I know that many of you won't be coming to the the May 8th meeting in Lacey. That is the reason for this post. We will be attempting to begin the process of where we stand on many issues...it is these many issues that can and will be our greatest strength but right now because of a lace of cohesiveness they are our greatest weakness. The purpose of this post is to allow you the opportunity to post issues that you are concerned about, they will be addressed at the May 8th meeting...I do not expect this meeting to completely establish where we stand but without a a beginning there won't be an end. Please make these posts as simple, yet as clear as possible.

Thanks alot and tight lines to everybody!!

Jim

I know the time and date but the location is where St.martins or the library..Thanks

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Tight Lines
FISH ON ------<*)>><
Men are like fish we get into trouble when we open our mouths to much!!

Jim,
Establish a working relationship with the commercials and Native Americans.
Three powerful organizations working together will have a unifying message to the state goverments about where their policies of saving Salmon should go. It will also send a message on how a lot of that federal ESA money they get should be spent.

to make the f&w commissioner position not political, ref mr shanks who the commercials got rid of.

I went to my south west anglers meeting and our president Larry Swanson reported on a meeting he attended (PFMC)anyway he told us as of right now there will be no FALL CHINOOK FISHING IN THE COLUMBEIA RIVER OR ITS tributaries(except the Elocomen river)
something to do with the indian allotment.He also said whatever this groups name is ,is going to start a lawsuit against the indians
on this issue.I'm sorry I can't remember the name of the org. that is going to do this after hearing what he had to say it pi--ed me off so much I pretty much just blanked out the names of the meeting and the org. name.I can't believe the dept fish and game could let this happen.I'M SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THE POOR INDIANS AND THERE FISHING RIGHTS,WE HAVE RIGHTS TOO...OH YEA THE GILLNETTERS GET THERE SEASON AND AN EXTENSION.IS'NT THAT JUST DUCKY ????

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Bob Dawson


[This message has been edited by dawhunt (edited 04-21-2000).]

Hey guys,
I will respond to that which has been posted:

Steelheader Boy...Lacey Timberland Library right next to St. Martins

LandTuna...This has been an overwhelming theme from many many people...definitely on the agenda

JQ...Now theres a really tough one...could you elaborate some ideas on that one??

Dawhunt...In the process of checking into this one!!?? Doesn't make sense to me by any stretch...so I will poke around...what is your presidents name and do you have number for him??

Lets keep em rolling in guys...even if you are in a wait and see mode regarding WAA...I don't care...we still appreciate and want everybody's input.

Thanks,

Jim

Dawhunt,

More info....You are sadly correct as of right now, all lower Col. Tribs will be closed to Fall Chinook. There will be an August Commercial Season in which and I quote; "they will be targeting Sturgeon, by using a 9" mesh" Now you know what I know other than they are expecting a larger run of Coho than last year.

Jim

The really sad part of this is the fact the commercial guys are getting thier "targeted" Sturgeon fishery in August. Why note June you ask as the lower river is full of Sturg then? Cause there aren't any Chinook to incedentally catch in June...There's a Grand that the businesses in Chinook & Illwaco won't get from me this year.

Enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. If we can't all agree on the need for more fish cops, we won't agree on anything! Our legislators are probably thinking they're heroes for barely getting the game agent force back to the pre-budget crisis status, but it's totally pathetic, still.
One other item: This "motto" may not be the ideal for WAA, but we can adopt it un-ofishally, to remind ourselves to get along. "Sport fishing, not sport bitching!"

I'm with Scaly on enforcement, but on a local note I would like to see some action on the removal of the lower dam on the Elwah!

And the punishment should be tougher...


Don't mean it to sould like bitchin. Just seems to happen without trying....

Right on, Corky.
And Barn: I wasn't referring to "constructive bitchin'." I meant the bitching between ourselves, over the variety of sportfishing species, techniques, etc., that needs to stop. Before it becomes an Olympic sport in itself!

Howdy,
I've been bashing around an idea that as far as I can tell, might be the answer to the problem's our anadromous fisheries have faced. The problem with the Boldt decision was the resource was put in the middle of a financial battle between 3 faction's (sport, commercial and Tribal) Nobody's fault. Just keeping up with the Jone's. None of the user group's can be blamed for trying to get their equal share. Now here's the idea, we abolish the state control, and put the system's under the various Tribe's more than capable management. The most productive river's in the State are the one's that fell through the crack's of that monumental display of senility. Don't think you wouldn't get more bang for you license fee if the Tribe's were in a true position to start the recovery. I,m totaly not convinced habitat, ocean condition's ect. are the root of the problem. The mile's of streambed suitable for spawning I see, are missing reasonable number's, while some crazy voodoo number's are used to dole out fish. I think a spawning bed should be in every good hole's tailout. Don't you. Thank you for all of your effort's, but my opinion is that dfw is ineffective at best, and at worst a pawn to commercial interest's. If you can't beat'em join'em. The Tribes have the fast-track on a federal level because of the iron-clad treaty's. Thing's could get real good, real fast. 10 fish a day you'all?

Humpie I have to admit that I really like ones ability to think outside the lines in a rational way...you have done so....I have never once explored this idea...though it is a fact that many of the rivers with tribal hatcheries seem to have more fish....certainly food for thought and appreciated.


Enforcement, Enforcement....It is strange,that though enforcement agent numbers are down...I got checked more times this year than ever.....even twice while Duck Hunting...first time in my life while Duck Hunting and it happened twice.

Anyway....enforcement noted.

Jim

I know the issue of no nets has been beat up and beat up and beat up, but the evidence is there from other states like Florida and California. No nets and the numbers of fish have increased dramaticaly. If this is platform formation, I for one would like to see no commercial nets as part of it.

[This message has been edited by salmonhead (edited 04-22-2000).]

Don't forget Texas,they and both of the others,have more then doubled there fisheries and tourism for the sport fishing group.I'm talking more money then the commericals ever brought in,you've all seen the report on how much money sport fishing brings in and jobs created then the commericals.Why do we need gillnetters now anyway when almost every fish you buy in the store is FARM RAISED ????

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Bob Dawson

Mandatory fin-clipping of all hatchery produced salmon & steelhead; to be released in proper controled numbers and timing so as not to be a significant detriment to native fish progeny survival. - Proper C&R only for all wild native anadromous fish; and only where the remaining numbers are strong enough to withstand up to a 7% mortality on the less than 30% average of them that are actually hooked. - NO MORE NETS! Anyway it's possible to rid the N.W. of commercial and Indian gillnetting. As has been correctly pointed out, B.C. farmed kings (and even some farmed steelhead) and Atlantic farmed salmon have augmented the huge commercial take of healthy Alaskan salmon stocks to provide the markets were adequate supply. There has got to be a way to negotiate with the Indians, and commercials, to convince them not to net native salmon and steelhead into extinction! They can't possibly be so ignorant or uncaring about the future as to not listen to offers of other viable compensastion for their loses, BEFORE THEY LOSE IT ALL ANYWAY! Definitely invite Indian and comm. rep.s to your meetings and have a cordial pow wow about the realities and dire straights of a continuation of the status quo. Ask them, "Would you rather run out of the resourse &/or be cut off by ultimate necessary federal treaty overiding decree, or would you rather gain this..... and that......and even that..... in return instead. They must have some inate ability to reason rather than live precariously for the moment or to just want to buck the white sportfishers for a hollow vindictive victory that will ultimately cost them all. - Steve

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reel Truth:
[B]Mandatory fin-clipping of all hatchery produced salmon & steelhead; to be released in proper controled numbers and timing so as not to be a significant detriment to native fish progeny survival. - Proper C&R only for all wild native anadromous fish; and only where the remaining numbers are strong enough to withstand up to a 7% mortality on the less than 30% average of them that are actually hooked. - NO MORE NETS! Anyway it's possible to rid the N.W. of commercial and Indian gillnetting. As has been correctly pointed out, B.C. farmed kings (and even some farmed steelhead) and Atlantic farmed salmon have augmented the huge commercial take of healthy Alaskan salmon stocks to provide the markets with adequate supply. There has got to be a way to negotiate with the Indians, and commercials, to convince them not to net native salmon and steelhead into possible extinction! They can't possibly be so ignorant or uncaring about the future as to not listen to offers of other viable compensastion for their loses, BEFORE THEY LOSE IT ALL ANYWAY! Definitely invite Indian and comm. rep.s to your meetings and have a cordial meeting to discuss the realities and dire straights of a continuation of the status quo. Find a way to keep angry confrontational types at bay so as to avoid ruining any chances for negotiation. Have substantiated FACTS to back up our net adverse position. Then ask them, "Would you rather run out of the resourse &/or be cut off by ultimate necessary federal treaty overiding decree, or would you rather gain this..... and that......and even that..... in return instead. They must have some inate ability to reason rather than live precariously for the moment or to just want to buck the white sportfishers for some kind of hollow vindictive victory that will ultimately cost them - and the rest of us. - Steve

I just hve two ideas I like. First of all ban the nets. Gill neting is a way of the past (strip mining,Clear cutting) But you cant just take there way of life away. Buy the licences back and help them set up pens to raise fish. This way they can still make a living. ( Every once and awhile the pens break and lots of fish get away)
Second did not Oregon buy the fishing rights back from the Indains? Sounds good to me. Hate to say it but money talks.
KEEP THE RIVERS CLEAN

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dank

One of the first things should be to appoint Jim or another as a treasurer. Write up an agreement to open an account under the WAA name with treasurer accountability. Start a donation drive first to help with publicity costs, because publicity will be important to get the kind of numbers that will be effective for the causes. After the WAA has official platforms and membership directives then set up a reasonable membership fee. Large numbers of people should provide the necessary funding w/o putting up a lot of money per person. Have a written agreement that in the event the WAA does not make it off the ground that the original donators would either get the donation amount back or have a predetermined fishing cause or charity that the treasury fund will go to, such as river clean up projects or net pen programs. Got to have some financial funding to get it going quickly. Somebody mentioned getting help from NSIA for funding. ..shtick

Man oh Man Guys....great ideas....have been up to my eyeballs the last couple of days...what fun to come back and see all these posts! May 8th is going to be one busy meeting...for those of you coming get prepared to work...for those of you who can't make it keep posting here with ideas and I will update here on the 9th. Will be gone to the Wind all next week so I will get a couple of looks before then and thats it for this go round.

I really appreciate all the input!

Jim

Hello: I live in washougal,wa. and I work shift work, so it will be hard if not impossible to make your meetings but when the time comes for donations and membership dues,you have my mailing address I sent it, I believe when I read your intro. on the net.If you don't have it let me know and I will get it to you.I would like to help in anyway I can to get this org. started.


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Bob Dawson

I feel that Humpie is on the right track with his approach. We have been fighting the tribes and the commercial netters for years and have very little to show for it. We all agree that WDFW is pretty much incapable of doing what they are paid to do. Keep in mind however, that the reason for WDFW failure is not a result of the field staff but rather the Olympia suits, the guys and gals in the field really do care about our fish and how to protect them.

Having worked with the Quileute tribe's Natural Resource Department for two years I can attest to the fact that they really do want to see increased numbers of fish and improved habitat on their rivers. They have the backing of the Federal Government $$ and they are willing to spend the money, time and effort required to improve our rivers. Their motivation might be different than ours but their goal is the same...More fish in the rivers. Imagine what a force the sportfishermen and the tribes would be if they combined their efforts and cooperated with each other. Food for Thought...

having read all of the good idea's i think we do need to try to invole the native american's in what ever we as an association set our goals towards.
this may be difficult with some of the local's native am.'s as they view us as the enemy. it will need to be a large solid support of all the people we can get together
to show we want the same.

MORE FISH!

i see that we will need to find out whom and where we need to contact in each of the local n.a's to solictit their input.

i suggest we, and i will call, amd make afriend whom works for the puyallup nation as a customer and try to find out more.

thanks
elmtree

Howdy,
I had to post again to agree Slipperyfoot. Many of the individual's working WFD are a great asset to the cause. But not to beat a dead horse, I think enforcement is a major letdown. When I fish Bush Pt. for Humpie's and Coho, the beach fills with blatent poachers. A phone call produce's no response, so I'm the jerk who has to apply some peer pressure. Talk about an opportunity to generate revenue, a whole line of lawbreaker's waiting to pay a ticket. Anyway, the 2 week season this year after prime time, is what results. It's a lot easier to enforce when its flat out closed. The message has to be sent that in this day and age, the "Good ol boy" attitude won't be tolerated. Keep the faith friend's.

Jim, Wild steelhead release, state wide. Thats it. WILD STEELHEAD RELEASE ! State wide and mandatory. thanks.

Slippery Foot,
Right on!
Yes the future is in the combined strength of the Native Americans, Commercials and the sportsmen. As you said The problem is not the lower ranks of F&G but admin policy dictaded by outside powers.
With unity there is strength and though we differ on why we want wild fish in the river all three groups want the fish to return. If we can help each other out Native Americans, Commercials and sportsmen then we can go on to changing bad policies that are the main reason are fish are dying off.
It is good to see that many of us are over the 696 defeat and realize that what we once thought were enemy can be and should be our partners in saving wild fish.