A less dark topic, and as far as I know, neither liberal nor conservative, but currently vexing for me. My lot was mostly logged when I bought it so the seller could extract more money for it, and part of it needed to be cleared so a buyer could build on it. Fast forward a couple years, and a few braken ferns were growing down the hill in back of the house, and I was OK with that. They're green, until they turn brown in the fall, that is. But it's like they're an invasive fern and last year and this year are popping up all over. Twice this spring I've gone out and pulled up every one I could find, and the other day I noticed that there must be between 100 and 200 again already.

Is pulling them up not gonna' control them? Is chemical warfare necessary to control these buggers? I've pretty much decided they are about as welcome as scotch broom in the yard or on the property. What do ya' know about this stuff?

Sg

Crossbow (2-4-D) and Roundup mixed together will torch anything...

the problem with ferns is the spores, and the roots, you have to really kill the roots before you go waving them around (after pulling them) as the spores will spread all over the place creating new sets...

if you cant find Crossbow, Lily Miller Weed Be Gone has 2-4-D in it as well, mix it with concentrate Roundup (per directions), and spray the plants not dripping, but cover them, and they should be close to dead in 2 days, you can yank em out a couple days after that...

good luck, they can be a pain in the ass...

That's tough one to get rid of by mechanical means.
Straight, old fashioned vinegar will knock down weeds.
Works best on dry, hot days.

Don't know how it will work on bracken, but might be worth a test before bringing in the chemical warfare.

Long term, Agent orange might be more effective and botanically correct.

On a more serious note, bracken fern is associated with cancers and poisonings. Google "bracken ferns and cancer" for some detailed info. I'd get rid of the bracken fern and plant a more beneficial herb on the back-forty.

Plus it's exactly as smart and safe to use as Roundup or 2-4-D...both of which are about the worst things you could ever put on anything anywhere near where anyone lives, eats, or drinks.

Fish on...

Todd

Pull them. 15 minutes a day and you can keep up.

Reminds me I need to spray some chemicals for my weeds. 2,4 D seems to be working on the horsetail and should work on most broadleaf weeds like dandelions. Roundup should get the grass, then need to deal with the blackberries, and buttercup. Only a few ferns. Best to spray before the wind kicks up. Really wish I didn't need to use chemicals but I have alot that needs to be used. My hands get sore from pulling. Need to get this done this morning and pack for camping/fishing as I have the next 17 days off.

Are you joking? Glyphosate seems pretty harmless from my rather exhaustive research.





Salmo, go glyphosate, use a surfactant to thicken it up and make it penetrate, add some hi liter so you know which furns got the spray and they will be dead really quick and won't reseed the next generation. A couple of application and that firm colony should be in check.

We have some Bracken and pull the ones that grow in the "wrong" places. I guess if there aren't a lot it is more like weeding; regular but not overwhelming. Our big issue is horsetail. One part of the yard is just infested and we have been pulling it for 20 years. Not at bad as it was, but won't it ever go away?

Thanks for all the suggestions, useful and otherwise.

Sounds like pulling them ends up spreading more spores from the roots, and that's consistent with the location of all the regrowth. Chemical warfare it is, then.

If you read somewhere that Glyophosphate is safe then you were either reading Montsanto's sales pamphlets, or some FDA paperwork written by the Monsanto execs who now work there.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/30/glyphosate-toxicity.aspx

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weed-whacking-herbicide-p/

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/toxic-ingredient/glyphosate

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/gateway/?pesticideid=37

No one should ever...ever...put this crap anywhere near where they live, eat, or breathe.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd, nobody ever said that the stuff wasn't toxic. When I apply it I wear gloves, mask, eye protection. I wash hands thoroughly afterwards and take a shower.

In the end I think it is just like anything toxic, don't gets exposed to too much of it chronically.

We are surrounded by toxins just as bad as glyphosate, but since this one does such a good job at destroying plants it gets the "I'm scared" treatment from people who are wanting to be afraid of chemical and technology related to them. There is a growing group of folks who get hysterical about all this stuff which I can relate to but like anything else it is about ranking the weight of presence of these dangers in our lives.

So, In the end, I'm still a lot more afraid of Canadian truckers on I5 than I am glyphosate.

Knock yourself out. If calling someone "scared" or "hysterical" because they don't want to have that poison around their home, food, or lungs makes you feel better about...go.

Fish on...

Todd

Also, I am talking glyphosate, not Roundup. I don't know anyone that thinks Roundup is safe. It is a complex mix of tons of other crap so it can pretty much kill anything.

At work we use glyphosate mixed with a surfactant that is essentially like vegetable oil. It doesn't kill everything but it does a good job on the stuff we want to hit.

Again, just pull them.

+1

Fish on...

Todd

[Bleeeeep!] pulling. Weed whack, rake, burn if you want to avoid chemical warfare. Plus, than you get a nice exposure to the combustion exhaust of gasoline which is far more toxic than glyphosate, but is something we swim in every day nearly everywhere.

I did the reading of your links Todd. Apparently every human disease is linked to glyphosate. Strange though because I think people have been getting sick and dying since way before the chemical was invented.

I for one am not a proponent of glyphosate for many purposes in which it is used. However, I am just as skeptical of Monsanto as I am of people who think they can blame their health problems on external sources. They tend to choose external sources they cannot possibly understand, such as chemicals and how they effect the human body, because they are laymen.

Most doctors I have met, if you ask them what causes disease, will say "bad luck".

Also, if you want to know what will likely kill you, don't look to Monsanto, look to you family and their health history. Genes and health history tell you what to fear, not the internet and associated information overload.

I wonder if Sg imagined his question about controlling ferns would open such a can of worms.... Ah, the Dark Side.

My inexhaustive research (limited to the articles Todd referenced and the comments that follow) suggests that the delivery method Beezy described should be considerably safer (if somewhat less effective) than Roundup. Apparently, what makes Roundup more effective than other glyphosate treatments (and also more dangerous) is the surfactant they use to achieve deep penetration of the toxins into the plant's cells.

Apparently, most surfactants are detergents. We all know that detergents are very useful for controlling contaminants. What I had never learned before, but made a lot of sense to me, was that what makes detergents so effective at controlling germs is their ability to break down cell membranes and more directly deliver the substance that kills (often suffocates) the organism. By using a vegetable oil instead of a detergent, Beezy's crew should be getting the viscosity needed to keep the poison where it needs to be for an extended period, while avoiding a lot of the risk associated with using glyphosate. It seems likely, assuming their surfactant might not be as effective at penetrating the plant cells, that such a treatment might be somewhat less effective, but it should be a lot safer, which would be a good thing.

I personally avoid using herbicides/pesticides as much as possible. My lawn's probably 50% weeds, but if we mow once a week, it looks pretty good. When I have unwanted plants, I use elbow grease and time to control them. In some cases, I give up and use the excuse that I'm maintaining a "green" yard, which ironically ends up needing less maintenance....

Good luck with the fornicatin' ferns, Sg.

DDT, PCBs, and Agent Orange were all find and dandy, too...until they weren't.

It doesn't take much of an understanding of the chemical industry or the FDA to know that taking their word for it that the chemicals they make zillions off of or their handpicked rubber stampers in the Gubmint (who likely worked at Montsanto a few weeks earlier) approve as "healthy" is a bad gamble, at best.

Pull your damn weeds...it's not like the Bataan Death March or anything.

Fish on...

Todd

Rarely use split shots...but I put them on with pliers when I do

FF, my lawn is like yours...about half weeds, but it looks pretty good when I cut it

My lawn loses about 10 or 20 square feet every time I work in the yard...by this time next summer it will be down to one small 6x10 patch in the front, and the rest will be fully converted into garden boxes.

If I am going to waste time ( ) working in my yard I will waste it growing organic food, not wasting water or putting herbicides and pesticides on a patch of useless grass...lawn is a waste of time, space, and resources

Fish on...

Todd

apply it correctly and there is no problem, sometimes on hot days its dry within a half hour... drench the sh!t out of everything, yeah, you can create a problem, but mainly for pets or rats that run through it, and if you live next to a creek or whatnot...

if there is 5 sets, pull them...

if there is 500 sets, have fun, you wont win...


im goin fishin boys, c ya

I recently cleared a patch of blackberries that was about 2,000 SF, maybe a bit more. First step was to weed whack it (solid metal 3 blade tool, not trimmer line), then I hit it with our field mower, effectively a mini brush hog. Left it alone for two weeks.

Two weeks later, any green growth got the scorched earth treatment, glocophosphate and mec-amine (a generic version of crossbow). Went back last week and what was growing? Bracken ferns. I hit those with GP, and they look like they are on their way out.


The area will be cleaned up a bit at the end of the year, and then probably replanted with our usual field grass after removing that one stump. Used about 3 oz of concentrate of each herbicide.

It's amazing how many ferns can be pulled at 15 minutes a day.

On the topic of carrier fluids, the primary way foresters deliver herbicides to plants they want to kill is through the use of what is called basal oil. Essentially a mineral oil that penetrates the cells of the plants delivering the herbicide. Holds a stable mix over a period of time.

You'd this some pro landscaper type would step up and offer some constructive advice...



We must not have one. Hmmm.

You forgot the constructive part.

I find it easier to lanscape with problem weeds vs eradicating them.... Besides by late summer the dandelion blooms blend so niceley with the green ferns

I think I am actually becoming accustomed to your creative and colorful use of monikers


I stand corrected. Maybe we do have a professional landscaper here.



Huh.




Salmo was the one asking for the advice anyways... Whaddaya do for ferns lawn boy?

Then you should consider using the "preview post" button more often.

And then there's the Hydro-Axe
The one I used was built onto a loader and swung chains instead of the blade.
A wicked machine.....brush and sapling death.
Schitt flew for almost 300 feet.

The best weed removal device I have ever found was pigs. They will root up and kill just about everything, all the while making pork chops.

This here is the best plan yet.
Weed removal combined with good BBQ !

Sip lemonade while the pigs are workin'....can't beat that !

More:

Food for thought

Just spray some Roundup on 'em...add a little of KK's Shallot Vinegarette and you're good to go

Fish on...

Todd

I've always known that you are not quite right, and now I know why.

KK's weed removal program involves goats not pigs.

That strategy affords him a little wood while the yard is weeded "organically" by his "lady friends".

"Little wood" being the operative words...

Crikey! So bracken ferns are carcinogenic too!

If the spores are on the underside of the fronds and release in the fall as I suspected (and KK said), then pulling them (as advised twice by JG) in the spring and early summer should not increase their number. Just what I need, another thing to do in the yard and back forty. If I had as much time as I did when I was a kid, I'd invite Stam over to help pull 'em and we could have a fern fight. But those days are long gone. I will wear gloves while pulling the damn things.

BTW, finally got my raised beds set up and filled with garden mix soil from Great Western - many wheel barrows full, whew! So tomorrow I plant my mini garden and work on finishing the deer fence. Got a couple new cute little fawns ramblin' around the place, adding to the deer population.

I'm really surprised goats weren't mentioned sooner...

They like acidic soil so use lime to sweeten the soil and make it hard for them to thrive. Repeated mowing or weed whacking in combo with lime is a safe bet if you want to avoid chems. Someone mentioned pulling horse tail. Never pull it , when you do you create two or more heads and make the problem worse. Cut them.

Google Keystone pest solutions in Idaho they have all the best ag chems in genetic form and you can read how to best apply them and in what combos .

I think consulting a pro is more fun.

Pro at what?

Apparently, you don't realize that "Roundup" is the trade name for Glyphosate.

Book 'im Danno

Glyphosate is a translocated herbicide which is absorbed through the leaves and transmitted to the roots to give the plant a salty heartattack. It basically disrupts the photosynthesis process.


Don't listen to the hippies here and "spray the chit out of it!" lol

KK you are a damn idiot... you call me names and cant even read.. this is what i said EXACTLY

drench the sh!t out of everything, yeah, you can create a problem,

that means if you DO drench the sh!t out of everything, you will create a PROBLEM, even my initial post said to spray them "not dripping wet" but cover them...

i also had a commercial applicators license many moons ago, but im not really a yard ape anymore, just for the measly 40 an hour i charge if i want to even take it, and get... all you gotta do is ask someone, you know?... sh!t i was chargin my uncle 20 to prune his raggedy ass trees 15 years ago, so go ask him, im sure hes waiting for you in the bedroom...

you should go fishing more you know?

Who's this EVO Sock puppet?

no skillz?

test me John...

and i get banned because of people like you, that intentionally upset or try to hurt me, using my shady ass family members as weapons, congrats dude, you hang out with quality people... people that would screw their own nephew and their brother because they are greedy lifeless NO SKILL having coat riding off my father pieces of sh!t...

ask any company ive worked for or with if i have any skillz... ask Charter, ask Ohashi, ask Kemper, ask ANY OF EM... Kemper/Ive is still pissed off at the reason my dad fired them tho, so LOL on them...

or just ask my buddy Mike that owns Mountscapes, speaking of that, Salmo, you want your yard done, hes the guy... known him since i was a kid, and he does great work, you wont be dissapointed...

as for you John, like i said, test me ya mutt, ill run circles around you all day and kick you in the asshole on each pass behind your back...

go fishing dipsh!t...

This is about to go five stars, and hit 4+ pages by morning.....




#shitzgettinrealz #frondfight #toddsahippie #agentorange #redhookseatbelt #hashtag

Fraken ferns......

just pull em up

dont does not mean i didnt dipsh!t...

fvck you are annoying...

you know what, im not posting on this anymore...

have fun with the ferns Salmo, they suck...

Evo keeps biting the same piece of skillfully presented rhetoric BU throws out. He starts out subtle and is mostly ignored, then ramps up his presentation with a little more flash and degradation with a hint of joblessness and wham! Evo On!!

What started out as a bracken fern question has turned out to be one of the greatest trolling demonstrations ever! so far 4.5

#redhookontheragagain

lol

I can't fuckin' believe it took so long for the first KK/goat post to go up in this thread. We're getting to be a bunch of pussies around here.

That f'er GROWS weeds and bushes and brambles to keep his ladies happy. He wouldn't let Round-Up or Crossbow or any of that sh!t within 20 miles of his place.

Oh yeah - I've found that 43-8 knows what he's talking about when it comes to plants/trees/gardening.

Everything else, he's full of sh!t.

I am oh so glad I posted here to get lern't 'bout how to deal wit' dem damn braken ferns. So much good advice from actual experts, and of course, Redhook too. I'm so inspired I might just begin another thread to get lern't what #hashtag means. Suppose it might go a few pages as well, with dueling experts and all . . .

And to think I began posting on PP because it was about fishing.

Sg

I might just go find a patch of these Brackens and get pugilistic with the sorry bassturds.
First I need to go on Amazon and pick up Redhook's book on how to properly wage war against this boorish horde.

.

That is classic fortune cookie wisdom right there!



That could also be a Haiku if you separated it into three lines.

Got to love the internet

What's a braken fern?

5 Stars!

Fish on...

Todd

Without checking my dictionary, I'm guess it's the same as a bracken fern.

Yep, samo-samo...
Used for sword-fighting/fencing.

The possum ate my SHO...

Them Chevy rat motors ain't nuthin'...this here's a possum motor.

An old timer told me once about what seems to work.

Pull all the mature fronds before they produce mature spores. The sori containing immature spores will be greenish. Mature ones will be a brownish color.

When the rhizomes send up new shoots, break them off but leave a little of the epidermis attached. Do not break them completely off. The rhizomes will continue to send nutrients up but the fern will not grow. It will cause the rhizomes to "bleed" to death.

Possum thread? Ok....one of my ex-wives chased a possum out of the yard into the street and killed it with a broom. True story. After that, whenever we argued, I made sure there wasn't a broom in sight.
Snake

The broom is a gateway weapon.
The hatchet is next.
Good thing you got out of there.

Hmmm...

Found this in the Book of Possum (2-pack special w/Braken Wars at Costco)....

If the possum will eat braken, he should be spared the hatchet.

sirens wailing... thread turned Gay

Hank and KK are drinking buddies