of Liberty will be refreshed and the cycle will repeat. The Phoenix doesn't spring from partially burned logs, only ashes.

Oh yeah - one last thought. Soldiers can be Heroes. Cops? Not so much. They are nothing more than paid Jack Booted Union Thugs that couldn't care less about "Serving & Protecting" all the while throwing up the Blue Wall. To me, the only time a cop can be a hero is when he breaks the wall of silence otherwise they are 100% complicit. I learned this first hand and very personally last week. F' Cops (sorry Dogfish)

Best
Post
EVER

Probably being berated by tough guys like Tom Joad who was supporting it.

Sorry Apkd I assumed you were man enough to take it if you were man enough to stick your nose in. Don't act like you knew all along . It took years for the truth about the saudi's involvement to come out and it's only been about a year since the story fully developed. You lined up on the party party line just like everyone else.

And my ears are ringing from your and the test of the lefty stooges loud protest of Obamas action in Libya , Egypt , Syria and Ukraine . Because you are all so fair , righteous and consistent.

Mr Chode, dont you mean since you finally woke up and saw what crimes 'your party' perpetrated? The likes of AKPD, myself, and many other have for at least YEARS been providing evidence to the contrary on this and many other topics. Perhaps your eyes were wide shut, and ears were ringing, ...so loud you couldnt stand hear what anyone else was saying. Maybe because it wasnt the right person saying it, hmm?

Yes, I'm being defensive of my friends here, because your Stereotypes are inaccurate, tired, and old.

Actually true, and I am a VFW

Being labeled a Bush hater with no reason to hate. You just hated Bush because you were a hater and not only did you hate Bush for no reason you hate everything American and should move to Iran or Afghanistan or some place like that.

Bs SG you flailed with any information you could find to back up your non fact but feeling based belief . No one to this day anywhere has put together a factual and vaerfisble case that the Saudi coerced the us into attacking Iraq . That case is still being worked based on developments in Syria. You and hour friends belived something just like everyone else and went out and sourced anything you could to back it up. You were wrong on the facts bug right on the out come out of chance. Just like your economic spin is sourced from zero hedge. Pretty weak to claim victory specifically lacking condemnation of the current occupant of the White House doubling down on everything bush did .

Wtf? There were plenty of reasons for hating Bush Jr.
How about the war on the environment?

Are you a 'special' kind of liberal?

Right you are. I was just saying where I was figuratively 10 years ago in regard to the Iraq war for oil.

Once again you nailed it! now I just want to "nail" one of those...

It wasn't a war for oil then and it's still not a war for oil today. That fact proves that people that claim they were right about the Iraq war all a long were either toeing the party line or guessing. Most people guessed wrong and thought it was about Iraqi oil. It was about keeping the dollar as default currency for oil with out it our currency is worthless. Much much bigger than oil. Russia China and India right now are fighting to break that link.

An added bonus of the long, long list of lies used to justify The War on Terrah in Iraq extends far beyond keeping oil valued in US dollars around the world...it also was one of the greatest theft of trillions of US taxpayer dollars with the Military-Industrial Complex laundering the money thru the War on Terrah and transferring it directly into their pockets in history...probably THE biggest ever.

Fish on...

Todd

I always thought KK was speaking in hyperbole when saying you had your head stuffed so far up your ass that your windpipe and colon were one and the same. Apparently, I stand corrected.

Apkd A guy that has to go on the internet and ask others how to plant an apple tree has zero credibility on any issue. Along with speaking volumes about his itelleigence it also proves that the hardest day he ever worked was probably deciding what stack of papers to push from on side of the desk to the other.

Too much of a conspiracy for me Todd. It went the route it did and people figured a way to take advantage as they always do. It was not the motivating factor. I think this is some what proven by Obama's actions to continue with the bush era policies or even double down on them in some aspects. The money printing proves a lot too. For a party that does not believe in "trickle down" it's been there whole economic strategy .

Not a war for oil? OK ...I guess for people like you I should sit here and spend my time running through all the factors,including keeping the dollar as default currency, that motivated the beneficiaries of that war. To say the last and biggest of the easy picking oil fields was not a big part of getting control of Iraq and as much of the surrounding oil rich area is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as thinking the core agenda of the moneyed elite in control of the "two parties" is any different.

Iraq is the biggest beneficiary. China is the second biggest beneficiary currently taking more than half the oil pumped. Iraq is sitting on the 5 largest fields as it builds infrastructure to pump the oil itself one day. The petro dollar benefits every American not just the wealthy . Iraq was a threat to the Saudis they needed an army to stop that threat. Iran is a threat to the Saudis they need an army to stop that threat that battle is being fought in Syria. The Russians are helping Syria the Saudis need help stopping the Russians . That battle is being fought in Ukraine. See the pattern ?

So Shell,BP and Exxon, corporations that would never be in Iraq if we didn't invade, are investing billions to pump oil for China . Ok I get it now. Americans have to be the biggest suckers ever for send our military to be killed and wounded not to mention spending ....,um borrowing, trillions of dollars so Iraq could sell oil to China. I could say the same for doing that for Exxon,BP and Shell too. Well..I guess it would be OK if gas prices went down to one dollar a gallon in the USA....Not.
I predict that when production gets ramped up Exxon,BP and Shell will be the biggest beneficiaries along with a bunch of other foreign corporations on a lesser scale.
It looks to me like the Russians are getting a little pissy about the US expanding it's control over countries too close to Russia. Imagine if Russia was invading Panama or some other close to the US countries. Would the US just sit back and hope for the best?

Wall Street Journal 4/21/2014:
Companies including BP BP.LN +0.85% PLC, Royal Dutch Shell RDSB.LN -0.29% PLC and ExxonMobil Corp. XOM +0.40% have invested billions of dollars to revive oil fields battered by decades of war, sanctions and neglect. But Iraq's government has been slow to modernize the infrastructure to move that oil from wells to tankers.

American and Iraqi engineers struggled to boost output amid the violent aftermath of the invasion and U.S. occupation. The industry's big break came in 2009. BP and China National Petroleum Corp. signed a 20-year deal to boost production at Rumaila, one of Iraq's biggest oil fields, in an early bidding round. A year later, the country awarded new contracts to revive and expand several other fields, including the giant Majnoon, which Shell and Malaysia's Petronas are developing jointly.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304734304579514310330071386?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304734304579514310330071386.html

The military is just a goon squad for the Gubmint, and when we invaded Iraq "the Gubmint" and "Big Oil" were one and the same....and it doesn't matter where the oil goes so long as the money from it ends up in the Oil companies' coffers.

Wasn't all that oil supposed to make the war 'pay for itself'?

Fish on...

Todd

We certainly could do without the Military.

The Military has never done anything for us.

Sanctions should be enough to stop the Russian's from seizing the rest of Ukraine. I mean you see the way Putin jumps every time John Kerry, Joe Biden or Barack speaks.

Independent fishing environmentalist, or IFE.

Sorry to enter the jerkfest so late.

What about taking the fight to our enemies >

Where sport fishing management is concerned, we have met the enemy and they is us.

The Bleeding Hearts will say that taking the fight to our enemies only resulted in creating a bunch more little enemies. There is a little bit o' truth to that, which is why I prefer nukes. I would have solved the "terrorist problem" 48 hours after 9/11 and saved us trillions. Go big or go home. This is why I'm not the Commander and Chief. Not because I would nuke the SH!T outta people, but because I would have saved us Trillions (and thus NOT enriching the Military Industrial Complex).

There's a lot of mis-placed Military hate in this thread, which is puzzling & disconcerting because EVERY. SINGLE. LAST. THING. in your modern, comfy 1st World American life was provided to you in some manner or another from our past & present men and women in uniform.

Way to sleep under the blanket and then question the manner in which it was provided.

So if YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH, I heard Canada & France are accepting applications.

As an Independent myself, no side is to blame. We're all to blame. We keep electing chitty poli-hacks. It's not the soldiers...it's DC and it's all the same coin. We've had a really long run of chitty politicians on both sides of the aisle, so here we find ourselves. So as a start, stop electing chitty politicians!

I do believe we are extremely spoiled as an American population as a whole and that's why we fight over arranging deck chairs. Our poor are the world's richest. That's doesn't mean don't help the poor....that means stop and think about what that means. It means YOU are in the top 5% richest people on all of earth. YOU! You may not feel like it, but brother...you are. The 99% drove to their little protests in a Prius; filmed their panty wads on their I-phones while wearing North Face jackets, Abercrombie skinny jeans while sipping their Starbucks. DYK that Starbucks foam makes an excellent curly, ironic mustache wax in a pinch? Huh. Lamps...the entire lot of em'.

If you don't like the system that got you here, move to Russia or China. Have any of you arseholes ever spent any real time in the real China like I have? If not, STFU and enjoy the hell outta what little you feel like you have everyday. You have it so good you can't even comprehend.

In this country, our freedom as provided by our military throughout our entire history, has allowed for pursuit of free thought. Since day one. The only place on earth like it. Look at what we have developed since 1776 and then look at the entire rest of the world. The last thing the middle east gave us was the abacus. Our soldiers are responsible for that free pursuit of thought. I suggest lots of folks start using it, lest the Soldiers gift that so often goes unappreciated, goes to waste.

If you can't see that...get off your government / military R&D funded and developed computer and internet and go live in a hut.

Edit: My PC just spit a bunch of game tickets out at me. Did I just WIN the interwebz?

As long as corporations are people and money is free speech, we are all fuked.

No - you are not fuked. You have free thought and you can vote. Those above principles are not set in stone and can be changed with the political winds. That's another great thing about 'Merica. You can change it. Go attempt that in North Korea or even Great Britain.

BTW - I don't agree with Corps as people. However, money IS free speech as protected by the 1st and as it should be. It is my inalienable right to give my own money to causes that speak to me. Just as you can. It just sucks for us poor folks huh? So go invent something, get rich and level the playing field. Again, this is America and you are ALLOWED to do that. Your odds are supremely better here than anywhere else on the planet.

I know what I'm saying may sound trite and may sound naïve and is "out of reach" for many of us...but its not.

.

FP brings out the heavy weapons.

.

48 hours? How 'bout now??

Inquiring minds....

I knew my posts would bring FP outta hiding!
I like to play devil’s advocate and I like to put it out there just to get the convo going. Mixing it up is a healthy, good thing.


My point, which was obviously missed is ...our freedoms as provided by military allowed us the free thought required to invent everything off that entire list. Not that the military actually invented those items (or many others), but they gave us the catalyst and protection to pursue our dreams & passions.

As far as Soldiers or Cops, I believe there is a HUGE distinction & difference. The Modus Operandi, charter and structural set-up for each system are entirely different. Their sworn duties are entirely different. Soldiers are there for our enemies. To our modern cops, we are the enemy.

I do agree that many ex-Military do find their way into LE and that can be problematic once the Blue Wall group think kicks into play. A lot of ex-military miss the "action" and in an absence of said "action, re-create it on our streets. The military is not a union. LE is and that's entire basis for corruption. Sheriffs are the only elected LE's. All other factions of LE serve as political appointments. You can get yourself hanged in the Military. When was the last time you even heard of a Cop getting outright fired or put on leave without pay - even after killing citizens & lying about it? Exactly.

As far nukes - that's another post for later.

EDIT: BTW - very nice use of NWA.

But they make those Sonex 28L stock pots for Mini WSM's.
Maybe just nuke the Kyber Pass area.

.

?

.

China just needs to keep loaning us money and it will be a bloodless coup.

What a perfect thread! Just made for an FP tirade, which is so entertaining because I can agree and disagree with him all in one thread; maybe even in one post. And the 2Many invasion, combining the best of sex and war, . . . I should be home opening a cool one.

I would fight for the girl in the boobie bottoms shot.

WTF is South CARONINA?

she should just take that shirt off and throw it away..

Thanks for the pics 2many and agree that there are no wars without poontang. "First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women". Or something like that...

I believe I made my earlier point in this thread. I'm not all America rah rah and we have our warts, but I do believe we have it best here so at least try to appreciate it and those that protect it.

So to answer my Nuke statement...you gotta hear me out on this one. Its a doozy.

I believe we had a VERY short window after 9/11 to do pretty much whatever we wanted. Even Russia would have stood down (pre-Putin power trip). The entire world was on our side and would have understood an aggressive response. So as such, I would have used small, low yield nukes in 3 - 4 strategic non-populated areas (Afghan, Paki wastelands...I'm not psycho) and filmed it. Sure a few goat herders would get vaporized, but lets not cry over a few spilt goat herders (name the movie reference for +10 man card points). Then break into a WW emergency Presidential broadcast immediately afterwards with film footage and demand that all terrorist sponsoring countries hand over dead or alive the top "Deck of Card" terrorists, including Bin Laden, to the American consulate within 72 hours for face annihilation. I'd like to include the House of Saud in this, but lets not get ahead of ourselves

Once nobody responds on the first demand (as expected), then lay waste to an Afganistan & Pakistan population center of choice (or three...you know...for "test purposes and science"). Wash, rinse, repeat until hair is silky smooth. Collect terrorists and conclude the war within a month (as expected). As proven, terrorists only respect and respond to extreme force and strength. So call their bluff in the ultimate way. You don't pull a gun unless you expect to use it to its maximum effect. All we did in Iraq and Afghanistan (and Nam) was show our gun and look where it's got us.

Believe it or not, this saves lives and prevents long drawn out wars. As horrific as it was, Truman was right. Millions upon millions of Americans and Japanese would have died if we didn't drop Fat Man and Little Boy and instead choose a land invasion (yeah...good luck with that). Not to mention that it would have probably taken years and years while slowly bankrupting us (sound familiar?).

War was not meant to ever be televised. Nam taught us this. In the first gulf war, reporters and cameras were already on the beach filming our special forces landing for cripes sake! Dresden could never occur today. We are too handicapped by the modern media to do what needs to be done. So go old testament and televise a nuke. War = over.

But alas and to my original point, this doesn't enrich the MIC - so its a non starter. Rest assured Bush wanted to nuke, but Cheney (Halliburton) talked him out of it. They're all puppets looking to get rich.

And now as result, we have leftover surplus military MRAPS on our streets plus trillions more debt. 'Merica fvck yeah!



That should get things going around here....

Nukes were an effective tool when we dropped them on Japan, and they probably did save a lot of soldiers' lives (at the minor cost of a couple hundred thousand Japanese civilians who had nothing to do with any of Japan's transgressions against us).

Nowadays, everyone's got 'em, and that's why nukes will never be used again. Payback would be a bitch, to say the least.

Like FP said, there is no real threat to our borders from foreign attack. Our military is kept excessively strong because it employs a lot of people and keeps the "freedom of speech" flowing to the defense contractors.

If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill.

You liked that didn't you? I told you it was a doozy! Are you not entertained?



+1 infinity. That's the most intelligent thing said in this thread so far.

Wow....that was the most spot on thing I have heard in some time.

What a tool. Add up all the taxes you pay fed, state and local if corps took more you would have negative income. What freedoms are corps taking away? You work for the gubmit don't you ? only a gubmit stooge could be that farking stupid and still be employed.

I appreciate people who can admit they are wrong. You where woung then and you are wrong now about corporate power. Probably take ten years for you to figure that out too.

Why do you keep changing your name? Were you Theking or elvis some time back a few name changes ago?

No more wrong than you or anyone else. Corporations wield immense power but saying they conspire to take the country to war for profit is a whole different level. We have the Rothschild , NWO, bankers , oligarch theories . There is one absolute truth here and that if two people know something eventually via the law of permutation everyone that wants too will know about it. In the last 50 years of war someone would have said something and provided diffinative proof. Saying that corps conspire and take us to war for profit is the big foot of conspiracy theories. Do they take advantage of profit from and influence? Absolutely. Conspiracy theories are a shortcut to thinking and the are a tool used by the small minded to create an illusion that the conspiracy theorist is somehow smarter or in possession of a special set of facts that no one else has. I also see people that are control freaks are prone to conspiracy theories. Who cares why I change my name and what difference does it make does it make you feel less in control ?

"If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill."

Definitely one of the better quotations here on the dark side, ever.

43-8,

You're talking (writing) a bit like a control freak yourself. Settle down.

It's suddenly occurred to me that 43-8 and FP are one and the same. Both make posts that I find much to agree and disagree with all in one post. Top quality and more fun than reading deep philosophical textbooks.

Sg

FP you are like a chub there is no bait you can refuse.

It's more than good enough to be my new sig line. Well done Fleaflickr02 sir!

Edit: additional credit to Evo for the Rage...

Double Edit: credit to FP on the two shores / isolation theory. That is true and we are unique by geography which gives us a distinct tactical advantage. I'd add that America was also unique in that it had to be "discovered" and thus populated much later than most other places (ancient Asia, Middle East and Europe). We didn't get carved up like Europe and we have extreme levels of natural resources (historically). That's the recipe for Empire building right there. How long will it last?

You admitted you supported it and that you were wrong. I was against it and was in the minority that got shouted down as a hater. Now the label is "conspiracy theorist" used to discredit and belittle anyone speaking out against our perverted corpocacy or questioning the official meme. Same old sh!t.

I regards to your multiple names, control of what? WTF are you talking about. It just seems like common courtesy to be consistent with a name so people know who they are talking to. At least you could be upfront about it and let people know your new name. On the other hand,maybe you have a dissociative personalty disorder and can't help it.

You choose to live there Keta don't cry about it it's unbecoming. At least I know who to go to if I need clarification about this sites rules in case my mom is busy.

The Pentagon reports today Al Qaeda and terrorism threats are up due to.........Wait for it...............

" WASHINGTON (AP) -- A surge in the number of aggressive AL-Qaeda affiliates and like-minded groups the Middle East and North Africa poses a serious threat to U.S. interests and allies, the State Department said Wednesday in reporting a more than 40 percent increase in terrorist attacks worldwide between 2012 and 2013.

The department also singled out Iran as a major state sponsor of terrorism that continues to defy demands it prove its atomic ambitions are peaceful even as Washington pursues negotiations with Tehran over its nuclear program.

In its annual global terrorism report, the department said that losses in AL-Qaeda's core leadership in Pakistan and Afghanistan "accelerated" the network's decentralization in 2013. That has resulted in more autonomous and more aggressive affiliates, notably in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, northwest Africa, and Somalia, it said."

So a more than 40% spike due to the fact we've been too good at killing their leaders

Sorta makes one wonder where we'd be if we weren't so good at killing their leaders??

Also sorta makes one wonder what it would be like living in an America where a drone strike could end a BBQ. I'd think that success would just create more American terrorist

But then one would have to define success. Does success equal piece and prosperity or does success equal more money for more drones.

"Success" means a never ending transfer of tax dollars to the pockets of the MIC...luckily we have a never ending supply of idiots who believe the "War on Terrah" is about terrorism who will continue to support it .

Fish on...

Todd

Hence my Adolf Hitler quote