I have a Winchester Model 1000 pellet rifle. Want to buy a lazer sight for it. I can find lots of lazer sights on the Interwebz , but none specifically say they will fit. I bought one that said it fit most rifles, but it dies not fit the Winchester. Any thoughts?

Any Thoughts ? Hell Yeah !

Take some of that stock market money and go buy a real Air Rifle you cheapskate. Then poney up and put a lazer sight on that....

.

Sounds like a plan. Sooo, what can you guys recommend for a good pellet gun? Something like this?

RWS .22 Pellet Model 34 Combo Rifle (Wood, Large) by RWS (May 11, 2011)

So what brand is a real air rifle?

It depends what you are looking for... Pest control? Target shooting? Distance?


The only important factor is accuracy and, for the most consistent velocities, you should look at PCP rifles.

I shoot Airforce- American made, most powerful rifles for the least amouy of money with CRAZY accuracy. Seriously crazy accuracy.

Look at the Talon SS or the Condor SS

http://www.airforceairguns.com


To purchase rifles, pellets or accessories go here

http://www.pyramydair.com


Here is a source that has used via a classifieds page

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/



Now... In m opinion... Ted here is the GO TO guy for reviews, comparisons and information. There are some FANTASTIC videos here that make it all clear.

I highly recommend "Pigeon Hunting in a 25 MPH Wind" and "Pigeon Hunting at 100 Yards"

The target videos are just as amazing. He is breaking golf tees at 35 yards in half and then breaking them in half again. There is also a video shooting empty shotgun hulls at 100 yards. Ted is unbiased, very thorough and entertaining.


http://tedsholdover.com/video/

Also...

Not to rain on your parade, in fact I made the same mistake, I have concluded that lazers and pellets rifles don't mix...

Simply put, the mounting height of the lazer, your line of sight and line of trajectory almost NEVER intersect. The fact is pellets have a rainbow trajectory and almost all of the mounts you will find will offset the height of the lazer at least 1.5" above the height of the barrel and the lazer and your line of sight, of course travels in an exact straight path. Imagine two lines intersecting like an X and then draw a rainbow through both legs. Practical shooting is as worthless as this drawing you just made. At five feet, you will be 1.5" off. And actual zero might be 12-15 yards but at 17-20 yards you will already be 1.5" off or worse. If you are trying to hit anything smaller than a tennis ball, you have to know the exact distance and hold over or under and it just isn't worth the effort unless your targets are alway at the same exact distance.

You are much better off getting a variable, high-power, illuminated mil-dot scope and practicing at various distances.

I have mine set to zero at 20 which also puts me dead on at 40. So if the target is at less than 20; I use a lower mil-dot and it is super easy similar to pins on a bow sight. If the target is between 20 to 40 I MIGHT hold just a tad low if I need to be that precise. If the target is over 40, all I have to do is hold over incrementally again. So... On a crow sized target at 15- 60 yards I simply put the crosshair on his neck and squeeze. I have three mil-dots going down the breast and basically the only way you could miss is horizontally with wind drift or pulling the shot. My gun is very forgiving though. Hold, slap and it is like the crow has been struck by lightening... But I digress.


You are welcome to shoot mine a couple times and see if it is something that interests you.

JTD Lots of great info there. Thanks. PM me and maybe we can shoot yours a bit. Sounds fun. I'm actually most interested in varmit control but do wanna do some target shooting on family vacations.

Sure.

The lazer is still mounted on it too. You'll see that for yourself

Dave and Bart tag team for the *grin*!

Dave,
I'd concur with JTD and add a few more thoughts for your consideration. I purchased a beautiful Feinwerkbau 124 spring piston rifle in the late '70's. One couldn't do much better for a sporter (hunting) pop gun. With the more modern PCP rifles, the game has changed with just one caveat. A quality springer will push a specific pellet at a pretty much constant velocity forever. The PCP's are subject to velocity/accuracy drop off as the rifle's tank pressure drops below its regulator setting. Usually means bringing a larger SCUBA tank along on extended forays to refill. Savvy?

Another factor is sport vs match rifles. A sporter will push a pellet at roughly twice the velocity of a match rifle in the same caliber. Match rifles are expensive, bulky and are unparalleled at making little bug holes at 10m. Take a look at the Feinwerkbau match PCP's and you'll see what I'm talking about. Match rifles are not for swatting starlings out of your blueberries at 50m.

Also, .177, .20, .22 and .25 pills have flatter trajectories (higher velocities) and less lateral wind drift at the smaller end of the scale and more kinetic energy (how hard they hit the intended target with resulting penetration) at the larger. So, look for a quality sporter in a caliber that fits the bill and it will give you and your grandson a lifetime of memories. Here's some more links for your R&D--

Linky 1

Linky 2

We'll talk pellets/optics/mounts another day. In the mean time, take JTD's hint and forget about the laser on a pop gun.

Have fun my friend!

In a lengthy PM to Dave, I told him basically the same thing. My gun will deliver 40 pellets on a single charge at hunting velocities but the first 15 or so are at the ideal pressures ( MORE consistent than a springer) it just takes a second to top off the tank and I get 40 fill from a scuba tank, you can get MUCH more from a higher pressure carbon fiber tank but that is more than he needs to know.

Eventhough, only the first fifteen shots at ideal pressures, it is just a slight adjustment of holdover to account for the change. No big deal. That is 1600 shots at hunting velocities. Also you have the benefit of ZERO cocking effort, the exerted pressure on the barrel - I was lucky enough to have a buddy bear trap my Beeman Crow Magnum. Nothing like ruining a $1200 gas piston gun in the blink of an eye!

Many of the PCP guns now are available with magazines for faster follow up shots and I know of one that is a semi shot. See Teds video "shooting pigeons in flight"
Pretty amazing how things have changed.

http://tedsholdover.com/video/hunting-and-pest-control/shooting-pigeons-in-flight/


There is even an FX that shoots arrows!

Sorry... I just dig this stuff.

No need to apologize. You're preaching to the choir, as I share your interest in them too and agree with the thoughts shared. Have even enjoyed Ted's site for a couple years. There's a good number of 'Tube NV rat shooting vids by a woman under the handle of snypercat. Read somewhere that she's a former (Slavic?) military sniper. Her trigger control is exceptional.

When I looked at the PCP's in some detail a few years back, I really like the Daystate offerings but couldn't really justify the cost compared to the nostalgia/performance of a pristine FWB 124 that has had a very good return on investment....

Be interesting to see if Dave can connect all the dots proffered or if BB will have to set him straight, again.

One more thing....

As a tender youth, I was hell on my mom's raspberries. It was the red mist. She figured it out real quick. Plump slugs scavenged from the same garden were placed atop a fence post and given a 20 second head start. Match pellets at nearly 900 fps are impressive. Unless you're a slug. If starlings are at the lectern of the Pearly Gates, I'm on the down elevator. Finally, don't ever shoot a golf ball with an air rifle. Especially if you are a good shot. They shoot back....

The Daystate Airwolf MCT is the real deal but in the price range there are so many choices it would be hard to choose. At least,with Airforce, you the benefits of the platform, with just as amazing performance but with half the cost because it is American made. Opinions vary of course.

That is funny- I had that same conversation with Bigstick several years back except we were discussing crows.

I remember him declaring PCP guns as a "nurse bottle with training wheels."

He had a way with words.

I bought my air rifles before there were a lot of PCP guns out there, about 25 years ago. I have a Webley Vulcan .177 and a Webley Patriot in .22. I also have a .20 Sheridan Blue streak that is about as old as me.

Only the Patriot has a scope, and it has taken hundreds of barn pigeons. Accurate out to 50 yards for head shots off hand. The Webleys are break action spring guns, and because of the recoil impulse, they require shock proof scopes.

The only accessory attached to the Patriot rifle other than a scope is a pressure switch activated high intensity light, which is used for barn pigeons, and late night coons and possums. A .22 caliber gun will kill easily at 900fps for body shots on coons. I choose head shots except when none is presented.

Hold the door for me.

Will do.

Dear Lord, please forgive me....

Before there were German Precision Air Rifles, there were the Sheridan 'Streaks. Still have mine too. Scores of starlings met their end with a well-placed .20 SilverJet and even those crappy Sheridan pellets that came in a bright yellow plastic box before then. Popped a truck load of starlings eating the eggs and stealing the nesting materials from other birds.

Folks had a couple of bird boxes for the returning swallows. The swallows were nice to have around in the summer as they would constantly eat mass quantities of mosquitoes in our back yard. The starlings were too big to make it through the box's front door, so they'd sit on the peg and do their dirty work. The wily bastids couldn't see me off to the side with their heads in a hole. Once, the neighbor lady saw me pop one and gave me a good tongue lashing as to the shortcomings of my moral character. I tried to inform her as to the reasoning behind my apparent sins, and her own nest boxes being raided, but she was hard to sway with the known facts coming from a mere gangly kid. A few weeks later, she apologized after witnessing for herself what I had proffered to her earlier. She invited me to wait for guilty parties in her backyard whenever I wanted to. Rats with wings....

Prior to going "high power," use to hide under an old fruit tree with a pitifully powerless Daisy lever gun. Had to guess where the starlings would settle for the fallen fruit, and hold in ready position in accord because if the BB's rolled in the tube, so would they. Patience is a virtue for head shots at close quarters. Even use to pass shoot at 'em with a Wrist Rocket sling shot and a dozen BB's full-choked in a Saran Wrap sabot twisted just right so as to open up about half way up for a good pattern. Ah, youth!

I still clearly recall receiving my first mail order Beeman catalog. Just like some reading this thread, I was hooked for life. I'd be willing to bet that Dave will too....

Still have my Sheridan.
Looks like things have changed in the airgun world.
Hell, there's a guy on the other board that whacks 'yotes and bobcats with big bore air.

Dogfish- the Webley Patriot is a great rifle.


PCP big bore rifles aren't really new technology- Lewis and Clark depended on one not just for gathering large and small game but they used it to impress the Indian tribes they encountered.



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle