Personally I think they made the right decision to stop stocking the Puyallup. I hate saying that because that is my home river. I caught my first steelhead there in 1968 and had many great days on it my friends.
The hatchery returns were beyond pathetic, especially the last 10 years or so. Sure the river was open later in the season, but what good is angling opportunity without fish?
I see lots of folks post that more fish need to be planted. That may work on some systems but it doesn't guarantee more fish will return.
If they planted four times as many fish on the Puyallup and got back 36 fish or so instead of 9, would anglers be happy?

I wish I had the answers to all that ails PS steelhead, but I don't. It is a damn shame it has come to this.
SF

A wild broodstock program will kill far more wild steelhead than a catch and release fishery would...and closing a catch and release fishery wouldn't do anything to help the stock, either.

Of all the things in Puget Sound that have bad effects on wild steelhead the thing that is amongst those that have the least effect are hatchery fish, and hatchery programs as they are now are being closed will also have the least beneficial effect of all the things we can do to help wild steelhead.

I'd wager that WDFW/NOAA-F will get their collective schit together and the permits will be forthcoming, and the programs will continue on just as they have the last several years.

I'd also wager that you will see at least one CnR season on a Puget Sound stream by the spring of 2016...if it's not held the spring of 2015 first

I find that the oft-used accusation by many that WDFW's steelhead "management" is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic are vociferously supporting a course of action that does exactly the same thing.

Fish on...

Todd

That'l be fun.....a combat C&R season.........



Just kidding. Hope it happens.

C&R sucks! Get real the damn fish don't need to be abused for the sake of 20,000 STS fans! Wild fish aren't making the comeback everyone wanted or anticipated because it got f'd up over many years. Just because mother nature doesn't want to award your dumb @ss doesn't mean you should be able to just throw 55 million to the pound smolts out there so your tackle shop can get cleaned out every day!

Get em' boys!

Kill the predators, improve habitat, then worry about hatchery fish. It's really really really really really simple.

It's probably harder to kill the predators because of the Greenie blow back than it is to fight this fight. As much as some want it, they ain't gonna let whole sale Pinniped slaughter happen. EVER. Commorants? Hell, lets grab a box of shells!

In the end the injunction had nothing to do with DFW being in compliance. The state did what was requested in the same manner every hatchery program in the PNW has done.

Keep in mind there will still be a hatchery steelhead program operating under the same, but revised, HGMP which has not been approved by NOAA and has not been issued NEPA coverage.

Are you aware how many hatchery programs in Washington, Oregon and Idaho are fully covered? How about separate permits require for fishing over listed stocks? The options are either do what is requested while managing in a responsible and defensible manner and continue operation (or fishing); or, voluntarily cancel all hatchery programs because the feds don't have the ability to do what is required to protect the states and tribes.

As far as CNR over wild stocks there is a large difference between a stock healthy enough to have a harvest season and a stock that is healthy enough to have a CNR season.

So if it is deemed that there is enough wild steelhead to catch and keep like on the OP then that should meet your criteria of strong enough to have a harvest season?

Was that post directed at me or just had my name in the RE order?

The state has deemed that there are enough wild steelhead on some OP rivers for a harvest. I myself would like to see the returning numbers higher before harvest.

What injunction are you talking about? The consent decree? That has everything to do with the WDFW *not* being in compliance, and being called to account.

A C&R fishery offers significantly more time on the water (opportunity) than a catch and kill. If a run can sustain 100 fish killed that is equal to 100 killed (duh) for 2,000 C&R'd at 5% release mortality. For better or for worse, recreational fishery managers rate a fishery based on opportunity, the chance to be on the water fishing and the C&R fishery maximizes the number of days folks can be fishing.

I remember back in the early 80s when it was necessary to close the blackmouth fishery in PS because of allocation imbalances. What was interesting is that fishing wasn't closed. Salmon fishing was open (coho kill, blackmouth C&R) but folks treated it like a closure. Despite waht anglers say when interviewed (I fish to be on the water, outdoors, with my buddies) there are a lot who go fishing to kill something and if they can't kill it they won't go. This mindset needs to be clearly pointed out to managers, who still think more in terms of time on the water than fish in the boat.

Until I moved to Washington state, everything outside of stocker lakes was CnR in Colorado. I killed and ate maybe 1 outta every 100 fish caught and that was always while back-packing into under-pressured lakes and streams (less food to carry). CnR was never a problem for the general population because "a fish is too valuable of a resource to catch only once" or something like that and everyone understood its a finite resource.

Only until I moved to Washington, did I learn that "whack and stack" was a birth right competition as to who was the manliest man of the day. This is part of the reason why the fly crowds often "look down upon" gear fisherman out here. Now the situation is different out here with ocean going fish; fish that die during spawning; Commericals and Tribes all vying for sellable harvest. Colorado does not face the same gauntlet, so CnR and the mindset that follows easier to accomplish there. Fair is fair. I have been guilty of the same "whack and stack" thinking since moving here and to tell you the truth, it was learned behavior for at least me. I was shocked when the "Priests" came out at first, but then when in Rome. Now after 8 years here, I place value on what I can bring home when I never did before. This has to change...for us all.

However, back to my point about "a fish is too valuable of a resource to catch only once", that thinking has yet to fully ingrain itself in Washington. There's still too much pride and ego / sense of worth to come home empty handed. As an outsider to the state, ya'll need to stop placing so much value on your manliness by how many fish you kill. I need to as well. Very few Sporties are in the financial situation that they must kill fish to eat (those folks are the exception and should be allowed to harvest via tax return status). For the rest of us, its our "Washington Ego" that's getting in the way. Sorry, I just call it like I see it. Flame away Gents - I have nukes waiting for you but at least I'm honest.

Another transplant telling locals how to live their lives...

Nope. You do want you want to and live your life how you want to live it bruddah. I know I can do better myself and that I'm only in control of myself and can only ask that others join in. That call is on you. Just don't ever be surprised when there are negative outcomes and consequences to any action. Just don't ever be surprised when repeated actions don't provide different results. Its called "reaping what you sow". I call it like I see it. If that upsets you or anyone else, its on you for helping it get to this point...not on me for pointing it out. The message is harsh, but I'm still just the messenger. Deal with it or don't. I don't care.

Nick,

Outsider or not, when it comes to trout and steelhead (and steelhead are trout), you get it. The numbers of naturally produced fish are too few to support traditional catch and kill fisheries since about 1968 (when WA human population was about 2.8 million). The reason is too damn many people and too damn much habitat degradation resulting from too damn many people. Worse yet, most PS rivers can no longer produce enough wild steelhead to even support CNR fishing, although a handful might if marine survival increases enough. Anybody who thinks the outcome has to include wild steelhead kill fishing or none at all is just setting themselves up for disappointment. Or maybe they're just at the end of an evolutionary change, incapable of adapting to changing conditions.

Under current conditions I can't think of any hatchery steelhead program in PS that makes sense, biologically or economically. When you cannot even get enough hatchery adults back to the rack to meet broodstock needs, it's not possible to call the program viable. And most PS hatchery winter run programs are hovering around that value lately. Just to make sure I'm not being misunderstood, I'm not opposed to hatchery steelhead programs. I just want to support programs that achieve acceptable biological and economic results.

Meanwhile, I'm going to focus my efforts on perfecting bull trout streamer flies. They will probably look like chinook and steelhead smolts.

Sg

Just an FYI Todd, ALL fish that utilized in the Bogachiel program's first year were live spawned and returned to the river ... with ZERO mortality of those we got to the holding facility.

Thanks Salmo. I'm trying my best to understand, learn and be as respectful as I can be. I believe I have some of it understood in basic theory, but it’s awfully daunting for a new fella to pick up. Broodstock - what's that? Impacts - what are those? Escapements huh? Fishing politics – really? These are things I've never had to consider before in my previous life. I just went fishing and put more back than I took. It was simple then and it’s easy for me to come on here now and say that’s its simple. It’s simple right?

Then I get out here and it’s like...whoa!...I know nothing! I still think I know nothing except the part of "putting back more than you take". Doc tells me that all hatchery fish must die…so dag gummit they’re gonna get the wood if it’s the right thing to do. I'm trying to be a good, conscience new neighbor and I understand that I will never be considered a local (just like I'd never consider a Californian to be a local back in CO). I hope that the few board experts I’ve have had the pleasure of fishing with will tell you that I’m trying to be respectful of not only the resource, but of their knowledge, friendship and willingness to take in a newbie. It’s appreciated far more than I can ever repay or show. We are all transplants in some form or another aren't we? I just want to be a good neighbor; respect those that have come before me and to do the right thing. BUT, I still don't know what that right thing is in this situation? I want to be able to kill a brat for the table and I want to be able to release a wild fish. I just want to fish as do most here. But If that means getting off your rivers, then so be it and I just won’t fish here. That’s not sour grapes – that’s respect for the local's “waves” man. I don't want to, but I would. I'll just save up and go wet my line elsewhere like Todd, Sky-Guy, Stam, Vedder, BU and Fastwater style. Fastwater style particularly (that man IS the plan). So to TastySalmon's point I probably shouldn't lecture huh?

That being said, can a brother get a crib sheet on this chit? I didn’t know I had to go back to fishing school, but I will if it’s the right thing to do to be a better sportsman and ambassador to our sport.