The conversation is about whether or not flossing is legal. You seem to want to make it about me. I'm not interested. Feel free to continue this conversation with the WDFW - so far flossing still exists all along the west coast so somehow it must still be legal.

so far flossing still exists all along the west coast so somehow it must still be legal.

so far flossing still exists all along the west coast so somehow it must still be legal.

Don't want to start an argument because this has been beaten to death elsewhere, but until you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the fish did not voluntarily take the offering (i.e. bead, corkie, etc.) then the method remains legal. Most are likely flossed as you assert, but there is a small percentage that hit the offering willingly. That being the case, you can't call it illegal. Not arguing one side or the other - just pointing out why the method remains legal in CA along with OR and WA.

You are missing the point. In California it is illegal and the site is promoting illegal fishing.

From their fishing regulations:

1.05. ANGLING.
To take fish by hook and line with the line held in
the hand, or with the line attached to a pole or
rod held in the hand or closely attended in such
manner that the fish voluntarily takes the bait or
lure in its mouth

Easy argument - My shiny line is my lure.

Flossing has an appropriate place in the eyes of many and that seems to be sockeye fisheries. Sure sockeye will eat, but it's way easier to floss em and fill the freezer and that's what 99.9% of sockeye fisherman are after, subsistence.

Sportsmanlike? Depends on how you define the word I suppose. There is a line between subsisting and sport certainly and I firmly believe the resource needs to be treated with respect regardless. I also firmly believe in the fundamental importance of both sport and subsistence, sustainability being the important concept in each case.

I floss sockeye and help others to do the same and am not afraid to admit it. Why in my mind this is ok for one fish but entirely unethical for others? I am not quite sure. Justify it how you will; they don't bite, there are so many, etc.

A few points on fishing vs. flossing.

First, the techniques are entirely different though to the untrained eye they can appear similar. Drift fishing, when done well, should try to mimick a natural (current speed) relatively drag free presentation of something that fish is naturally inclined to chew on.

Flossing, when done well, should try to target fish in a specific position (traveling or holding) with line and leader at strategic depths and angles so as to allow the angler to manipulate terminal tackle to achieve expressed purpose of getting groceries hooked in a "legal" area. What does "in the mouth" mean anyhow? What is on the end of the line, besides a hook of course, is of little importance as long as strategic line and leader depths, speeds, and orientations are met.

The differences are painfully obvious to any fisherman and we all know, or should at least, what it is we are trying to do. Unfortunately many charged with enforcing anti-snagging regulations arent fisherman, at least to the point of being able see the differences between fishing and snagging with a drift rig and/or trying to explain the differences from a "legal" standpoint.

To fisherman, anyone that cant tell the difference between a flossed hook up and a naturally accepted offering I say you are an unskilled and/or inexperienced angler. The differences are so obvious they they really can't be missed if you pay attention to the details, as any fisherman worth his salt does. The devil is in them after all.

Setting angler input or methodology aside for a moment, the way a fish behaves after it is hooked is entirely different from a fish that has taken voluntarily vs. one that has been snagged. One fish has been up to something else entirely (resting or moving) with a fairly focused agenda whilst the other has chosen to bite something and is surprised that this thing has a life of it's own.

Getting to know your quarry, it's moods, mindsets and behaviors is a big part of being successful in fishing and elsewhere. If to you fishing is just chucking a line out there and then now and again something pulls back, there is more to it mate. With greater investment comes greater reward.

Once upon a time I'd would have said there are flosserman and fisherman and that's it, but unfortunately it's not that simple. I now realize there are those that have been shown the wrong way and that know no other other methods. There are those that know and abide by better standards for the most part but comprise for food, clients, friends, and fun. There are purists that hold themselves and others to standards that would draw lines between one form of ethical fishing and another.

My current fishing venue is a perfect example of the culture clash that can exist in the steelheading world. For the last few days I've been kicking around steelhead streams in Alaska rubbing elbows with folks that only know how to catch a fish using the kenai flip and rip with a "coho" fly. Then there are those that will only fish an unweighted fly on a floating fly line. Finally there's a few more of us somewhere in the middle.

In the end who is right? Maybe we are all wrong. How can you love something to death anyhow.

I caught a steelhead today, a few in fact,. They are majestic creatures. It was a good day. They all ate what I showed them and I feel good about that. I hope I have a few more days like today down the road. More that that, I hope others are able to enjoy the same sort of days long after I am gone.

Flossing has an appropriate place in the eyes of many and that seems to be sockeye fisheries. Sure sockeye will eat, but it's way easier to floss em and fill the freezer and that's what 99.9% of sockeye fisherman are after, subsistence.

Sportsmanlike? Depends on how you define the word I suppose. There is a line between subsisting and sport certainly and I firmly believe the resource needs to be treated with respect regardless. I also firmly believe in the fundamental importance of both sport and subsistence, sustainability being the important concept in each case.

I floss sockeye and help others to do the same and am not afraid to admit it. Why in my mind this is ok for one fish but entirely unethical for others? I am not quite sure. Justify it how you will; they don't bite, there are so many, etc.

A few points on fishing vs. flossing.

First, the techniques are entirely different though to the untrained eye they can appear similar. Drift fishing, when done well, should try to mimick a natural (current speed) relatively drag free presentation of something that fish is naturally inclined to chew on.

Flossing, when done well, should try to target fish in a specific position (traveling or holding) with line and leader at strategic depths and angles so as to allow the angler to manipulate terminal tackle to achieve expressed purpose of getting groceries hooked in a "legal" area. What does "in the mouth" mean anyhow? What is on the end of the line, besides a hook of course, is of little importance as long as strategic line and leader depths, speeds, and orientations are met.

The differences are painfully obvious to any fisherman and we all know, or should at least, what it is we are trying to do. Unfortunately many charged with enforcing anti-snagging regulations arent fisherman, at least to the point of being able see the differences between fishing and snagging with a drift rig and/or trying to explain the differences from a "legal" standpoint.

To fisherman, anyone that cant tell the difference between a flossed hook up and a naturally accepted offering I say you are an unskilled and/or inexperienced angler. The differences are so obvious they they really can't be missed if you pay attention to the details, as any fisherman worth his salt does. The devil is in them after all.

Setting angler input or methodology aside for a moment, the way a fish behaves after it is hooked is entirely different from a fish that has taken voluntarily vs. one that has been snagged. One fish has been up to something else entirely (resting or moving) with a fairly focused agenda whilst the other has chosen to bite something and is surprised that this thing has a life of it's own.

Getting to know your quarry, it's moods, mindsets and behaviors is a big part of being successful in fishing and elsewhere. If to you fishing is just chucking a line out there and then now and again something pulls back, there is more to it mate. With greater investment comes greater reward.

Once upon a time I'd would have said there are flosserman and fisherman and that's it, but unfortunately it's not that simple. I now realize there are those that have been shown the wrong way and that know no other other methods. There are those that know and abide by better standards for the most part but comprise for food, clients, friends, and fun. There are purists that hold themselves and others to standards that would draw lines between one form of ethical fishing and another.

My current fishing venue is a perfect example of the culture clash that can exist in the steelheading world. For the last few days I've been kicking around steelhead streams in Alaska rubbing elbows with folks that only know how to catch a fish using the kenai flip and rip with a "coho" fly. Then there are those that will only fish an unweighted fly on a floating fly line. Finally there's a few more of us somewhere in the middle.

In the end who is right? Maybe we are all wrong. How can you love something to death anyhow.

I caught a steelhead today, a few in fact,. They are majestic creatures. It was a good day. They all ate what I showed them and I feel good about that. I hope I have a few more days like today down the road. More that that, I hope others are able to enjoy the same sort of days long after I am gone.

That argument is easy, but it is also unbelievable, and it is not true in flossing instances that the fish voluntarily takes the line into its mouth.

How about a law saying float fishing only in terminal hatchery zones (flossing holes)?

They did the suspended lure rule on the Samish River so they can do it anywhere.

I realize that one can still floss with a float, I see it in British Columbia all the time, but at least it is much more difficult and totally ineffective most places.