Oh Oh this could get tricky. Try this as a starting point. Both the REC and QIN Steelhead fisheries prior to week 52 which ends around the 20th of December are in reality directed Coho harvest targeting Late Native Coho with some hatchery mixed in. It is the last remaining true native component of the Coho run and weakest. Also the Steelhead in this period is also the weakest part of the run be it the front not the back side of the run.

Using the QIN 2014 harvest to get the mix of fish gives you 1822 for Late Coho and 71 Steelhead. It puts the mix at 25.67 Late Coho to 1 Steelhead. Neither the QIN or Rec fisheries in the last week of November through the 3rd week of December are Steelhead fisheries. We just call them that for convenience.

Heads up time. This is a link to the next Commission meeting. http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2015/11/agenda_nov1315.html On Friday the 13th at 3:00 PM Grays Harbor is on the agenda.

AND THEN THIS!

GILLNETTERS FILE YET ANOTHER SUIT, THIS TIME IN THURSTON COUNTY


On September 25th, Pacific County Judge Michael J. Sullivan granted the state's motion to dismiss the first legal challenge to the new Willapa management policy filed by the Willapa Bay Gillnetters Association. In response, the WBGA moved to Thurston County and filed another petition yesterday challenging the 2015 commercial season rule or "WAC" that was adopted by the Department with the policy guidenance provided by the Commission. The latest petition filed reads closely to the one filed earlier in Pacific County. Bottom line is the WBGA is arguing the Department is required to provide a commercial gillnet season that provides a profit level its members find acceptable. The Advocacy is preparing to once again file a motion to intervene to represent the interests of its members and others that have supported the Commission's efforts to manage fishing harvest in Willapa Bay in a responsible fashion. The petition filed by the WBGA is available for viewing or downloading https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2tWjgmgVy3yblAwRnNqeWFUWUk/view.

Rather than flaming the Gillnetters perhaps the sporties should take a similar tack. Sue to get the fisheries, and catch, that we want.

I think Carcassman's on to something. My family hasn't eaten salmon in three weeks, and we're all malnourished and sick because of it. Gimme, gimme, gimme!!!

Instead of attorneys, methinks the WBGA members had better start spending money on career counseling. (I realize they aren't the ones backing these lawsuits, but still....)

I have to work. I hope TVW covers it.

We have a change in the Commissions Agenda on Coho Friday in RED

FISH AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION MEETING
November 13-14, 2015
Natural Resources Building
1111 Washington St SE
Olympia WA 98501
First Floor, Room 172
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 2015
8:00 AM 1. Call to Order
1. Commissioners’ Discussion
2. Meeting Minute Approval
8:15 AM 2. Open Public Input
The Commission is a direct link between the citizens of Washington and the Department of Fish and Wildlife. Comments on Department programs and topics of concern are welcome during this portion of the meeting.
NOTE: During this portion of the meeting, the public is encouraged to comment on issues that do not already have public input time on the agenda.
8:45 AM 3. Director’s Report
The Director will brief the Commission on various items.
9:05 AM 4. Combined Fish Guide License - Briefing, Public Hearing and Decision
The Department will brief the Commission and hold a public hearing on a proposed rule to allow for a combined food fish guide and game fish guide license at a reduced rate as required by the passage of Senate Bill 5824.
- Summary - PDF Format (252 Kb)
Staff Report: Frank Hawley, Budget and Policy Manager, Licensing Division
PUBLIC INPUT (This item only)

9:25 AM 5. Land Transactions – Briefing, Public Hearing and Decision
The Commission will consider approval of various land transactions recommended by the Department for the protection of critical fish and wildlife habitat, enhancement of public recreation opportunities.
Staff Report: Julie Sandberg, Real Estate Section Manager
PUBLIC INPUT (This item only)

9:55 AM 6. Forest Restoration Projects – Decision
Department staff will brief the commission on two forest restoration projects.
- Summary - PDF Format (93 Kb)
- Presentation - PDF Format (5 Mb)
Staff Report: Richard Tveten, Forest Management Team Lead
10:15 AM Break
10:30 AM 7. Wildlife Interactions – Decision
Department staff will request approval of the proposed changes to the wildlife interaction rules.
- Summary - PDF Format (2 Mb)
Staff Report: Stephanie Simek, Wildlife Conflicts Section Manager
11:30 AM 8. Citizen Science – Briefing
Department staff will brief the commission on Wildlife Program's FY16-17 Citizen Science Conservation Initiative.
- Summary - PDF Format (78 Kb)
- Presentation - PDF Format (3 Mb)
Staff Report: Bill Tweit, Special Assistant to the Director and Wendy Connally, Citizen Science Coordinator, Wildlife Program
12:00 PM Lunch
1:00 PM 9. Commercial Smelt Fishery Update – Briefing
Department staff will brief the Commission on the commercial smelt fisheries status since regulation changes were implemented in June of 2014.
- Summary - PDF Format (25 Kb)
Staff Report: Dayv Lowry, Ph.D., Research Scientist
1:30 PM 10. Aquatic Invasive Species – Briefing
Department staff will brief the Commission on the response to the legislative directive to WDFW and the Washington Invasive Species Council to form a stakeholder consultation process to develop recommendations for future funding for the State aquatic invasive species program. Recommendations must be provided to the Governor and Legislature by June 1, 2016.
- Summary - PDF Format (17 Kb)
- Report to Legislature
Staff Report: Bill Tweit, Special Assistant to the Director and Allen Pleus, Aquatic Invasive Species Coordinator, Fish Program
2:00 PM Break
2:15 PM 11. In Season Management – Briefing and Public Input
Staff will report on the current status of Coho run sizes and actions taken to ensure conservation objectives and broodstock goals are achieved. Staff will also review and discuss possibilities to re-open fisheries.
Staff Report: John Long, Intergovernmental Salmon Management and Steve Thiesfeld, Region 6 Fish Program Manager
PUBLIC INPUT (This item only)

3:15 PM 12. Executive Session
Pursuant to RCW 42.30.110(1)(i) To discuss with legal counsel representing the agency matters relating to agency enforcement actions, or to discuss with legal counsel representing the agency litigation or potential litigation to which the agency, the governing body, or a member acting in an official capacity is, or is likely to become, a party, when public knowledge regarding the discussion is likely to result in an adverse legal or financial consequence to the agency. No action will be taken in executive session, and the public is not permitted to listen to the executive session.
4:15 PM Recess
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2015
8:00 AM 13. Open Public Input
The Commission is a direct link between the citizens of Washington and the Department of Fish and Wildlife. Comments on Department programs and topics of concern are welcome during this portion of the meeting.
NOTE: During this portion of the meeting, the public is encouraged to comment on issues that do not already have public input time on the agenda.
8:30 AM 14. 2016-17 Sportfishing Regulation Proposals – Briefing and Public Hearing
Department staff will brief the Commission on proposals and summarize public comments received for the upcoming Sportfishing rules and regulations for the 2016-17 season.
- Summary - PDF Format (2 Mb)
Staff Report: Craig Burley, Fish Management Division Manager, Chris Donley, Region 1 Fish Program Manager, Annette Hoffman, Region 4 Fish Program Manager and Steve Thiesfeld, Region 6 Fish Program Manager.
PUBLIC INPUT (This item only)

10:15 AM Break
10:30 AM 15. WDFW Presence and Capability in Emergency Management and Homeland Security – Briefing
Department staff will brief the Commission on the Enforcement Program's response to natural disasters and efforts in homeland and port security. The agency occupies an important Emergency Management Division role and receives funding from federal agencies in order to enhance our presence and capability. The focus will be on increasing awareness of the shared public safety mission and operational overlap.
- Summary - PDF Format (138 Kb)
- Presentation - PDF Format (3 Mb)
Staff Report: Deputy Chief Mike Cenci and Sergeant Erik Olson
11:00 AM 16. Miscellaneous and Meeting Debrief
The Commission will discuss items that arise immediately before or during the meeting and after the preliminary agenda is published.
• 2016 Commission meeting schedule discussion (if needed)
11:30 AM Adjourn

Every now and then a gem comes through my computer. Despite the claims of "how wonderful" from some many who live in this area and know it are rather appalled at the lack of honesty in the recent openings for inriver fishers after the massive commercial over harvest of the down sized Coho returns. I think this e mail about captured it. Oh not many hatchery Coho in the so called Satsop opening mostly Chinook a few wild Coho. By the way where and the hell did the retain two Chinook on the Hump come from?


Mr. Thiesfeld,

ANGER IS THE BEST WORD I CAN USE AT THIS TIME!

I have discovered where the West Wishkah bridge is located. Just below the Wishkaw school (turn left at Okie Thompson's store).

So with that research complete, what is the purpose???

Farmers fields with no public access and posted no trespassing signs everywhere.

Is this a PR move to say "look we have opened up rivers to allow fishing. There is virtually no access points for the sportsman.

The Humptulips river from Reynvaans bar upstream is Rayonier lease land or private keep out areas until a couple of access points for combat fishing below the hatchery.

And to think we pay you people to make decisions like this???????????? If I get this correct a person with private land or a lease will be able to fish.

You folks are entrusted by the citizens of Washington to manage the resources and just because there is a piece of paper on the wall does not make any of you an expert and the is quite evident watching poor decision making taking place one after another.

So again I ask any of you what is the thinking behind opening small sections of a few GH rivers that most anglers can not access?

I look forward to you reply and not just a political correct one.

I'll close by offering something that all you should be required to print out and place on your desk to see every day:

"Good customer service is not just about the time things are going well, but when they are going bad and how fast I can get things back in the well column".

Can't wait to see the answer. Probably something wrapped in "opportunity".

And some more but some I cannot post as ah ............... a bit colorful?

Don't know what kind of crap they are pulling, but, I was at the Wishkah hatchery today and talked to the people and they said they are getting very few silvers but quite a few dogs. They are working hard to get the last few Chinook. Yet as you can see they are opening the upper Wishkah. Is this a ploy to allow the QIN in the rivers? Trust no one!!! E---
https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/erules/efishrules/erule.jsp?id=1722


Mr. Thiesfeld......looks like discrimination to the old, disabled mom and pop fisher that uses a small boat and kicker motor.

Funneling everyone in short stretches of river......who's idea was that?

On the Hump look at the access areas.......from the low end private lease land ..the only options to combat fish or buy a drift boat??????????????????



I was born here 63 years, 8 months ago...........where the hell is the West Wishkah Bridge?



Dave what on earth are those people think they are doing? [Bleeeeep!] they are going to get more Chinook than Coho in the area they opened on the Satsop than hatchery Silvers. Just who in Montesano came up with this garbage?

What Mr. Thiesfeld will say in his response is too predictable to be much fun. I'd be more interested in reading a response from Mr. Johnstone or Ms. Sharp to the same questions. Both responses would likely be heavily laden with bull$hit, but I'd rather express my frustrations to those who truly manage the fisheries in this basin. The more one looks at the facts we've been given, the less he should think WDFW is the primary force behind the screwing we're getting this year (IMO).

While we all have the benefit of hindsight in our favor, I for one cannot demonize WDFW's management of the NON-treaty fisheries for Chehalis coho with any measure of intellectual honesty.

First off, everyone should understand that the only way to make a biologically defensible run-size update in this basin is to put commercial gear in the water, tally the catches, and work backward thru the harvest rate-based model (hindcast) to arrive at an in-season run-size update. Since our Commission policy effectively took the state nets off the water (4/3 constraint) during the most critical and opportune time to test the waters for coho, that left only the QIN fishery and its catches to "hindcast" a new run-size.

Some may argue the timing of the run-size update and the urgency with which fisheries were restricted/closed.... but the fact of the matter is that once a biologically defensible run-size update was made by the state after QIN completed their week 42 tally, WDFW-managed fisheries were swiftly and decisively constrained in the name of conservation.

The only other opportunity to make a run-size update was after the QIN catches for week 41 were tallied. This too would have produced a run-size update significantly lower than the preseason forecast, but slightly bigger than the one based on the week 42 numbers. This MIGHT have compelled the state to completely cancel our commercial fishery in week 43. It might have also made the state scale back the rec fishery a week earlier.

But in the great grand scheme of things, how much conservation benefit would have occurred by doing so? QIN would have denied any conservation concern existed after week 41, and would have fished week 42 regardless of state action or in-action.

Let's keep the catch numbers in perspective folks. The QIN's took nearly 11K coho for the season. State nets took a whopping 1500. Hook and line took considerably more, but we'll have to wait for the CRC's in another year or two to know for sure.

If the state nets had closed week 43 completely, it would have saved a whopping 600-700 wild coho for the gravel. If recs had been closed a week earlier, it might have saved a couple hundred coho tops.

In the meantime QIN would have fished full speed ahead (and they most certainly did!). Bottom line, their week 42 fishery was worth 2700 wild coho to either totes or gravel. They opted for TOTES.

And once again, the gravel would lose because of this chronically dysfunctional relationship we euphemistically call CO-management.

A week later, we had no choice. Even though the state was still well within its harvest share of the updated run-size, we HAD to choose gravel. It was the only moral/ethical choice.... and mandated by policy. CONSERVATION FIRST!

However.....

REGARDLESS of whether or not the state flinched, e-goal for Chehalis wild coho was already in jeopardy. The only question is how much additional impact would the state have to suck up AFTER the other co-manager had already fished the stock BELOW escapement?

Unfortunately, there is NO specific guidance in the Commission policy for that tragic scenario.

Looks like #### crick this week.

I think someone posted they would like to see the reply to one of the ditty's I threw out so here it is.

Hi K--,

We currently aren’t expecting to meet escapement goal for wild coho in either the Humptulips Basin nor the Chehalis Basin. We tried to craft fisheries that would minimize impacts to wild stock while allowing access to hatchery coho. We also tried to craft fisheries that would be defensible in court as the Quinault Nation policy representative has indicated they would challenge these fisheries under US vs. Washington.

As to the bridge in question, it is below the state wildlife area. I’ve attached a map that will hopefully be of some help.



Also the actual date of the Region 6 reached out to the QIN Policy Level folks was October 22. Keep in mind the agency & QIN technical staff were communicating prior. In fact the QIN spreadsheet was needed to do a reboot on the preseason forecast as WDF&W's could not get the job done.


Hi --,

We have been looking at catch data to see if there is some information that might help us assess actual run-size of Chehalis Basin coho. There appears to be a fairly strong relationship between QIN catch per landing through week 42 and combined hatchery and wild run size. I believe it would be beneficial for state and tribal technical staff to review the relationship and offer some thoughts about what it might be telling us. I’ve attached a file showing that data and relationship.

Second, if technical staff find that there is merit in the relationship, or in any other data they may have, I think it might be worthwhile for us to engage in some discussion as early as possible. I would appreciate your consideration of the data and a potential discussion. If you are amenable to a call, is there a time that would work best for you?

Thank you.

Steve Thiesfeld

Frankly guys I think everyone is paying attention to what just happened and not what is about to happen. The late Coho & Steelhead are right a head and this dance should be interesting. My look at is captured in my testimony to the Commission I submitted.

November 13, 2015

Good morning Commissioners:


-------------------- today I wish to address two issues. The first issue is the total failure by WDF&W Fish Program staff to recognize and react properly to the collapse of the 2015 Coho returns. From the failure to recognize the poor ocean conditions ( NOAA PDO Forecast ) to the refusal to address the harvest indicators from June forward the 2015 harvest went on auto pilot to nearly the end of the run. In Grays Harbor it was particularly glaring but I do not regard it as a failure by any particular staffer but a complete system failure driven by culture of harvest first and at all cost that exist in WDF&W today. I urge the Commission to entertain the option of a third party independent review of the 2015 season setting process and management of the 2015 harvest. Simply put I doubt that staff have the ability to complete a open and frank look at the issue in a unbiased manner. The culture of harvest first is simply to ingrained in the agency to allow for such a process internally. I asked a former WDF&W staffer what on earth anyone could say to Director Unsworth to bring the issue forward and his reply was simple enough. Tell the Director when it comes to harvest and conservation " his dog don't hunt". I think that captures it Commissioners.

My second issue is one that shortly will confront users and staff in Grays Harbor. On December 1 the late Coho season is scheduled to start. This is a component of the GH Coho run that has the last vestiges of our Native Coho run. One must assume that it will perform similarly to the Normal timed run with the preseason prediction being totally wrong and reduced.

The fishery on Late Coho is primarily local and retired fishers. Due to the lower water temperatures and other environmental factors the Late Coho inriver sport fishery has the lowest C&R mortality that exist in any fishery. Even if numbers dictate extra protection for the Natural Origin Recruits ( NOR ) Late Coho several areas exist where little to no NOR Lates are present. This is primarily in the upper Chehalis Basin targeting the Skookumchuck Dam Mitigation Coho which utilizes a Late Coho stock. Other opportunities may or may not exist in the mainstem below Porter and on the Satsop but to accomplish this it would take a carefully thought out approach. This differs substantially from the recent reopening for Normal Timed Coho in the Chehalis Basin. To put it bluntly Region 6 manager Mr. Thiesfeld, the public, and the fish were poorly served by the ill advised and poorly constructed Coho season modifications by District 17 staff. From little access to the wrong fish being present it was and is little more than a attempt to deflect attention away from mismanagement of the fall salmon season by the co-managers.

To complicate matters the Quinault Indian Nation ( QIN ) Winter Steelhead season starts December 1 and Commissioners few Steelhead are present and it is a thinly disguised targeted Late Coho fishery. The December 1 start of the QIN Winter Steelhead season is product of the time before the joining of the old dept of Game & Dept of Fisheries into the current agency. The former Dept. of Game utilized out of basin early timed ( December returning ) plants to provide harvest for the QIN harvest and sport to a much smaller degree. The use of out of basin stock is a discredited practice that has since been stopped but the December 1 QIN opening for Winter Steelhead remains in place which in reality is harvesting 15 to 25 to Late Coho for each Steelhead caught until after December 25th. This can clearly be seen in the QIN 2014 landings. QIN 2014 In a year such as this there can be little doubt that the Late Coho run cannot sustain this level of harvest by the QIN fishers.

Additionally if one looks at the 2015 terminal Salmon season the vast majority of Coho and Chinook impacts were taken by the QIN commercial harvest followed by the Non Treaty Commercial harvest. That the QIN fisheries managers could and should have recognized the clear trend of a underperforming Coho return by week 40 ( September 27th ) and in the following weeks where the trend of a underperforming forecast was no longer a question is a given. If this information was not provided by the QIN to WDF&W Region 6 that is a failure of the QIN managers. If Region 6 staff did not follow the QIN harvest or request the landings numbers then that is a failure of the Region 6 staff. Documents I have indicate that it was not until October 22 after several days of Non Treaty Commercial harvest that Mr. Thiesfeld approached the QIN to address the issue and frankly the damage was way past done right to near not making escapement.

So Commissioners we are to the last fishery for Salmon in Grays Harbor in 2015. It is at risk due to a probable low return complicated by a QIN Winter Steelhead fishery that is in reality a targeted December Late Coho Fishery. To complicate the issue further is the inability for the co-managers to work together to monitor and manage harvest honestly and openly which is unacceptable. Commissioners if the Co-managers cannot even turn loose of a relic of the past such as the QIN December Steelhead season that is not a Steelhead season then I seriously doubt one should have much hope that the array of complicated issues we face will be resolved.

In closing Commissioners let me say that this thing where Region 6 and the QIN's inability to work in a organized coherent manner should not be used as a tool to continue to abuse the inland recreational fisher and just as importantly the fish. We have options to carefully craft the Late Coho season for the inland Chehalis Basin citizens but the question is does WDF&W Region 6 ( and the QIN ) have the ability to work with knowledgeable citizens to get it done? History says nope and Commissioners this is a issue that has to be resolved prior to December 1st.

Back in the day, pre-season planning meant developing in-season updates that used commercial catch (catch per landing generally) and utilized Indian, non-Indian, or both-depending on which worked best. Further, models were developed for each week of the fishery, so long as accuracy of the model improved.

As Doc noted, it does require actually fishing and killing fish to implement.

But, the critics point is that it was done pre-season. Development started in December/January and was completed (with State/Tribal agreement) way before any net fishing started.

To start looking unto updates after the fish hit the river is not the way competent management should be conducted.

I took the 2010-2014 five-year average of the June, July and August Coho harvest and divided it by the 2015 average for the same months and came up with this year’s harvest of Coho was down app. 96% over the five year average.

Why wouldn't that translate into the terminal areas?

One would have to be blind in one eye and can’t see out of the other to recognize that the Coho had an extremely poor showing this year in the ocean areas at an early time frame.

LL, your point is? WDFW really seems to have no interest in in-season management. For whatever reason, and WDFW won't answer the question, is that they and the co-managers have adopted an auto-pilot management paradigm. There may be good reasons but they actually need to put them in front of the license-buying public. If, in fact, they care a whit about what the license-buying public thinks.

Auto-pilot is fine as long as the season is unfolding as expected. But it didn't, so it wasn't. Hence the motivation to pursue an in-season update. I believe the in-season update in 2015 is the state's first attempt at doing so in the past 2 decades.

Only one co-manager was bold enough to actually put a number on the table in week 43 after tallying all the available catches thru week 42. The state fisheries were promptly adjusted. The other co-manager saw no conservation concern at that time. A week later they changed their minds.

I believe when Doc brought up in season management at one of the NOF meetings, RW asked him "and who's going to pay for it Francis, are you?" There's your answer. I'm actually encouraged that they stepped in when they did. It wasn't enough, but it was better than what usually happens which is nothing.