New dog and renewed desire to hunt some release site birds. Older guns (12 ga Rem 870 full and 12 ga Higgins with choke tubes). Both chambered for 2 3/4" shotshells. Either of these shotguns would work fine with lead shot for eastern WA wild birds. Non-toxic loads are required on all WA release sites. Considering the chamber and choke of the above shotguns, is there a satisfactory non-toxic shell for westside pheasant hunting? A new 870 barrel at $260+ is probably not an option. Any suggestions? Thanks.

#6 Bismuth or Federal Vintage Doulbles



Spendy but will work perfectly and it isn't like you're going to go through more than ten rounds. There can be lots of pressure but weekdays and afternoons cleaning up the smarter escapees can be really fun.


Good luck.

You got a modified or IC choke for the Higgins?

Both, but the Higgins is an early/mid fifties gun. Early steel loads could bulge an older barrel with choke tubes. Not sure about today's steel loads. Hate to take a chance since this is an inherited gun.

A single bismuth shell costs about as much as a Costco roast chicken. Thinking about buying a service jacket for my Brittany, then letting her come into Costco with me to help pick a chicken out of the hot case.

Tungsten Matrix is 32.99 for a box of ten at Cabelas. Not sure if they have it in stock but Sportsmans or Sportco might. Everything else is even more expensive.


Just depends how much you want to use that particular firearm. I think $40 is worth an afternoon of fun.



Good luck

Hevi-shot is one of the non steel alternatives. Works fine.

Yes Sir... That is true but only Classic Doubles is safe in vintage firearms.

I had the same problem. Bismuth was the answer. Albeit a super spendy one at that. Short term I recommend Bismuth. Long term, it would be cheaper to save up and buy a modern gun if you plan on shooting a lot. Good luck,

I appreciate the input from all who responded to my question. Stopped by Cabela's to look at ammo options. No bismuth or tungsten matrix in stock. No Classic Doubles. Lotsa lead and steel. NickD90, you're right about a new gun, or at least a new barrel being the best long term solution. You would pay for a barrel quickly, when the alternative is shooting $4.00 a shell non-toxics.

Add an $80 Westside pheasant permit and $4.00 per gallon gas to the cost of ammo; soon only ascot wearing hunters will be able to participate in the sport. Hopefully, they'll use the hackle of their kill to tie Carey Specials...

I have a box of #4 bismuth for ducks laying about if you can't find anything in the stores. You are welcome to it. #4 is a little big for Roosters, so just let em' get out there a bit first...

shooting some #2 or #4 steel through that remington isn't going to hurt it at all. at the range you're probably going to be shooting wind up birds at, it'll probably be as effective as you'll need.

I'd like to shoot some steel thru it, but a 30" fully choked barrel is a poor choice for steel loads. Even Hevi-shot advises against it. Neither gun is rated for steel. 2 3/4" Hevi-shot Classic Doubles should work in the Higgins provided a modified, or IC tube was used. Finding that ammo is another problem.

Nick, thanks for your offer. Still looking at options.

My dog is 9 1/2 yrs old. She missed last season going thru rescue/adoption. The season before, she was nursing her last litter. She's fairly fit and wants to run big now, but may only have a hunting season or two left. That's really my motivation for getting out there.

i'm finding myself in a similar situation. I bought my daughter a stevens .410 bore sxs. 1965 manufacture, full choke. someone had pinnacle bismuth shells available last year and I bought the 3 boxes they had. now they're apparently no longer available. rio makes bismuth in 12 and 20 and maybe some others, but not .410. i think when the shells run out, I'll likely have to buy a new gun. nice shot might be an alternative for reloaders, but it's $40/lb!


good luck out there

willy

cedar,

check here:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=70

a quick review showed that an 870 mod barrel sold for about $80 a little while ago.

lcwilly, thanks for the link. Never looked at that website; some informative discussions going on there.

Two conflicting bits of info on the 870s. Both offered up by the manufacturer. One states all 870s since 1950 are safe to use steel shot, BUT only if the barrel is choked modified or less restricted. Remington also says it's OK to shoot steel in barrels fully choked and manufactured after 1960. Depends on who is answering the phone that day... kinda like the IRS.

Some gun owners state they would NEVER shoot steel thru their fully choked gun. Others say they been doing so for years. Makes for interesting reading.

.410 Classic Doubles Hevishot is at Sportco for $34.47

12ga 2 3/4 #6 for $44.99 which is almost crazy.

Thanks! I googled the bejesus out of that one. Completely forgot about sportco. At $3.50 a shell, I'm probably heading in the direction of a new gun, perhaps.
Cedar, if you get up this way and want to hunt crescent lake or cherry valley, I have a benelli nova pump you can use




Willy

Appreciate your offer. Will try to find some 2 3/4" RIO bismuth 12 ga nearby. Those will work in either of my shotguns. I have two full boxes of Sears
2 1/2" Max Load 410 shells. They're high base, plastic, and loaded with #6 lead shot. If you want them for your daughter's gun, I'll give them to you. They would be fine for target shooting, grouse hunting, or rodent control. PM me if you want them. We will figure out a way to get them to you.