So here's a fun tidbit for you fellow middle-classers out there... If, indeed, the minimum wage in Seattle should be $15/hr., what's that tell you about your current wage (which reports show has gone up very little on average since the 1970s)? Not that I needed statistics to show me, but to me, it means my purchasing power has steadily decreased relative to the same rate of inflation that is driving this proposed increase in the minimum wage. It pisses me off, and if it doesn't have that effect on you, my guess is it just hasn't hit you yet.

Looks like the pitchers and catchers were cobbling each other's goop until FP spoilt the party with some sanity. I prefer the garlic growers study in California when they raised the minimum wage and forced an entire industry offshore. Now the garlic you eat is fertilized with some Chinese dudes feces. Ho li fuk! sum ting Wong!

It's not Politics, its Economics 101.

You know that a group of Costco shareholders was upset about the wages that Costco paid.

One thing is for damn sure...when the TeaBaggers have anything to say at all their track record is perfect...they are wrong 100% of the time.

When the right wing fruitcakes say something will ruin the economy, they, too, have a perfect track record of being wrong 100% of the time.

And lastly...when Hankster tells you about that vaunted economy that he "votes for", he shares the same record as the TeaBaggers and fruitcakes...

He is wrong 100% of the time.

Based on those perfect track records I would figure a few things...Hank and JG are wrong, again, and that this will work out great.

Fish on...

Todd

I run a 100 person biz outside Seattle (so we're not directly affected) but I sure find the arguments against this -- other than the "total compensation" ones for tipped workers -- to be hollow.

YES it will increase some labor costs, that's the point.

NO I don't care if this means fast food costs $0.50 more per item, we'd all be marginally better off if we ate less of it anyways.

NO I don't find the Wal-Mart/big box retailers complaints valid -- especially when the enterprises are generating such large corporate profits and employees are paid well below the poverty line.

The small biz case (which again, I'm a part of) is the emotional center of this, and it could have an impact on some. But maybe we should consider this in more abstraction -- there are 2 questions -- should there be ANY minimum wage? If yes, then is the current minimum wage CORRECT? If there's no credible argument that it's too high presently (and I sure don't know of any), then maybe it's worth considering seriously that it's in fact too low.

I would listen to you on this subject if had even one shred of credibility...the last several years have had what? Two quarters of negative GDP?

How many times have you voted "for the economy" by voting for a GOP candidate that will assure you negative profits, negative income growth, negative GDP growth, poorer stock market performance?

That's right...every time. And you'll do it again.

For the economy.

Fish on...

Todd

And though you are clearly just quoting FauxNews to get your "negative territory", you know that slowing of the growth is not really "negative", right?

"Negative" is how your last GOP President that you voted for..."On the Economy"...left it.

Minus 4%.

That's "negative"...and that's what you vote for, not me. It's what you've voted for since you were 18, and will presumably vote for until the day you die...you will vote...

"On the Economy"

...by voting for the party that almost invariably is terrible for every phase of the economy, and has been for decades...and you'll do it by voting against the party...

"On the Economy"

...that is almost invariably better for every single phase of the economy, and has been for decades.

On the Economy...you should never be allowed to discuss "On the Economy" at all.

Fish on...

Todd

No, to be clear, I am saying that you constantly vote in direct contravention of your purported beliefs, that you know you are voting in direct contravention of your purported beliefs, yet you will continue to do so because there is no other way to vote GOP and vote "For the Economy" at the same time...because in that world that the rest of of live in...the "Real World", voting for the party that is bad for every single aspect of the economy while claiming to vote "For the Economy" is also known as...

"Being Stupid"

Fish on...

Todd

Nope. Nobody all that close actually.

I understand the logic behind there being a certain pile of money out there and if you cut the pie pieces bigger there will be less pieces to go around...it's an attractive argument.

There's also the idea that people with more money...especially those who are making minimum wage...spend more money. That makes for bigger pies.

So far my only contention in this thread is to point out the incontrovertible fact that TeaBaggers, Naysayers, Hank, and JG have all managed to be 100% wrong with their constant doomsday predictions, so when the TeaBaggers, Naysayers, Hank, and JG all agree that this will ruin the economy and turn us into a Communist country...well, you can understand why I'd assume that they will all be 100% wrong again.

Sooner or later, I guess, if they make the exact same prediction over and over again, they'll eventually be right. Maybe this time will be the one.

But I doubt it.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. If you are bored by being told that you are a total fuckin idiot for voting GOP "On the Economy" when every GOP administration has been nothing but a disaster for the economy in every single economic indicator for decades, there are a few ways you can be less bored about it.

One, stop doing it. It's the best way to not be called a fuckin idiot...stop acting like one.

Two, continue being an idiot...but stop coming on here and telling us about how you are voting GOP "For the Economy" when anyone with five minutes and Google can see that anyone doing that is a total fuckin idiot.

Those are your two options...somehow I think you'll choose Option Three, which is not only continue to defy all logic by voting GOP "On the Economy", but also come here and tell us how much of a fuckin idiot you are for doing so.

I've been told that a blind man can't see.

Apparently that is true?

First, listening to Dan is a good suggestion on many many topics.

That said, I find it interesting that Hank is willing to listen to economists on this topic, when he actively shuns the overwhelming opinions of climate scientists in their area of expertise.

Because this one feeds Hank's preconceived notions, plus FoxNews would agree with it. The other one goes against both.

Fish on...

Todd

I visited my buddy in San Diego recently. He is a doctor there. Over beers he was ranting about the future of this country based on his encounters with patients. He said that a lot of the people he sees from all walks of life are simply confrontational, argumentative, think they know everything, and think they can do no wrong. He said he feels a big part of his job is just dealing with people's baggage, and not health. He has trouble helping these people because they are so adrift in their own world where they are exemplary and everyone around them, including doctors they went to see, are idiots.

During this conversation we laughed because he was essentially describing the Republican Party and tea party attitude to the T. Attitude, it is what is wrong with America and it's politics.

Remember the whole, do unto others as you would have others do unto you thing? Seems like it was forgotten last century.

Cost of everything is up more than 45% in the last 10 years so let's inflate wages as well . It's been tried time and again and never worked so no reason not to try it again. There is a bigger issue in the economy and band aids won't fix it. Blaming Obama won't help , he is the exact incompetent fool the powers that be wanted sitting in the big chair. Everyone was appropriately distracted by either his race or natural origin so his lack of ability was unimportant. Let's double down on that and give the twat a shot in 16 because it's a woman's turn to be the engineer on the train running out of track that is the US. One thing is sure no one will take credit for their part when this whole [Bleeeeep!] house goes up in flames.

I don't know if Hank had a stroke or what, but using me to bolster his side of the argument may not be his best move.

Heysoose,

Dan, even a stopped clock is right twice a day,