My fear is that the Quinault have blown by their numbers and that is why the state is pulling back so quick. Allowing the recs to continue in the river would put the run at risk of falling way blow the allowable escape. If the fish are staging in a place where they are more vulnerable than usual, this would likely be more likely than not, unless the nets pulled back. My experience has been that when something is missing, the state usually does not want us to know the truth. We will see, but it just seems to always be the case.

10/9/2022




Come on Flea, the slow reporting by the QIN has been going on for many years. Fish are caught, set nets or Gillnets, fish go to "fish house", either Wishkah or Taholah. Fish tickets should be available within a 24 hours time period. Technology being as fast as it, there is no reason that WDFW shouldn't be sent a daily copy or at least a weekly copy.

Personally I'd like to see report Hatchery/Wild numbers reported on WDFW web site.....sports have to record, should be on commercial side also. Maybe WDFW gets numbers and choose not to post???? Can't be much effort to include in the web posting.......

I agree....

So, what's the verdict? Are the nets back in?

It's odd. Way back when WDF had commercial samplers who hit all the fish houses essentially daily. Most fisheries the numbers were available fast; 99% of the catch (I and NI) in 3 days or less. The data was on computer and available for looking at. This was 40 years ago. Technology has advanced a lot and the data is less available??

10/09/2022

The nets are in.....went in at 12:00.......QIN schedule October 9 - Oct 12

We just need the numbers posted.....

Thanks, Drifter. That tells me all I needed to know. No fishing (at least in Grays Harbor) tomorrow.

The resource became scarce. Then, the politics got more secretive and dirtier. Now, we citizens get only what the co-manglers choose to let us see, and only when they choose to let us see it.

Of course, you understand this, and I'm only following your lead....

The thing about QIN numbers is they always showed a week or so after the fishing week. It is unusual for the QIN to be in their 3rd set and numbers not available for the first week. The QIN manage their fisheries for their people and no where do I remember seeing the word co managers utilized for the Chehalis Basin closures. It appears this was a WDFW thing and I imagine the NT commercials will also fish. TeamMontesano@dfw.wa.gov or James.Losee@dfw.WA.gov is how to reach James Losee or Kelly Cunningham in the concrete palace in Olympia as he is the harvest top dog.

Until we get the QIN numbers it difficult to bring reason into the discussion. The press release mentions harvest and concerns but remember this is WDFW and numbers do not appear to be of concern to the QIN in the Chehalis. Lacking the necessary information my gut says this is about a huge fish movement that stopped short. A rather substantial number of fishers descended on them with the usual bandits mixed in. The optics are bad to be sure but that is people and frankly with the preseason forecast recreational exceeding their catch enough to harm escapement in the Chehalis is pure BS.

After all that minus the QIN numbers we truly do not know what the run looks like and why WDFW and the QIN are setting on the tribal harvest numbers. One thing I do know local staff we interact with does not take actions like this but rather Region 6 Fish Program top gun Mr. Losee James.Losee@dfw.WA.gov and the infamous concrete palace in Olympia where Mr. Cunningham hangs out. Keep in mind these guys are not prone to coming forth and explaining their actions in a forthright manner as it usually involves smoke and mirrors.


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From day 1 of Boldt QIN was recognized as "self-regulating" as they already had a professional staff "capable" of managing by themselves. I think they are the only Tribe that has that designation assigned by the Courts. I do recall, when I was working, that there was tribe in PS with a Chinook fishery that was still unreported in December.

You simply can't manage for escapement without up to date numbers.

About optics of in river fishers then and now. In the early 80s the Coho came in and stopped right at the Satsop twin bridges. As luck would have my wife and I were off a week to fish so when I seen this was happening we fished it with 4 guys from Monte. Then the Chum came up and I mean the old bridge flats it was a river full of fish. My wife did a C&R on the biggest damn bowser I have ever seen and that fish had her ass deep in the river more than once, up and down the bar on runs that was something to see.

Then a Seattle TV station ( KOMO I think ) did video for the nightly news and the next day that gravel bar was ass deep in people. The reaction from WDF was it was a great year for fishing! I abandoned that zoo but if you have lots of fish that are accessible your going to draw lots of people. The press release quotes James Losee with "Historic low flows this summer are creating conditions that limit fish movements and result in higher-than-expected harvest rates," said James Losee, WDFW Region 6 fish program manager. "These areas are closing to fishing until river conditions improve and salmon are able to reach the spawning grounds in adequate numbers." Right here I call BS LOUDLY because commercial harvest and Rec harvest continues in the tidewater and bay. This is about a substantial number of harvestable fish stopping where folks can access them. As in all things that draws folks it can look and is unruly but that is combat fishing. Optics suck but the average person who does not have a boat can get a fish!

For Janes Losee and Kelly Cunningham and the minions in the concrete palace to put this is about conservation is simply as I said a load of BS. Now I cannot back this up with numbers because the QIN and WDFW will not release the QIN harvest numbers. That said the QIN and NT commercials are still fishing so the closure is clearly not about conservation. It is about the optics of large numbers of fish and large numbers of river fishers coming together for "combat fishing"

Again the optics are bad but for average citizen who cannot afford a boat and fishes a few times a year to finally get to catch a salmon after several lean years is a dream come true. For Fish Programs harvest managers James Losee and Kelly Cunningham to put forth that for the Chehalis this is about conservation is just plain a falsehood. It is about the optics of the average citizen and large numbers of fish coming together. It ain't pretty but neither is a gillnet ripping fish out of the water but terminal commercial fisheries and charter boat mayhem are acceptable.

This is the discrimination that inriver Rec fishers have struggled with for years. I do not use the word discrimination lightly but it is true. Many things have changed over the years but the bias within WDFW toward inriver recreational fishers has not.

One thing I noticed about WDF/WDFW was a fascination with boat based fisheries. For a variety of reasons, including sea-sickness, I really don't go for boat fishing but that is what they emphasize.

Back in the 80s fisheries were more reality-based. You had updates, you had daily catches, and management was expected to be nimble. Now, the preference is for auto-pilot. I can understand the Tribe's desire for that as they were the ones being cut off due to declining run or increased catch.

So, they all agreed to scheduled fisheries with no updates. Auto-pilot management. The NI take a number (set) outside. The I -side then fishes a fixed schedule inside (guaranteed). If any adjustments needs to be made after the horse is out of the barn they head upstream to close.

NT nets will be in Willapa Bay Monday and Tuesday as scheduled.

As others have said here, just dont buy a license. Were just funding somebody else's crack habit. If getting fish to the spawning grounds is the problem, there is no logical reason to leave the lower river and bay open. Dont help fund somebody who is not going to work for you.

A logical explanation and the state of Washington do not go hand in hand. Here's a logical start to fix our problem's. Quit destroying habitat, and handing out building permits like there candy. For as green as Washington claims to be, they sure do alot of the opposite.

And people still think that WDFW want what’s best for the fish. If the tribe is netting, commercials are netting and the tidewater is still open for fishing, then I agree….”letting fish get to spawning grounds” is not the goal.

Then the state wonders why we don’t trust them during the steelhead management on these rivers.

I’m beyond done with WDFW. From the top to the bottom…they are useless. I didn’t see a single fish checker, bio or game warden each day I fished the tributaries when they were open. How the hell do they make these decisions if they can’t or won’t put boots on the ground?

I was catching fish in the mornings. Did fishing decline considerably when the 80 degree sun hit the water? Yeah…but fish were in the tribs and it was some great morning fishing.

We need a change. We will lose all “opportunity” with the current regime at WDFW. They are lazy and live in fear of frivolous lawsuits from the wild fish only groups. It’s all about “optics” like riverguy said. “Crap, sportsman are catching fish, Wild fish bug throwers are going to be upset and sue us”.

These steelhead meetings this year should be everyone calling in questioning their decision making ability after this BS. They can’t manage sports salmon fishing…how do we except you to manage steelhead.

Back when sturgeon fishing seasons were a bit more liberal, a few guys discovered that the pool at the dead line was holding fish. I was there one day and a boat had gone across and was catching fish. Two guys, that was it, but they caught their fish real quick. The game warden was standing next to me and observed this. I said something like, man, they look to be in there thick. His response was classic. "I know, we might need to close it.".

I have only seen one other boat do this. But hey, if they are catching, we need to close it.

Everything Rivrguy said. Only thing I would add is that there weren't many people fishing the parts of the tribs I had been fishing (which are spots I know hold fish and are not secrets-most right at public access points). I suppose it makes a difference that I go out of my way to avoid combat situations (in life and on the river!), but I hadn't observed anything I would consider a real crowd anywhere before it was closed, probably because everyone knew the fishing was so tough. I know I had put in less effort than usual, because I didn't see much reason to expect the kind of fish movement we need to spread out the fish to places where I like to get em.

Another thing for me, personally: When the salmon fishing is slow in October, I like to turn my attention to cutthroat, jacks, or whatever else might be around. With this closure, that's not an option anymore. I think there are ways WDFW could have declared only a salmon closure and supplemented the rule with appropriate gear restrictions, to allow for some opportunity on game fish.

I am very familiar with the tired arguments that if they leave the rivers open for anything, the snaggers and poachers will keep doing their thing. If that's true, it's only because WDFW doesn't enforce its rules in the field. We all know they are under-staffed, but that's not our fault or our problem. Only WDFW can take action to defeat the evil spectres of snagging and poaching. And while we're on that topic, why aren't these WDFW staff doing stream observation issuing citations to the snaggers they claim to be observing all over the place? That might make a difference! Taking away fisheries from people who abide by the rules is never the appropriate way to punish those who don't.

Grrrr....

Going way back the old WDG used to have most of the field staff commissioned. That meant that, while doing a spawner survey, I could (if Commissioned) issue citations. Our boss didn't want us to be Commissioned (although he did get it) because it could take time away from work. There are some solutions available that don't require additional staff.

We were a small group of 4 at a field station. But, we walked the anadromous zones of five watersheds weekly so there was a lot we could see.

Draft email to Losse, Director, and Governor... any thoughts? I know it's too long, but that's just because I wrote it....


Mr. Losse:

I am writing to express concern with your office’s decision to close the vast majority of the coastal rivers and Chehalis tributaries to all fishing as of October 8, 2022. To be very clear, I am a conservation-minded individual, and I am supportive of in-season changes that genuinely seek to protect fish that are at risk. My issues with your decision are as follows:

· You allow fishing to continue, as planned, in the mainstem Chehalis tidewater and Grays Harbor, which flies in the face of your stated objective to (paraphrasing) “ensure enough fish are able to spawn successfully.” If there are enough fish to keep the tidewater fishing open, there are enough to keep the tributaries open.

· Your decision to close the tributaries while leaving the mainstem open allows people who can afford power boats to keep fishing, while putting most bank anglers, most of whom are only bank anglers because they cannot afford boats, on the couch. All anglers pay the same for their fishing license. Regardless of motivation, that is discriminatory policy, which means it’s also bad policy.

Anyone who has fished the Chehalis drainage for any length of time (22 years for me) understands that when the fish aren’t moving into the tributaries this time of year, they are mostly holding in the tidewater and bay, waiting for rain, cooler temperatures, or whatever it is that tells them it's time to move. While they cycle in and out of the lower river (which we’ll call the mainstem water below the mouth of the Satsop River), they are subjected to constant fishing pressure and predation, whether it’s from a large contingent of sport anglers in boats, the tribal and non-tribal gillnets fishing the river 4 days (or sometimes more) each week, or predatory pinnipeds. Without question, this is the most perilous 10 or so miles of water Grays Harbor salmon encounter along their journey to the spawning gravel or hatcheries.

In a typical year, fish start moving into the tributaries by the end of September, so the “waiting” period is limited to a period of 2-3 weeks, effectively limiting the impact of the fisheries to a reasonable level. This year is clearly not typical, however, with flows well below normal and temperatures well above, and the current forecast suggests it may be November before we see changes sufficient to move fish. If that’s what plays out, it will mean the early run will have been essentially trapped in a relentless kill zone for no less than 6 weeks. That simply cannot be conducive to successful spawning, and it will almost certainly eat up the entire recreational harvest quota before the majority of stakeholders in the fishery (the average Joes and Joans who don’t own power boats) ever get a chance to wet a line. If that sounds like discriminatory policy, well, it probably is. That is why I have CCed the Governor’s office and the WDFW Director on this communication; I feel they should be aware that this sort of policy, while it’s been the most used tool in the WDFW in-season adjustment toolbox, disproportionately affects people of lesser economic means. I may be a privileged white, but many of my bank fishing cohorts are people of color, and one thing we all have in common is that we can’t afford boats.

That all explains why anglers displaced by this decision are not satisfied with your explanation that our water is closed to “protect spawning fish,” which brings me to another reason I saw fit to share this with your superiors. This is but the latest on an ever-growing list of half-truths and even outright lies your sport angler contingent has been fed by the Department in recent years, often in attempts to justify the unjustifiable. Based on what I hear from other anglers (even some among those who can still fish now), what we want most from our representation at WDFW (and particularly the Region 6 office) is honesty and forthright communication. It’s clear to anyone familiar with Grays Harbor fisheries this closure was not implemented to protect spawning fish. As citizens and paying stakeholders, we deserve (indeed, we are entitled!) to know the truth, even if it is as simple as the fact that your staff classifies bank anglers as a bunch of lowlife snaggers, unworthy of equal opportunity and government representation, so you decided to allocate our quota to the big boat crowd and gillnets. With that, Sir, on behalf of a shrinking but critical mass of your license-buying customers, I ask you for the (whole) truth about why I can’t fish right now, but my friends with boats can.

I am absolutely NOT asking that you close the tidewater fishery, unless, of course, that becomes legitimately necessary to protect fish. That is, after all, the only thing left, for anyone. I AM suggesting that, if it’s still safe to be fishing the lower river and bay, it’s still safe to be fishing the tributaries, even if it’s not likely to be very productive. Opening the tributaries would spread out pressure, and any day now, the switch will flip, and the fish will start moving. They always do. In the meantime, please carefully consider whom these decisions impact the most when you propose in-season rule changes. Those lowest on the totem pole are getting extremely tired of having our opportunity be first on the chopping block every time your staff decides any action is necessary.

One final point: When field observations lead to closures, which is what I understand happened here, WDFW staff frequently make mention of people “snagging” fish in places where they are holding up. Snagging is despicable, unethical, potentially harmful, and just plain bad in general. Any angler who tries to catch fish legitimately hates fishing around people who are snagging. That said, it is not our place to correct their behavior, and if it is such a pervasive issue and is leading your staff to think we should close fisheries, why aren’t you citing people when you observe them snagging? That might actually make a difference! Instead, you always seem more inclined to generalize us all as snaggers and close our entire fishery. That may be convenient in helping you achieve objectives, but it’s lazy, disingenuous, does nothing to discourage the bad behavior, and quite frankly, it wrongfully punishes law-abiding citizens. If snagging is the problem your staff say it is, do your job and enforce your regulations. If you don’t have enough enforcement staff to do that effectively (and I suspect you don’t; the hard-working wardens I know are stretched far too thin to effectively enforce anything), perhaps the people CCed on this message can help with that….

Thanks for your service and consideration. Here’s hoping we get to a better place, where all these constant twists and gyrations aren’t necessary to decide who can fish when. Until then, delivering the straight truth when you make a decision to close a popular fishery many of us look forward to all year would be a huge step forward that would be much appreciated.

Respectfully,

(name)

Disenfranchised Angler

Question: If a WDFW enforcement officer issues a citation, does the revenue go to WDFW, or somewhere else? Probably the local county, right?

Just thinking of suggestions for ways to enhance enforcement. Seems they never have money to get more staff. Might a crackdown campaign on snagging generate enough revenue for WDFW to fund another officer or three (if the revenue goes to WDFW, of course)?